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I dont buy the "oh you ruin their confidence thing"

 

There are legit reasons not to call someone up too early, if they arent physically mature and may get hurt.  If they are not ready and you cant give them ice time etc...

 

But i dont buy the confidence thing.  It takes a certain mentality to succeed in the league.  Everyone from mcdavid to crosby to the 4th liners have bad games and slumps but they get confidence back.  If you come up early, struggle and never get confidence, you didnt have the makeup to be an nhler and it would have been exposed at a later date when you slumped.

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...   I will be in my room and wish to not be disturbed.  

I think he will have a long NHL career ... but as a 5,6,7 on an average team.  If he gets in a top 4 again, it’s because it’s a crap team.  He isn’t more than an injury fill-in on a top tier team. 

Asked by Arpon Basu if there was a trade market for Victor Mete at all Bergevin said, "Ya, I was offered a first round pick but I figured I should just put him on waivers."   ... "So that's

11 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I dont buy the "oh you ruin their confidence thing"

 

There are legit reasons not to call someone up too early, if they arent physically mature and may get hurt.  If they are not ready and you cant give them ice time etc...

 

But i dont buy the confidence thing.  It takes a certain mentality to succeed in the league.  Everyone from mcdavid to crosby to the 4th liners have bad games and slumps but they get confidence back.  If you come up early, struggle and never get confidence, you didnt have the makeup to be an nhler and it would have been exposed at a later date when you slumped.

 

Yes and no. Confidence generally comes from having some success and creating the feeling that you can do this. If you bring some guys up too early then they might never have success and develop confidence. Some guys are so mentally tough (ie. Gallagher) that it's hard to ruin them by bringing them up too early, others need to be brought along more slowly. I think a guy like Caufield has been so successful at every level that he is ready, physically and mentally.  Becoming an NHL player is a process and some take longer to figure it out. 

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5 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Yes and no. Confidence generally comes from having some success and creating the feeling that you can do this. If you bring some guys up too early then they might never have success and develop confidence. Some guys are so mentally tough (ie. Gallagher) that it's hard to ruin them by bringing them up too early, others need to be brought along more slowly. I think a guy like Caufield has been so successful at every level that he is ready, physically and mentally.  Becoming an NHL player is a process and some take longer to figure it out. 

 

Just look at Pacioretty.  If you have the talent, then you can get the confidence back and still be a good NHL player.  Or Jack Hughes last year in New Jersey. Or any number of players who struggled as rookies and still became good players. 

 

Carey Price had the same thing.

 

If you come up too soon, struggle, get less minutes or sent back down, recover and come back up again.  Talent rises to the top.

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4 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Just look at Pacioretty.  If you have the talent, then you can get the confidence back and still be a good NHL player.  Or Jack Hughes last year in New Jersey. Or any number of players who struggled as rookies and still became good players. 

Maxpac also said that he would rather be playing in the minors than be deployed the way he was in the NHL.  

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7 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Just look at Pacioretty.  If you have the talent, then you can get the confidence back and still be a good NHL player.  Or Jack Hughes last year in New Jersey. Or any number of players who struggled as rookies and still became good players. 

 

Carey Price had the same thing.

 

If you come up too soon, struggle, get less minutes or sent back down, recover and come back up again.  Talent rises to the top.

 

It's easier if you have talent, no question but there are ton's of examples of talented guys who never made it. I could provide a list of #1 overall picks who weren't ready but because they were a high draft pick the team felt a need to play them right away rather than spending a year in the minors (heaven forbid). Every player has a different mental makeup and in my opinion you can ruin their confidence by bringing them along too quickly. You have to be able to walk before you can run. I think McDavid went straight from crawling to running though. 

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44 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

It's easier if you have talent, no question but there are ton's of examples of talented guys who never made it. I could provide a list of #1 overall picks who weren't ready but because they were a high draft pick the team felt a need to play them right away rather than spending a year in the minors (heaven forbid). Every player has a different mental makeup and in my opinion you can ruin their confidence by bringing them along too quickly. You have to be able to walk before you can run. I think McDavid went straight from crawling to running though. 

There’s also tons of examples of guys who started with a bang and went out with a whimper.  Yakapov started great, had the talent, but once things went south it was too late to correct.  Galchenyuk is another guy from the same draft that could have benefited to be on the minors earlier in his career than later. It’s easy to say talented elite players will find a way not to get “ruined”, by shrugging of the players rushed in and ended up failing as simply not being good enough.  
 

for the most part Tampa has taken a different approach while Yzerman was there. Palat spent almost two years in the minors and is a solid player. Johnson was a teammate of his in the minors and became more productive than any centre we had since  Koivu. Point was not in the NHL until he was 20 or 21 and at the time came up with really no expectations of transforming a PP, or replacing Stamkos (or in our case Gallagher). He also had a short stint n the minors. Kucherov also had a stint in the minors.

Yzerman is not rushing any of his recent picks into the NHL. I’d rather take that approach than what the habs have done under Gainey and MB.

 

the McDavids and Crosby’s are the exceptions not the norm.  Jack Hughes could have also benefited from spending a year in college like his brother did. Maybe he’d be a better player this year. Maybe he’d be the same. A player is not going to be hurt by extra development time if they aren’t a Crosby or McDavid. However, they can be hurt by it. Some players will get over early failure easier than others. Simply saying elite players have the drive to get over slumps ignore the fact that we are talking about 18-21 year olds.
 

I get we are talking about highly skilled athletes. They all have to have a certain level of mental toughness and resolve to get where they are along with their skill. Some also have greater god given hockey sense that can’t be taught. Others need to learn how to play without the puck at the higher level, where they can’t just get by skill alone. Expecting that just because someone has been an elite athlete up to know and has beat the odds based on their size, and they will overcome slumps to succeed on talent alone overlooks the fact that we are still talking about 18-21 year old kids.

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51 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

It's easier if you have talent, no question but there are ton's of examples of talented guys who never made it. I could provide a list of #1 overall picks who weren't ready but because they were a high draft pick the team felt a need to play them right away rather than spending a year in the minors (heaven forbid). Every player has a different mental makeup and in my opinion you can ruin their confidence by bringing them along too quickly. You have to be able to walk before you can run. I think McDavid went straight from crawling to running though. 

 

Yes every player has a different mental makeup. 

 

But if they struggle at 19/20, and then can NEVER get their confidence back, then they didn't have the mental makeup necessary to succeed in the NHL despite the fact they had talent IMO.

 

That lack of confidence would eventually sink them.  At some point in their career they will struggle and if it happens at 20 or at 22... its still going to be something they don't have the mental makeup to recover from.

 

Mental makeup is part of talent and why 1/100,000 kids who play hockey make the NHL. 

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i apologize if this was already answered but to be honest i did not read the whole post. 

What happens "IF" Mete goes unclaimed? Does he go to Laval, and at what cost? It would help a solid Laval team and maybe build up his confidence. 

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Just now, Gordie09 said:

i apologize if this was already answered but to be honest i did not read the whole post. 

What happens "IF" Mete goes unclaimed? Does he go to Laval, and at what cost? It would help a solid Laval team and maybe build up his confidence. 

 

If unclaimed, there are three options:

 

1) Stays on Montreal's active roster

2) Assigned to the taxi squad (salary comes off the cap)

3) Assigned to Laval (salary comes off the cap)

 

As Mete is on a one-way deal, he gets his full salary regardless of the scenario.

 

If it was to happen, I think he'd be sent to the taxi squad.

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3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Yes every player has a different mental makeup. 

 

But if they struggle at 19/20, and then can NEVER get their confidence back, then they didn't have the mental makeup necessary to succeed in the NHL despite the fact they had talent IMO.

 

That lack of confidence would eventually sink them.  At some point in their career they will struggle and if it happens at 20 or at 22... its still going to be something they don't have the mental makeup to recover from.

 

Mental makeup is part of talent and why 1/100,000 kids who play hockey make the NHL. 

I agree that mental makeup is one of the essential elements for success.  How teams develop those players plays a big role in helping shape their mental makeup. The habs letting and enabling  Ribeiro’s entitlement attitude at a young age, PROBABLY played a role in the kind of person he was (he was a dick all on his own, but handing a local French kid the keys to the city at 18, or 19, certainly didn’t help matters).  

 

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3 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

If unclaimed, there are three options:

 

1) Stays on Montreal's active roster

2) Assigned to the taxi squad (salary comes off the cap)

3) Assigned to Laval (salary comes off the cap)

 

As Mete is on a one-way deal, he gets his full salary regardless of the scenario.

 

If it was to happen, I think he'd be sent to the taxi squad.

I can’t see him being left unclaimed.  Hell, if I was a GM, I’d take a flier on him.

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31 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I agree that mental makeup is one of the essential elements for success.  How teams develop those players plays a big role in helping shape their mental makeup. The habs letting and enabling  Ribeiro’s entitlement attitude at a young age, PROBABLY played a role in the kind of person he was (he was a dick all on his own, but handing a local French kid the keys to the city at 18, or 19, certainly didn’t help matters).  

 

 

I think we all agree mental makeup is important and having the right mental makeup will help you develop your talents to the fullest. I also agree about entitlement,  if players have to work for a spot by spending time and working hard  in the minors then they will develop an appreciation for hard work (no different than any other job, sometimes you have to pay your dues).   

 

I think a smart organization recognizes when a player needs time to mature.  Some players get ruined because they are rushed before they are ready, some players need a little time to develop mental toughness and need time to mature  away from the glare of the media. One glaring example for me (I am dating myself here) is Greg Joly. I thought he was one of the best junior players I ever saw.  He was terrific. Washington drafted him #1 overall (they were a bad bad team) and Milt Schmidt the GM referred to him as the next Bobby Orr (no pressure).  Was Greg Joly not tough enough mentally?  Maybe  However if he had been able to develop at a slower pace with a better team than maybe he would have been able to develop the way he should.  I can't believe he turned into nothing more than a journeyman NHL defenceman.  It's a sad story. One of the best junior players I ever saw. 

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How much time is left? An hour and a half until we know if Mete got claimed or not?

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6 minutes ago, bbp said:

How much time is left? An hour and a half until we know if Mete got claimed or not?

 

We'll know at noon EST.

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1 minute ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

So Reilly for Mete and a 3rd

 

I’m just glad Mete is gone since he didn’t bring anything to the table other than a place holder. 

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I wouldn't write off Mete so quickly like some on this forum.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a long NHL career, and eventually be a solid second-pairing guy.  Either way we mismanaged the hell out of this asset. 

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I was hoping that Mete would play well enough to at least have some trade value. Oh well. This is addition by subtraction as Montreal gains some cap space and frees up a contract slot. 

 

I'm hopeful that there will be another move by Bergevin but I'm not sure it will be a big one. 

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5 minutes ago, Neech said:

I wouldn't write off Mete so quickly like some on this forum.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a long NHL career, and eventually be a solid second-pairing guy.  Either way we mismanaged the hell out of this asset. 

 

I agree, Mete's development was handled badly. 

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14 minutes ago, Neech said:

I wouldn't write off Mete so quickly like some on this forum.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a long NHL career, and eventually be a solid second-pairing guy.  Either way we mismanaged the hell out of this asset. 

I think he will have a long NHL career ... but as a 5,6,7 on an average team.  If he gets in a top 4 again, it’s because it’s a crap team. 
He isn’t more than an injury fill-in on a top tier team. 

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Did we mishandle Mete's development? Of course. He should have had to work his way up, not be handed a lineup spot and then left to flounder.

 

That said, the Habs' D has been pretty much sh*t for a half-decade, and still has serious limitations; yet Mete has failed to carve out a regular roster spot for himself, despite the Habs practically begging him to do so. We gave him a HUGE opportunity and he played his way out of it. So he gets a big "meh" from me.

 

I do not believe he will ever be more than a bottom-pairing guy - the real question is whether he is even that. I would not be surprised if he gets a ton of ice in Ottawa, but in 2-3 years finds himself back on the outside looking in, after OTT improves enough to make him redundant.

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