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STANLEY CUP FINALS: Game 3: Tampa Bay Lightning at Montréal Canadiens


tomh009

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3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


Gustafsson also stood there and watched the first goal happen while doing nothing. 
 

He is a liability this series 

That first goal … the rebound came back out to Palat on the left side of the net (as could be expected) and then bounced off the Palat’s skate and onto the stick of a surprised Rutta. Neither Rutta or Gustafsson expected that.

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6 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It’s true that the calculations would have to be different - but big whoop. E.g., you could just say that, for the playoffs, a player’s annual salary for that year has to fit under the cap. You can’t ice a squad whose annual salaries total more than the cap. Wouldn’t that solve the problem?

 

Well, that would be one way to get Merrill and Gustafsson out of the lineup, since they only fit under the regular season cap because of pro-ration of their salary. Many teams, particularly those who added at the deadline, would be over the cap based on that criteria, Montreal included. While I am ok with largely killing the trade deadline, most are not.

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I was about to say that CC - we like to break it down as salaries being per game, but really it’s per season regardless of games played - preseason, regular season, post-season. 
 

the cap isn’t enforced during preseason because of the expanded roster for tryouts etc. but all regular season and post season games matter. The cap should be enforced because contracts are annual, not by game. 

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The cap situation is what it is. We knew this is the team we would have to face. I don't like hearing the narrative that TB is a different beast. The Habs beat 3 very good teams to get to this point. They've been down in series 1-0, 2-1, 3-1, time for that magical run from being down 3-0.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I think the Habs have only lost a Cup clinching game on home ice once, against the '89 Flames. All you can do is play one game at a time. Win game 4. 

 

It will be interesting to see how TB navigates the cap next year, though. 

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37 minutes ago, huzer said:

The cap situation is what it is. We knew this is the team we would have to face. I don't like hearing the narrative that TB is a different beast. The Habs beat 3 very good teams to get to this point. They've been down in series 1-0, 2-1, 3-1, time for that magical run from being down 3-0.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I think the Habs have only lost a Cup clinching game on home ice once, against the '89 Flames. All you can do is play one game at a time. Win game 4. 

 

It will be interesting to see how TB navigates the cap next year, though. 

 

A narrative will be spun saying that the Habs preyed on a weak division and flawed teams to get here, and that when we finally encountered an elite team, we collapsed like the crappy team we “really” were all along. I guarantee you, for example, that that Leafs-obsessed, Habs-hating imbecile Cathay Kelly in The Globe and Mail will spin it this way.

 

That narrative is utterly false. The Habs defeated, in succession, a team widely regarded as an offensive powerhouse and serious contender (Leafs), a tough-grinding solid club (Peg) and the 40-14 heavy-duty contender Golden Knights. That’s not a fluke. The Habs deserve to be here, because they are a team built for the playoffs.

 

It’s not that TB is soooooooo much better than TO or VGK (although as defending champions, it’s fair to say that they are stronger overall than those teams). It’s that TB is a particularly terrible matchup for these Montreal Canadiens. Partly this is historical - remember when the announcers rattled off that the Canadiens were something like 0-15 against TB prior to the series? No matter how much the players will deny it, that history gives TB a certain psychological advantage, especially when it comes to veterans like Price or Gally who have no memories except of losing to that organization over their long careers.

 

But more to the point, TB has a D-corps that can really take full advantage of the fact that the Habs’ defensive system of collapsing down low gives opposing defenders all sorts of time and space in the Habs’ zone. We started to notice this danger against Vegas, when their D kept driving offence. TB took it to another level. Add that to a faltering performance by #31 and that was pretty much game over.

 

These Habs are a bit of a “hedgehog” team - they mastered one big thing, boxing out the slot and transitioning from there. Tampa is a “fox,” they can play all sorts of games. Find a predator that can defeat the hedgehog’s quills, and the critter has no chance. That’s what happened, more or less.

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2 hours ago, DON said:

So, it isnt that Tampa is winning because it has more better players (they have best goalie, d-man and 2 forwards + supporting cast in the playoffs) It is coaching that is the difference?


I think it is more than fair to question his roster moves. Sitting KK and Caufield was dumb but he corrected that. 
 

Not playing Romanov - especially under the current circumstances is dumb. 
 

The way Ducharme thinks the game continues to bother me. This organization makes choices based on not losing instead of winning. At least that’s how I see it. 
 

Cooper has more tools than we do but he had wielded them with excellence. Cooper starts the game with an energy line and we counter with the old man line and we chased the game from puck drop. 
 

Given the choice between Richardson or Ducharme as coach next year, I’d pick Richardson for sure. 

 

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6 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


Gustafsson also stood there and watched the first goal happen while doing nothing. 
 

He is a liability this series 

He was the 8the defenceman on a lousy team. I didn’t get the trade than, and every game I’ve watched, I hate the bum more. He had one good game and a lot of mediocre to bad games.

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2 hours ago, DON said:

So, it isnt that Tampa is winning because it has more better players (they have best goalie, d-man and 2 forwards + supporting cast in the playoffs) It is coaching that is the difference?

No question they have the much better players. But they also had the much better players against the Islanders who took them to 7 games, and outside of one blow out game, looked good against them. We played one solid game, otherwise it’s been largely the men’s against the boys and old men.

 

the difference between the two series. The Islanders were a much better coaches team. No way do Merril and Gustafson get deployed in that series. No way do you go with the same griffin lineup in game 3 after losing the first 2. No way do you not make adjustments to your lines - particularly the third line, which worked hard, but had zero chemistry, no way do you not add scoring from your bench, when the guys in the lineup aren’t getting it done.

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5 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He was the 8the defence man on a lousy team. I didn’t get th trade than, and every game I watch, I hat the bum more. He had one good game and a lot of mediocre to bad games.


In his defence, we were able to cover his mistakes in previous series but the bolts punish everything. 
 

Gustafson shouldn’t be playing in this series but they don’t trust Romanov or Kulak at all 

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It’s true that the calculations would have to be different - but big whoop. E.g., you could just say that, for the playoffs, a player’s annual salary for that year has to fit under the cap. You can’t ice a squad whose annual salaries total more than the cap. Wouldn’t that solve the problem?

 Have no issues for Tampa using the rules that are available in the system.

 

I do have a issue with a cap system, and the idiotic logic that guys like Burke wer so vocal of cap contravention with the long term retirement contract, like those given to a Luongo, Weber, Kovalchuk, Parise, and others, but being a big proponent of being able to trade an injured player who has a high cap hit, to another team, because insurance was going to pick up that money, and the other tram has a lot of cap room. Or a team paying trading a player with a high cap hit, but low actual salary to a floor team, who needed the height cap to reach the floor. That defeats the whole purpose of a “hard” cap system, because these types of moves typically benefits rich teams. Isn’t the whole cap system meant to level the playing field. 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

A narrative will be spun saying that the Habs preyed on a weak division and flawed teams to get here, and that when we finally encountered an elite team, we collapsed like the crappy team we “really” were all along. I guarantee you, for example, that that Leafs-obsessed, Habs-hating imbecile Cathay Kelly in The Globe and Mail will spin it this way.

 

That narrative is utterly false. The Habs defeated, in succession, a team widely regarded as an offensive powerhouse and serious contender (Leafs), a tough-grinding solid club (Peg) and the 40-14 heavy-duty contender Golden Knights. That’s not a fluke. The Habs deserve to be here, because they are a team built for the playoffs.

 

It’s not that TB is soooooooo much better than TO or VGK (although as defending champions, it’s fair to say that they are stronger overall than those teams). It’s that TB is a particularly terrible matchup for these Montreal Canadiens. Partly this is historical - remember when the announcers rattled off that the Canadiens were something like 0-15 against TB prior to the series? No matter how much the players will deny it, that history gives TB a certain psychological advantage, especially when it comes to veterans like Price or Gally who have no memories except of losing to that organization over their long careers.

 

But more to the point, TB has a D-corps that can really take full advantage of the fact that the Habs’ defensive system of collapsing down low gives opposing defenders all sorts of time and space in the Habs’ zone. We started to notice this danger against Vegas, when their D kept driving offence. TB took it to another level. Add that to a faltering performance by #31 and that was pretty much game over.

 

These Habs are a bit of a “hedgehog” team - they mastered one big thing, boxing out the slot and transitioning from there. Tampa is a “fox,” they can play all sorts of games. Find a predator that can defeat the hedgehog’s quills, and the critter has no chance. That’s what happened, more or less.

I said at the start of the season, all of the North t and were flawed.

the defence sucked on all of them. We also got big breaks or fortune in those series. Toronto losing Tavares was huge. Imagine if we lost Price.

 

Winnipeg we were fortunate that the NHL actually did what was right and suspended Scheifele. My expectation was for him to get either nothing; a fine, or 1 game max. That was a self-inflicted mis-fortune by Winnipeg that their best player took himself out of that seriees, but it benefited us. Yes, we won the first game when he was in the lineup, but one game isn’t a series. 


what was surprising was the Vegas series. We good good fortune on a Fleury blunder. But we played hard. I hat surprised me was Stone. He came up totally empty in that series and that benefited us. Their D was acting us alive, but their forwards were ineffective. Their beat player is Stone, but they don’t have a game breaker. They are a very good team, but are

not a powerhouse.

 

tampa on the other hand is an elite team. That has the potential to be a dynasty, and probably should have already won 2 cups. It’s been the men against the boys: they have one of the top 2 goalies in the league. Top 2 dman. Top 5 and top 10 forwards. They are a powerhouse: having said that, I’d we had picked up a puck mover and a solid dman, or had a guy like; I don’t know Sergechev 🙄, we would have stood a better chance. Our D is garbage. I’ve been saying it all year. I said when we err winning, that we we’re doing it with smoke, mirrors and Price. Now that we have average Price, the smoke and mirrors have been exposed.  Hat really grates me right now, is that we are not icing, or deploy long the best lineup we could.

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28 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


In his defence, we were able to cover his mistakes in previous series but the bolts punish everything. 
 

Gustafson shouldn’t be playing in this series but they don’t trust Romanov or Kulak at all 

Ant that is a management and coaching issue. I have not anything from Merrill,

or Gustafson to warrant any more trust for them. Price covered the previous mistakes. That’s not happening anymore.

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18 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

A happy fan??? Seriously. I’ve got a headache watching this game and being so pissed off. Watching with my 11 year old, so have to bite my tongue from searing out loud.

 

yes I am a happy fan. The Habs beat all expectations and made it to the final. They are being beaten by a much better team, which is not a surprise, but the key players that I care about are giving it all their effort.

 

I am specially happy with the way Suzuki, Caufield and Kotkaniemi are playing. They are performing quite well against the best team in the NHL.

 

As for the rest... I am not disapointed because I do "set the bar really low" and do not expect much from Staal, Merrill, Gustafson, Lehkonen, Armia, Byron. They are good NHL fillers and I do not care much on how they play at this level, they are overmatched

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17 hours ago, tomh009 said:

The reality is that we are not good enough to beat Tampa. However, I'm with Alfredo -- I'm still proud of this team.

 

 

 

I like that song!

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10 hours ago, johnnyhasbeen said:

If only we had another 10mil or so in cap on our team.......

 

Habs will have about $5M cap space even if they sign Danault, Armia and Lehkonen.  Over $10M if they do not sign Danault. So, yes, they will have the cap room to improve the team

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Salary Cap is not beating the Habs. Gustafson is not so bad as single-handedly sabotaging the Habs

 

Vasilevski, Hedman, Sergachev, Kutcherov, Point, etc. are beating the Habs.

 

A bunch of teams with higher Salary cap than the Habs didn't make it this far

 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Salary Cap is not beating the Habs. Gustafson is not so bad as single-handedly sabotaging the Habs

 

Vasilevski, Hedman, Sergachev, Kutcherov, Point, etc. are beating the Habs.

 

A bunch of teams with higher Salary cap than the Habs didn't make it this far

 

image.png

Not having a decent defence for today’s NHL, whose fault are exposed when Price isn’t superman is what is beating the habs.

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Not having a decent defence for today’s NHL, whose fault are exposed when Price isn’t superman is what is beating the habs.

I disagree. The Habs have a decent defence 

 

They do not have an elite defence 

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Salary Cap is not beating the Habs. Gustafson is not so bad as single-handedly sabotaging the Habs

In fact, looking at data, Eriksson has been quite all right in the playoffs. With him on the ice, the Habs shoot more and give up fewer shots. They score more and give up fewer goals. And that's before looking at the advanced stats.

 

Yes, yes, limited ice time, sheltered from opposition etc. That will explain part of it, not all of it. The ice time assignments he has been given, he really has not sucked. Look at SF/SA and GF/GA -- he is making a positive contribution (the stats below are 5v5 only so does not count his PP role). And that's why Ducharme keeps playing him.

 

image.png

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27 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

In fact, looking at data, Eriksson Gustafsson has been quite all right in the playoffs. With him on the ice, the Habs shoot more and give up fewer shots. They score more and give up fewer goals. And that's before looking at the advanced stats.

 

Yes, yes, limited ice time, sheltered from opposition etc. That will explain part of it, not all of it. The ice time assignments he has been given, he really has not sucked. Look at SF/SA and GF/GA -- he is making a positive contribution (the stats below are 5v5 only so does not count his PP role). And that's why Ducharme keeps playing him.

 

image.png

Fixed that for you.

 

He should be resigned, he is one of the best offensive LDs in the market this summer

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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I like that song!

I played it incessantly for my sister until she broke my nose.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I disagree. The Habs have a decent defence 

 

They do not have an elite defence 

Decent D when compare to Buffalo, or NJD - although with Dahlin, Buffalo do have more upside. Our D is average when compared to the other teams in this year’s North division. 
 

Clearly inferior than Boston, Tampa, and Florida, which are teams they will be battling fir a playoff spot next year, as well as other eastern teams like the Islanders, Rangers, and capitals.
 

We have a below average D, that looks better when Price is playing like Superman.

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45 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Fixed that for you.

 

He should be resigned, he is one of the best offensive LDs in the market this summer

That’s like saying Rob Pilatus was the best singer for milli Vanelli.

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2 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

That’s like saying Rob Pilatus was the best singer for milli Vanelli.

 

Didn't know you were into lip singing. Karaoke too?

 

Here are the top PPG LD UFAs thi summer:

 

image.png

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35 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Decent D when compare to Buffalo, or NJD - although with Dahlin, Buffalo do have more upside. Our D is average when compared to the other teams in this year’s North division. 
 

Clearly inferior than Boston, Tampa, and Florida, which are teams they will be battling fir a playoff spot next year, as well as other eastern teams like the Islanders, Rangers, and capitals.
 

We have a below average D, that looks better when Price is playing like Superman.

 

Ok, I had to take a look and I concede that FLA has a better D than MTL. specially for the bottom 3 Ds. But the Habs have a better than average defense compared to the league this season.

 

With all the UFAs in the Habs roster and the available Cap room this summer, I am in a wait and see before panicking for next season

 

 

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