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Apr 14. Flames vs Canadiens, 7PM


Trizzak

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3 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

I agree ... but at this point this year is all anyone is suggesting ... the overall defence is a matter for this summer ... not that I expect much to get done by Bergevin given the top 4 are all his choices, but it is a separate discussion for a different time.

 

I’m just saying that while there is room for improvement from our S, resting guys like Weber isn’t going to have a significant impact on the remainder of this season or playoffs. It’s going to take elite goaltending, better defensive play from our forward group and improved consistency and productivity from our young centres is that is going to be essential for success.

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8 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Are you comfortable going into next year with a status quo other than the hope (which makes a lousy strategy), that those kids are ready? At least with KK and Suzuki coming into this year, they had some NHL experience. From the young D, Romanov is the only one who’s gotten his feet wet in pro hockey - and he’s not ready for a significant role. 


yes, I am because finally we are seeing results in Laval and the young prospects at the NHL level are ok not stars but decent NHLers

 

Also the Habs have managed the cap well and have a lot of picks coming up ,

 

with the pending UFAs and the draft picks, they can either some/all UFAs walk and sign another UFA that fits a need ( top 4 puck moving LD) and sign some of their UFAs worth keeping (Danault as a 3C)

 

the way the roster is built , the Habs have flexibility in signing a couple of their own UFAs before the expansion draft too

 

over all, I think the situation is progressing well despite this season frustrating inconsistency : PATIENCE 

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28 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

over all, I think the situation is progressing well despite this season frustrating inconsistency : PATIENCE 

Boring, come on, need zanzy ideas and knee jerk reaction good or bad after every game.:hammer:

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4 minutes ago, DON said:

Boring, come on, need zanzy ideas and knee jerk reaction good or bad after every game.:hammer:

Granted , it is more engertaining to have a Daly dose of that

 

I’ll take an order of that with some wings and a cold draft please 🍺

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45 minutes ago, DON said:

Boring, come on, need zanzy ideas and knee jerk reaction good or bad after every game.:hammer:


This thinking was my point about the leafs getting serious. 
 

They sold that stuff to their fan base for a long time too - selling hope. Despite all their hope and upcoming prospects the leafs toiled in mediocrity for decades just like we are now. 
 

🙈

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


This thinking was my point about the leafs getting serious. 
 

They sold that stuff to their fan base for a long time too - selling hope. Despite all their hope and upcoming prospects the leafs toiled in mediocrity for decades just like we are now. 
 

🙈

If you want to share your admiration for the Leafs, just say so

 

I don’t share that view. Without Matthews they would not be this close to contending , their other top players are really good but not Crosby/Ovechkin good

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14 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

 

It’s a different issue on defence. Weber is no longer a top pairing defence and I don’t see him getting better - he’s probably going to get worse. Sure he’ll have some good games, but at this stage of his career he’ll have more bad games than good ones. Lafleur looked great in his last season or two in that game against the habs when he scored two. The birds weren’t expecting him to be able to be the man, even though he’d show traces of that old superstar every now and again. Weber is not a top pairing dman anymore - it’s why I didn’t like the Subban deal (but trying to rehash the debate in the trade - just making the point on investing heavily on older players in a league that is getting younger. Subban also has regressed as he’s aged, even at a younger age than Weber did. Karlsson also has regressed in San Jose).

Maybe Weber can pull a Giordano  and win a Norris at 35yo with a 74pts season  after some 39-38 points seasons...  Who knows ?

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6 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

Maybe Weber can pull a Giordano  and win a Norris at 35yo with a 74pts season  after some 39-38 points seasons...  Who knows ?

Eternal optimist, love it.:clap: 

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26 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

Maybe Weber can pull a Giordano  and win a Norris at 35yo with a 74pts season  after some 39-38 points seasons...  Who knows ?

 

19 minutes ago, DON said:

Eternal optimist, love it.:clap: 

Optimist is an understatement but it would be tremendous ... although I recognize his declining skills/performance I am a fan ... 

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34 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... I don’t share that view. Without Matthews they would not be this close to contending , their other top players are really good but not Crosby/Ovechkin good

That's like saying the Avalanche wouldn't be the same without MacKinnon ... that Pittsburgh wouldn't be the same without Crosby or the caps without Ovechkin ... it is true, but the fact is they do and that is today's reality.

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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:


yes, I am because finally we are seeing results in Laval and the young prospects at the NHL level are ok not stars but decent NHLers

 

Also the Habs have managed the cap well and have a lot of picks coming up ,

 

with the pending UFAs and the draft picks, they can either some/all UFAs walk and sign another UFA that fits a need ( top 4 puck moving LD) and sign some of their UFAs worth keeping (Danault as a 3C)

 

the way the roster is built , the Habs have flexibility in signing a couple of their own UFAs before the expansion draft too

 

over all, I think the situation is progressing well despite this season frustrating inconsistency : PATIENCE 

Patience only works if you aren’t expecting Price, petry and Weber to part of your core.  If you expect either of these 3 to be a factor when some of the prospects are ready, than sure patience can pay off. Personally, I think Weber should be moved in the summer, price as well if possible. Petry probably has two good years.

 

I don’t see either being a factor in the three years that some of these players MAY make become impact players. In which case they need to be as good as Petry and Weber USED to be, and Premieau better be ready to take over from Peice. If the strategy is to be patient and wait 3 years until we can legitimately be a contender, why are we still hanging into Weber, Price and Petry, rather than moving them for other assets that will be impact players in 3 years time???

MB is trying to win now (his job depends on it), could be lame duck next year or fired. I’m hoping it’s the latter. If we are trying to win within the Price and Petry window (I think Weber is done), we need legit proven top dmen next year. I don’t see anyone in our prospect pool that can step in the way Makar or Hughes did and be an immediate impact next year.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

If you want to share your admiration for the Leafs, just say so

 

I don’t share that view. Without Matthews they would not be this close to contending , their other top players are really good but not Crosby/Ovechkin good

Because they realized that trading water was t good enough, tanked. Held their good prospects back and kept them out of the the tanking environment and tanked when they knew their was a stud prospect to tank for. Had Burke still been there they’d still be trying to go the Wendell Clark truculent route and drafted Hanafin over Marner.

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1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

Maybe Weber can pull a Giordano  and win a Norris at 35yo with a 74pts season  after some 39-38 points seasons...  Who knows ?

Maybe my aunt like become my uncle if she grew a pair. I like her chances Over Weber or even Petry winning a Norris.

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3 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Because they realized that trading water was t good enough, tanked. Held their good prospects back and kept them out of the the tanking environment and tanked when they knew their was a stud prospect to tank for.

... and got lucky in the lottery.

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3 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

... and got lucky in the lottery.

Yes. But if you are going to tank, it’s better to do it with McDavid or Matthews as the potential prize, than failing for Nail.

If you ask me Buffalo also got lucky with at least getting Eichal. Their issue is that they have such a friggin horrible ow ownership and Mgmt team that even if they had drafted McDavid they would still suck. They made a one good move (ROR), and than managed to Fxck that up pretty badly as well.

 

regardlwss if winning/losing lottery you still need a good management team to build and develop the team - something Buffalo and the oilers under Lowe and McTavish were clueless about. 

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56 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Because they realized that trading water was t good enough, tanked. Held their good prospects back and kept them out of the the tanking environment and tanked when they knew their was a stud prospect to tank for. Had Burke still been there they’d still be trying to go the Wendell Clark truculent route and drafted Hanafin over Marner.


Yes this is my point. The leafs eventually came to the place where they got serious. 
 

For the Habs we have an expiring core with no suitable replacements in our system. Our prospects our not top line except maybe Caufield. Our defence needs to be rebuilt and our D prospects are a long ways off. 
 

Habs need some tough and business focused moves but I don’t think we are serious enough yet. We will keep pointing to our modest prospects and sell hope. 

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Patience only works if you aren’t expecting Price, petry and Weber to part of your core.  If you expect either of these 3 to be a factor when some of the prospects are ready, than sure patience can pay off. Personally, I think Weber should be moved in the summer, price as well if possible. Petry probably has two good years.

 

I don’t see either being a factor in the three years that some of these players MAY make become impact players. In which case they need to be as good as Petry and Weber USED to be, and Premieau better be ready to take over from Peice. If the strategy is to be patient and wait 3 years until we can legitimately be a contender, why are we still hanging into Weber, Price and Petry, rather than moving them for other assets that will be impact players in 3 years time???

MB is trying to win now (his job depends on it), could be lame duck next year or fired. I’m hoping it’s the latter. If we are trying to win within the Price and Petry window (I think Weber is done), we need legit proven top dmen next year. I don’t see anyone in our prospect pool that can step in the way Makar or Hughes did and be an immediate impact next year.

 

Yes, the idea that "our prospects will turn us into contenders if only we have patience" seems sketchy to me when the elite talent in the organization is all about 35 years old. Suzuki, KK, Romanov, and CC are all well and good, but if those were the best prospects in anyone else's organization we would probably not be saying "oh just wait three years and they will be a killer team," especially when the key cogs of the team's current core are so elderly.

 

Vancouver is an interesting point of contrast. They have a legit young star #1 C in Pettersson; a legit young stud #1 D in Hughes; a legit #1 youngish scoring winger in Boeser; a legit young-ish stud 2-way C in Horvat; and a quality young G in Demko.

 

In other words, Van is an example of a franchise that actually has elite young players at key positions.
 

It is not in fact clear that the Habs can match this configuration at any point. Suzuki *may* become as good as Petterson but so far he isn't. KK may become as good as Horvat but so far he isn't. Caulfield may become as good as or better than Boeser, or he may never come near that level. As for D and G, nope. Our main advantage over Van is that we have not poured millions in cap space into utterly useless veterans.

 

Unless we win in the next year or two, we'll be looking at the post-Weber/Price era and probably watching another decade of teams which range from "pretty good" to "mediocre" to "execrable," just as we have done for the past 30 years. More of the same.

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26 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yes, the idea that "our prospects will turn us into contenders if only we have patience" seems sketchy to me when the elite talent in the organization is all about 35 years old. Suzuki, KK, Romanov, and CC are all well and good, but if those were the best prospects in anyone else's organization we would probably not be saying "oh just wait three years and they will be a killer team," especially when the key cogs of the team's current core are so elderly.

 

Vancouver is an interesting point of contrast. They have a legit young star #1 C in Pettersson; a legit young stud #1 D in Hughes; a legit #1 youngish scoring winger in Boeser; a legit young-ish stud 2-way C in Horvat; and a quality young G in Demko.

 

In other words, Van is an example of a franchise that actually has elite young players at key positions.
 

It is not in fact clear that the Habs can match this configuration at any point. Suzuki *may* become as good as Petterson but so far he isn't. KK may become as good as Horvat but so far he isn't. Caulfield may become as good as or better than Boeser, or he may never come near that level. As for D and G, nope. Our main advantage over Van is that we have not poured millions in cap space into utterly useless veterans.

 

Unless we win in the next year or two, we'll be looking at the post-Weber/Price era and probably watching another decade of teams which range from "pretty good" to "mediocre" to "execrable," just as we have done for the past 30 years. More of the same.


Good post that articulates my argument. 
 

We either win now or make some really tough decisions. Well or continue to be mediocre forever 

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28 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Unless we win in the next year or two, we'll be looking at the post-Weber/Price era and probably watching another decade of teams which range from "pretty good" to "mediocre" to "execrable," just as we have done for the past 30 years. More of the same.


I agree with this part of your post. I am not drinking the cool aid believing for even a second that they have elite prospects right now to make a team a contender in three years

 

what I am saying is that the organization has made good progress in preparing that next crop of NHL talent while at the same time doing smart tweaks to have a shot during the declining years of Weber, Price, Petry.

 

I do not want the team to mimic TOR because they got lucky in their tanking, and Indo not want the team to be blown apart in the summer of ‘21

 

that’s it, patience now, swift decisions in the fall

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Seems is way too much cynicism.

 

4 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

Optimist is an understatement but it would be tremendous ... although I recognize his declining skills/performance I am a fan ... 

So, more glass 1/2 full i am all for...aside from the unrealistic fan expectation of prospects. 

 

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


Good post that articulates my argument. 
 

We either win now or make some really tough decisions. Well or continue to be mediocre forever 

 

I just don't see a trade out there that allows us to "win now". MB can make trades that would make us better short term but at what cost. Maybe he can pull a rabbit out of a hat. The Habs just aren't good enough at centre yet (I probably sound like a broken record), maybe they will be soon if KK and Suzuki come up with a development spurt but I think we have wasted Weber's best years. I am in the "tough decisions" camp. 

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yes, the idea that "our prospects will turn us into contenders if only we have patience" seems sketchy to me when the elite talent in the organization is all about 35 years old. Suzuki, KK, Romanov, and CC are all well and good, but if those were the best prospects in anyone else's organization we would probably not be saying "oh just wait three years and they will be a killer team," especially when the key cogs of the team's current core are so elderly.

 

Vancouver is an interesting point of contrast. They have a legit young star #1 C in Pettersson; a legit young stud #1 D in Hughes; a legit #1 youngish scoring winger in Boeser; a legit young-ish stud 2-way C in Horvat; and a quality young G in Demko.

 

In other words, Van is an example of a franchise that actually has elite young players at key positions.
 

It is not in fact clear that the Habs can match this configuration at any point. Suzuki *may* become as good as Petterson but so far he isn't. KK may become as good as Horvat but so far he isn't. Caulfield may become as good as or better than Boeser, or he may never come near that level. As for D and G, nope. Our main advantage over Van is that we have not poured millions in cap space into utterly useless veterans.

 

Unless we win in the next year or two, we'll be looking at the post-Weber/Price era and probably watching another decade of teams which range from "pretty good" to "mediocre" to "execrable," just as we have done for the past 30 years. More of the same.

Weber is almost there in terms of what he brings CS Salary, I see the same issue with the last half is Price’s contracts and we did let Markov go for the utterly useless Alzner.   I like most of our recent signings - shorter duration , probably only have one extra year of Petry and I’m glad Gallagher wasn’t an 8 year deal. I was a big supporter of the Anderson trade and hated the term/$, but If he can stay healthy, it will be a good deal.

 

Vancouver keeps paying stupid money fir washed up veterans (holtby most recent), which I really think you need to avoid in today’s go young cap-system NHL.

 

but yeah. We don’t have that super-elite Patterson or Hughes to build the team around. Demko is too early to say - goalies are hard to predict- look at Hart in Philly. I actually think they should have resigned Markstrom if they could have done it without the NTC (which Vancouver gives out like candy), and than moves one of them before the expansion draft. 

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