Habs Off Season 2021

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

22 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Just going by last season - this is a group built for the playoffs. But the flip-side of that is that they are probably a bubble team in the regular season. It’s hard to play that meat-grinder style for 82 games, and the MVP (Price) certainly can no longer be counted upon to be elite over a regular season. So the assessment makes some sense, even if 23rd overall seems to be unduly pessimistic.

 

The big X-factor is the subtraction of Weber. Savard is likely a step down even from the damaged, mediocre Weber we saw last season. The loss of Danault is also big, but then again he was pretty “meh” in the regular season too. So between that and the additions, we may reasonably expect a regular season performance along the lines of last year’s. Now if KK (or Suzuki, or Caufield, or Romanov) hit another level, that will change the calculus. 

 

Agree with your assessment. Weber and Danault were hardly huge pluses during the regular season last year. A lot depends on how the kids continue to develop. For me the big question mark is KK, if he can move forward and find some consistency then that will be a huge factor. Of course a lot depends on Carey as well. 

[Habsfan89]

5 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

That’s a pretty good group down the W, but you’re right about C. The Habs right now seem to be doing exactly what fans always say they want - i.e., give a huge amount of opportunity to young players. Too much. Neither KK nor Evans have put together anything like a consistent NHL season in their careers. And the odds of both just magically flipping a switch and delivering 82 high-quality games next season are not great. Poehling, meanwhile, is a raw rookie. The attempt to make the playoffs could flounder on weakness down the middle.

 

The only question, to my mind, is whether the Habs go and add a quality veteran C before the season starts, or take a wait-and-see approach leading to a mid-season move.

Yeah my thing is if they're any injuries down the middle we're in trouble.  We need to upgrade that depth. 

[Sir_Boagalott]

On 8/6/2021 at 12:14 PM, alfredoh2009 said:

I haven’t read it but I am not surprised.

1. No Price for half the season,

2. a questionable top 4 with a good offensive D in Petry buta that is also prone to brain cramps

3. one top-4 D injury away from disaster

4. No signed NHL backup for half the season

5. No proven shutdown center

6. No elite forward

7. only LTIR cap room

 

I need some strong coffee now to pick me up from writing that... 🥴

 

I disagree with 6. 

 

Suzuki will turn into an elite Center, if it will be this year or not is a wait and see, and Caufield has shown that he has elite skills too.  Furthermore, last year Toffoli was on pace for 56 g in an 82 game season.  Toffoli finished 7th in scoring, and was only 5 goals behind McDavid who was 2nd overall. 

 

In addition, Toffoli's TOI was 17:30 - which was the least of all players above him, and even all players in the top 20.  Most of the players ahead of him in G's played 20 mins or more with the exception of Marchand 18:55 & Rantenen 19:55.  In the top 20 Paccioretty (18th) had 17:56 and Bergeron 18:13 (19th) and Toffoli had 5 & 4 more goals than both of them.  There are numerous elite players in the top 20 that make way more money and scored less goals than Toffoli.  ex:  Ovie, Cosby, Pavelski, Barkov, plus Aho, and O'Reilly.  

[DON]

3 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

I disagree with 6. 

 

Suzuki will turn into an elite Center, if it will be this year or not is a wait and see,

He is not an elite forward yet, tied 71st in scoring.

[alfredoh2009]

59 minutes ago, DON said:

He is not an elite forward yet, tied 71st in scoring.

exactly

[DON]

Birthday boy Allen, rocking rookie's shirt.

[alfredoh2009]

From this article by Marc Dumont, it seems like Wideman is taking the bottom RD slot, or what I call "Gustafsson's spot"

https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/dissecting-the-canadiens-free-agency-moves/c-325882910

 

IMO Kulak becomes a trading chip as he is pushed out of the lineup again. Kulak's numbers are great and he is young and has a club friendly contract. If he could play 20min/g he would be a good 2nd pair defenseman on most teams. He is a quality 7th D in Montreal that can play on any pair for a few games.

 

 Perrault is not viewed as center (in case you wonder, as I was wondering) and the 4th line center. position seems to be Paquette's to loose. Which slots Evans on the 3rd line and will probably mean that a trade will be done to move a winger out of Montreal.

 

So, from this article, my conclusion is that the Habs have a bottom 6 winger and Kulak available to trade for improvemnt at either the bottom RD position or the 3rd line center position. Other than that, it is up to the prospects to for MB's hand

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

21 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

From this article by Marc Dumont, it seems like Wideman is taking the bottom RD slot, or what I call "Gustafsson's spot"

https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/dissecting-the-canadiens-free-agency-moves/c-325882910

 

IMO Kulak becomes a trading chip as he is pushed out of the lineup again. Kulak's numbers are great and he is young and has a club friendly contract. If he could play 20min/g he would be a good 2nd pair defenseman on most teams. He is a quality 7th D in Montreal that can play on any pair for a few games.

 

 Perrault is not viewed as center (in case you wonder, as I was wondering) and the 4th line center. position seems to be Paquette's to loose. Which slots Evans on the 3rd line and will probably mean that a trade will be done to move a winger out of Montreal.

 

So, from this article, my conclusion is that the Habs have a bottom 6 winger and Kulak available to trade for improvemnt at either the bottom RD position or the 3rd line center position. Other than that, it is up to the prospects to for MB's hand

 

Kulak’s “numbers are great,” the Habs are in desperate need of puck-moving D, and yet he is unable to consistently make the lineup. Something in this trifecta of claims is messed up. Either the Habs’ coaches have badly mishandled a legitimate top-4 D-man, or Kulak is just not as good as his defenders - and I’m one - think he is.

 

Either way, his usage on the Habs ensures that his trading value is way below your suggestion that he could be dealt in return for a legit #3 C. No team is going to deal away a top-9 C for a #6-7 D-man, which is how the Habs have positioned poor old Kulak.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Birthday boy Allen, rocking rookie's shirt.

 

I love it when players act like regular old hockey fans. A lot of them do seem to think and act just like fans, despite being “on the inside.” It’s cool. 👍

[alfredoh2009]

13 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Kulak’s “numbers are great,” the Habs are in desperate need of puck-moving D, and yet he is unable to consistently make the lineup. Something in this trifecta of claims is messed up. Either the Habs’ coaches have badly mishandled a legitimate top-4 D-man, or Kulak is just not as good as his defenders - and I’m one - think he is.

 

Either way, his usage on the Habs ensures that his trading value is way below your suggestion that he could be dealt in return for a legit #3 C. No team is going to deal away a top-9 C for a #6-7 D-man, which is how the Habs have positioned poor old Kulak.

 

you are probably right on Kulak, to my amateurish eye he reminds me of Petry when he came to the Habs: good skater, flashes of offensive upside, handled puck like a grenade under pressure, not intimidating on board battles.

 

[DON]

52 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I love it when players act like regular old hockey fans. A lot of them do seem to think and act just like fans, despite being “on the inside.” It’s cool. 👍

Marc Andre Fleury was open about still being a Habs fan, or following them at least, which seemed unusual to hear from active opposing player.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Kulak’s “numbers are great,” the Habs are in desperate need of puck-moving D, and yet he is unable to consistently make the lineup. Something in this trifecta of claims is messed up. Either the Habs’ coaches have badly mishandled a legitimate top-4 D-man, or Kulak is just not as good as his defenders - and I’m one - think he is.

 

Either way, his usage on the Habs ensures that his trading value is way below your suggestion that he could be dealt in return for a legit #3 C. No team is going to deal away a top-9 C for a #6-7 D-man, which is how the Habs have positioned poor old Kulak.

I think Kulak is probably a better bottom pairing dman than he looks in the habs. Our issue is we don’t have the right mix on the top 4. So either he gets pushed up the lineup and has to play above his capability level, makes mistakes and gets benched. I think he’s make a great 10-12 min bottom pairing puck mover. But he keeps getting thrown into the top 4 - which he clearly is not suited for (at least hasn’t shown in yet), and than they have so little faith in him, that he played 6-9 minutes.

 

he is clearly more trouble than Gustafson though. Gustafson is a pylon that can skate

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

you are probably right on Kulak, to my amateurish eye he reminds me of Petry when he came to the Habs: good skater, flashes of offensive upside, handled puck like a grenade under pressure, not intimidating on board battles.

 

Petry was much more skilled than Kulak, and what have been a top UFA had he not resigned for us. Kulak has nowhere that level of skill.

 

Over time, Petry has improved defensively. Kulak doesn’t have anywhere near the offensive ability of Petry to begin with.

[alfredoh2009]

3 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Petry was much more skilled than Kulak, and what have been a top UFA had he not resigned for us. Kulak has nowhere that level of skill.

 

Over time, Petry has improved defensively. Kulak doesn’t have anywhere near the offensive ability of Petry to begin with.

 

I checked again the numbers, from Evolving Hockey, which show a more sobering picture than what I could tell from Natural Stat Trick.

 

You are right, he is a bottom pair, 7th D and regressed with the growing role of Romanov, Kulak is not as good on RD as he is on LD.

Not a blue chip trade piece, but he is what we have on D that may interest other teams

[GHT120]

4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think Kulak is probably a better bottom pairing dman than he looks in the habs ... I think he’s make a great 10-12 min bottom pairing puck mover ...

A tad pricey for that role at $1.850M ... 

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, GHT120 said:

A tad pricey for that role at $1.850M ... 

Agreed, but you don’t think Savard, Chiarot, and Edmondson aren’t expensive for what they bring?  Not much separating the three either.

 

Ideally we have the $7m-$8m truly elite dman, Petry in the $5m-7m range, a $4m top four (Edmondson?), two young dmen that are cheap and have huge upside (hopefully Romanov can be one of those), and another experienced bottom pairing dman under $1.5m.

 

 

[GHT120]

22 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Agreed, but you don’t think Savard, Chiarot, and Edmondson aren’t expensive for what they bring?  Not much separating the three either ...

Don't necessarily disagree ... but Kulak is making about twice what he should for that role ... and not certain that if S/C/E are truly overpaid that they are anywhere near as far overpaid.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don’t think Chiarot or Edmundson are overpaid at all. 3.5 for guys who eat major, hard minutes every night? Sounds just fine to me. Savard, the jury’s out, but clearly the Habs see him fitting precisely into that mould. Petry at 6.5 is right where he should be as well. 

 

Kulak, yes, clearly overpaid, given that the coaches use him as a #6-7. That is hardly a crippling contract, however. 

 

Insofar as this team has cap issues, D is not where they lie. Weber’s injury removes one of the worst contracts in all of hockey from our back end and leaves us with a rather sensible cap structure on D.

[alfredoh2009]

10 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I don’t think Chiarot or Edmundson are overpaid at all. 3.5 for guys who eat major, hard minutes every night? Sounds just fine to me. Savard, the jury’s out, but clearly the Habs see him fitting precisely into that mould. Petry at 6.5 is right where he should be as well. 

 

Kulak, yes, clearly overpaid, given that the coaches use him as a #6-7. That is hardly a crippling contract, however. 

 

Insofar as this team has cap issues, D is not where they lie. Weber’s injury removes one of the worst contracts in all of hockey from our back end and leaves us with a rather sensible cap structure on D.

Agree 100%
but would move Kulak out for his right handed twin

[hab29RETIRED]

4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I don’t think Chiarot or Edmundson are overpaid at all. 3.5 for guys who eat major, hard minutes every night? Sounds just fine to me. Savard, the jury’s out, but clearly the Habs see him fitting precisely into that mould. Petry at 6.5 is right where he should be as well. 

 

Kulak, yes, clearly overpaid, given that the coaches use him as a #6-7. That is hardly a crippling contract, however. 

 

Insofar as this team has cap issues, D is not where they lie. Weber’s injury removes one of the worst contracts in all of hockey from our back end and leaves us with a rather sensible cap structure on D.

I think they are overpaid in the sense that we are paying 3 guys - that essentially play the same way - when ideally, only one of them should be in the top 4. Savard showed last year he is suited for the bottom pairing role, and I think Chairot is similar. 
I think they played over their heads, partly becuase how crappy the refereeing was in the playoffs. To GET to the playoffs we need more offense from the D. The only dependable offensive dman guy we have is Petry. I still think we needed to upgrade two of our dmen as more legit puck moving top pairing and another more legit top 4 dman.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

6 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think they are overpaid in the sense that we are paying 3 guys - that essentially play the same way - when ideally, only one of them should be in the top 4. Savard showed last year he is suited for the bottom pairing role, and I think Chairot is similar. 
I think they played over their heads, partly becuase how crappy the refereeing was in the playoffs. To GET to the playoffs we need more offense from the D. The only dependable offensive dman guy we have is Petry. I still think we needed to upgrade two of our dmen as more legit puck moving top pairing and another more legit top 4 dman.

 

They didn’t really “play over their heads” due to shit reffing; rather, the way the idiot refs call the game in the playoffs is perfectly suited to their plodding, meat-grinder game. Since the NHL does this every year, calling the regular season and the playoffs completely differently, it’s fair game to build a D for the playoffs.

 

I do agree that our D is weirdly unbalanced, though. A D “built for the playoffs” is a whole other proposition over the regular season - and even in the playoffs, we saw in the last two rounds the difference that it can make when a team gets offensive push from the back end. So yep, we’re in agreement on that.

 

But on a player-by-player basis, our D-men are not overpaid. Chiarot and Edmundson are both legit top-4 guys on most teams. 3.5 is reasonable for a top-4 defenceman. The issue, rather, is that we have all the same type of guy back there (apart from Petry). The Habs really believe in that model, it seems. 

[DON]

14 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think they are overpaid in the sense that we are paying 3 guys - that essentially play the same way - when ideally, only one of them should be in the top 4. 

Ideally Habs should also have Crosby-P Kane-Ovi on the 1st line for upcoming year, but aint happening.

Cant complain about responsible $3.5m/yr, 28-30yr old, 15+minute d-men these days.

 

Habs need to put more $$ up front than on defense anyways.

If Chiarot was needed in a trade deal for a forward, would be fine by me, but he is in last year of deal and think Bergy is happy with the three $3.5 big physical amigos for this year anyways.

[GHT120]

4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think they are overpaid in the sense that we are paying 3 guys - that essentially play the same way - when ideally, only one of them should be in the top 4...

 

3 hours ago, DON said:

Ideally Habs should also have Crosby-P Kane-Ovi on the 1st line for upcoming year, but aint happening.

Cant complain about responsible $3.5m/yr, 28-30yr old, 15+minute d-men these days ...

 

Think that is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison ... MB has consciously signed C-E-S and built the top two pairings with three of the same type of defenceman (big, slow and minimal puck-moving ability) who will be expected to play 20+ minutes per game (not 15+) ... Crosby-Kane-Ovi is a $28.7M AAV pipe dream.

 

BTW ... IMO, ideally two of them would be top 4, paired with Petry and another puck-mover ... and I would also include Chiarot in the right trade.

[dlbalr]

 

He wrapped up his QMJHL career last year after Chicago opted not to sign him.  I'd have to think this is effectively an ECHL tryout.

 

Elsewhere, a Russian interview with Romanov: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sports.ru%2Ftribuna%2Fblogs%2Fsuddenlife%2F2952130.html&sandbox=1

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

He wrapped up his QMJHL career last year after Chicago opted not to sign him.  I'd have to think this is effectively an ECHL tryout.

 

Elsewhere, a Russian interview with Romanov: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sports.ru%2Ftribuna%2Fblogs%2Fsuddenlife%2F2952130.html&sandbox=1

 

Bizarre translations, obviously, but Romanov shines through as a guy who loves Montreal, and is soaking up everything he can from the Habs’ veterans - especially Weber and Perry. That neither of those two is around any more is slightly worrisome from this point of view. Interesting that he framed Tampa as much tougher, physically, than Vegas - he clearly thinks that that is why TB handled us so easily; they neutralized our physical edge. 

 

The kid emerges as very thoughtful, likeable, and eager to learn. 👍