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2021/2022 Lineup Ideas


hockeyrealist

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6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

like Frolik

 

I'm confident Anisimov has more left in the tank than Frolik did last season but that's a low bar to clear.  But yeah, that's about the type of role he'd be best suited for at this stage of his career.

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2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

I have to admit, I'm digging pretty deep into the list of free agents for my writeups in that series and Anisimov's name never came up for consideration nor was he in my top 75 when we were doing the voting last month for our rankings.  (The Yardbarker article is a PHR repost.)

 

Anisimov looked more than a step behind the play last season in the games I saw him.  Offensively, he's good enough to improve the floor on the fourth line in terms of offence but I question if the added production would be enough to offset his defensive weaknesses.  I don't think he's worth signing unless it was a training camp PTO to see if there's anything left in the tank.

 

I thought I read a PHR article the other day and Anisimov was listed as one of the top available players.

 

Or maybe not (https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2021/08/poll-how-many-top-unsigned-free-agents-will-play-in-nhl-this-season.html). He was just mentioned as having the highest points per game in limited action. I must have imagined him being ranked higher than Bozak.

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25 minutes ago, Fanpuck33 said:

I thought I read a PHR article the other day and Anisimov was listed as one of the top available players.

 

Or maybe not (https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2021/08/poll-how-many-top-unsigned-free-agents-will-play-in-nhl-this-season.html). He was just mentioned as having the highest points per game in limited action. I must have imagined him being ranked higher than Bozak.

 

Yeah, that was just a quick summary of who's left (I think I may be doing something like that for HW next week as well, obviously more Montreal-specific).  Bozak was higher-rated (35th), Anisimov was NR.

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On 8/23/2021 at 11:32 AM, Habsfan89 said:

Well with Drouin back I would think they would put him back with Suzuki so lines could be 

 

Drouin  / Suzuki  / Caufeild 

Hoffman  / Kotkaniemi  / Anderson 

Toffoli  / Evans  / Gallagher 

Lehkonen  /  Paquette  / Armia 

 

Ex Poehling , Perreault 

 

Edmundson  / Petry 

Romanov  / Savard 

Chiarot  / Wideman 

 

Ex Kulak 

 

Price 

Allan 

 

That could be Our opening day lines and lineup.  If you ask  me to be honest we're in trouble if we get injuries to our d or c, we just don't have the depth like we do on the wings. 

your line-up and what I had proposed are very close. I have been looking at potential center upgrades and I am now comfortable with this updated lineup (highlighted are differences with yours):

Scoring line:       Hoffman-Suzuki-Caufield
"Show me" line:  Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Anderson
Two way line:     Toffoli-Evans-Gallagher
Energy line:         Lehkonen-Paquette-Armia

Perrault, Dea


Proven top-pair:                     Edmundson-Petry
"Rock 'n' Sock Connection":  Chiarot-Savard
and a strng 3rd pair:               Romanov-Wideman
Kulak

 

Price

Allen

 

PP1

Hoffman-Suzuki-Caufield

Drouin-Petry

PP2

Anderson-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher

Toffoli-Wideman

 

Notes: Paquette has very good FO% numbers and with Lehkonen and Armia he should win many faceoffs as they are both strong in puck pursuit and protection.

 

Evans has better PPG numbers (16/60, 0.27ppg) than Paquette (93/424, 0.22ppg) but over much less time. Since Evans is still progressing and Paquette seems to be past his peak; Evans is slotted at 3C and Paquette at 4C

 

Habs lineup is stronger than last year's, with a declining Tatar eing replaced by Hoffman and an improved Suzuki replacing a declining Danault. More scoring depth and decent D pairs. what we may loose in Weber's absence we gain in better bottom pair defensemen.

 

The powerplay seems to be better (on paper)

 

If Suzuki and Kotkaniemi peorforms at the same level as last year, or they improve!, the Habs will make the playoffs.

 

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23 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

your line-up and what I had proposed are very close. I have been looking at potential center upgrades and I am now comfortable with this updated lineup (highlighted are differences with yours):

Scoring line:       Hoffman-Suzuki-Caufield
"Show me" line:  Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Anderson
Two way line:     Toffoli-Evans-Gallagher
Energy line:         Lehkonen-Paquette-Armia

Perrault, Dea


Proven top-pair:                     Edmundson-Petry
"Rock 'n' Sock Connection":  Chiarot-Savard
and a strng 3rd pair:               Romanov-Wideman
Kulak

 

Price

Allen

 

PP1

Hoffman-Suzuki-Caufield

Drouin-Petry

PP2

Anderson-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher

Toffoli-Wideman

 

Notes: Paquette has very good FO% numbers and with Lehkonen and Armia he should win many faceoffs as they are both strong in puck pursuit and protection.

 

Evans has better PPG numbers (16/60, 0.27ppg) than Paquette (93/424, 0.22ppg) but over much less time. Since Evans is still progressing and Paquette seems to be past his peak; Evans is slotted at 3C and Paquette at 4C

 

Habs lineup is stronger than last year's, with a declining Tatar eing replaced by Hoffman and an improved Suzuki replacing a declining Danault. More scoring depth and decent D pairs. what we may loose in Weber's absence we gain in better bottom pair defensemen.

 

The powerplay seems to be better (on paper)

 

If Suzuki and Kotkaniemi peorforms at the same level as last year, or they improve!, the Habs will make the playoffs.

 

 

:flaming::flaming::flaming:Gosh! Darn Carolina Huricanes!!!! :flaming::flaming::flaming:

:flaming::flaming::flaming:You had to mess up with MY line-up proposal :flaming::flaming::flaming:

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looking at the lines posted on Cap Friendly this morning, it dawned on me that the Habs are thin at centre but that there is no reason to rush any signings.

If we think of the lines as if KK was injured and out of the lineup, this would not be too bad for 10-20 games:

 

Scoring line:                     Hoffman-Suzuki-Caufield
Two way line:                   Toffoli-Evans-Gallagher
"Hope for the best" line:  Drouin-Perrault-Anderson
Energy line:                       Lehkonen-Paquette-Armia

Belzile, Dea


Proven top-pair:                     Edmundson-Petry
"Rock 'n' Sock Connection":  Chiarot-Savard
and a strng 3rd pair:               Romanov-Wideman
Kulak

 

Price

Allen

 

PP1

Hoffman-Suzuki-Caufield

Drouin-Petry

PP2

Anderson-Perrault-Gallagher

Toffoli-Wideman

 

Now the Habs would have extra picks and cap space to wait for end-of-camp-training waivers and cap crunch by some teams.

Heck, Drouin and Perrault could take faceoffs on that third line depending on the situation

 

😎  ☀️  😎

 

 

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Evans has the same wingers than if he was listed third

 

he can go against top lines a shut them down. Toffoli and Gallagher can manufacture offense and Evans watch their backs

 

Habs do not need to add anyone for over a month, could start the season with a hole at one of the mid-6 centres

 

thete is no urgency in replacing KK

Edited by alfredoh2009
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9 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 


Proven top-pair:                     Edmundson-Petry
"Rock 'n' Sock Connection":  Chiarot-Savard
and a strng 3rd pair:               Romanov-Wideman
Kulak

 

 

 

I'd put Romanov with Savard and try to roll three more even pairs for the regular season.  Go to a top 4 if you have to in the playoffs. I also don't see Wideman taking Kulak's spot out of the gate.

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8 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Evans has the same wingers than if he was listed third

 

he can go against top lines a shut them down. Toffoli and Gallagher can manufacture offense and Evans watch their backs

 

Habs do not need to add anyone for over a month, could start the season with a hole at one of the mid-6 centres

 

thete is no urgency in replacing KK

 

I disagree. The C roster was crap *even before* KK got offer-shat, because it was predicated on KK suddenly taking a big step forward and being ready for top-6 minutes - and also on Evans being ready to step into a top-9 role. In other words, the whole thing depended on two players doing something they’ve never done before, at the key C position. As I’ve said before, that wasn’t planning, it was wishful thinking.

 

Now we are looking at relying on Evans (!) to suddenly vault two steps up rather than one, and fourth-liners playing up the lineup.

 

That is what bad teams look like: they have a bunch of guys playing too high up in the depth chart, due to a lack of any viable alternative.

 

By the 20 game mark, with that configuration, we could already be watching the season slip away. Then we have to make a desperation move (or else accept that we are tanking).

 

That’s no way to run a rodeo.

 

If we lose KK, MB has to make finding a quality #2C an absolute top priority - and a somewhat urgent priority at that, unless we wish to throw the season.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

If we lose KK, MB has to make finding a quality #2C an absolute top priority - and a somewhat urgent priority at that, unless we wish to throw the season.

 

That's why I think they should sign KK because deals out of desperation are never good deals.  If they don't sign him then take the picks and walk. Maybe sign Bozak as a stop gap measure. 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I disagree. The C roster was crap *even before* KK got offer-shat, because it was predicated on KK suddenly taking a big step forward and being ready for top-6 minutes - and also on Evans being ready to step into a top-9 role. In other words, the whole thing depended on two players doing something they’ve never done before, at the key C position. As I’ve said before, that wasn’t planning, it was wishful thinking.

 

Now we are looking at relying on Evans (!) to suddenly vault two steps up rather than one, and fourth-liners playing up the lineup.

 

That is what bad teams look like: they have a bunch of guys playing too high up in the depth chart, due to a lack of any viable alternative.

 

By the 20 game mark, with that configuration, we could already be watching the season slip away. Then we have to make a desperation move (or else accept that we are tanking).

 

That’s no way to run a rodeo.

 

If we lose KK, MB has to make finding a quality #2C an absolute top priority - and a somewhat urgent priority at that, unless we wish to throw the season.

 

Habs do not have to magically sign a 2C that will make them again a playoff sure bet.

 

They need to ice a competitive team and play.

 

before KK signed with CAR, if he would have gotten hurt the Habs woul dhave needed to shuffle the lineups.

 

all I am saying is that oout of all the centres the Habs have, Evans is probably better suited to fill-in for what would otherwise be Danault's role.

From there-on the other players fall into place.

 

Habs need a 2C, like Pleks was in his best years, to make solve the Habs problem at centre

 

by the 20 game mark, if the Habs have not signed that type of player, their season will probably be slipping away: I agree

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

That's why I think they should sign KK because deals out of desperation are never good deals.  If they don't sign him then take the picks and walk. Maybe sign Bozak as a stop gap measure. 

nope, no way.

 

signing that kid to that contract is plain stupidity

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9 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

Habs do not have to magically sign a 2C that will make them again a playoff sure bet.

 

They need to ice a competitive team and play.

 

before KK signed with CAR, if he would have gotten hurt the Habs woul dhave needed to shuffle the lineups.

 

all I am saying is that oout of all the centres the Habs have, Evans is probably better suited to fill-in for what would otherwise be Danault's role.

From there-on the other players fall into place.

 

Habs need a 2C, like Pleks was in his best years, to make solve the Habs problem at centre

 

by the 20 game mark, if the Habs have not signed that type of player, their season will probably be slipping away: I agree

 

 

 

What you’re missing is that a team with KK as 2nd line C and Evans as 3rd line C is not self-evidently a “competitive team.” Rather it is a team with huge question marks in its top-3 C configuration.

 

You seem to be assuming that, just because KK was slotted to be #2C, he was automatically going to succeed in that role. But my view is that the status quo prior to the offer sheet was based on a lot of finger-crossing and wishful thinking. That team *already* needed an upgrade at C in order to be reliably competitive.

 

And anyway - what happens if Suzuki gets hurt? At this point it doesn’t even bear thinking about, because the result would be absolutely catastrophic.

 

So we’ve gone from a team with huge question marks down the middle to a team with obvious gaping holes down the middle. Rolling into the season with that is just dumb IMHO.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

nope, no way.

 

signing that kid to that contract is plain stupidity

 

Maybe in the short term it will look bad but if KK turns out to be a stud then a late 1st round pick will be pitiful compensation.  He just turned 21, they need to figure out what he will look like 3-4 years from now. 

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8 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

What you’re missing is that a team with KK as 2nd line C and Evans as 3rd line C is not self-evidently a “competitive team.” Rather it is a team with huge question marks in its top-3 C configuration.

 

You seem to be assuming that, just because KK was slotted to be #2C, he was automatically going to succeed in that role. But my view is that the status quo prior to the offer sheet was based on a lot of finger-crossing and wishful thinking. That team *already* needed an upgrade at C in order to be reliably competitive.

 

And anyway - what happens if Suzuki gets hurt? At this point it doesn’t even bear thinking about, because the result would be absolutely catastrophic.

 

So we’ve gone from a team with huge question marks down the middle to a team with obvious gaping holes down the middle. Rolling into the season with that is just dumb IMHO.

 

1. KK at 2C and Evans at 3C: I posted that this scenario may not be that bad and that the team would be a bubble team. I do not agree that the team has huge question marks, just plain old question marks.

2. KK successful at 2C: define success.... for me, performing at the low-bar level of Danault 2020-2021 was "success"; I called that line the "show-me" line, because Drouin: Kotkaniemi-Andersson need to show consistency. a combined 85-90 points from that line would be the criteria to measure "success" from a scoring perspective

3. If Suzuki gets hurt: Habs are finishing at the bottom of the standings

4. "from huge question marks... to gaping holes: with Danault's departure, that is the situation

 

For these reasons, I would not compound the problems and strap the Habs to a bad $6,1M/yr contract. I would take the picks and trade to improve the team

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47 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

For these reasons, I would not compound the problems and strap the Habs to a bad $6,1M/yr contract. I would take the picks and trade to improve the team

 

I agree with this conclusion. Insofar as we differ, it’s that I see KK as #2C as precisely a huge question mark - which for me compounds the argument for not signing him at that rate. 

 

I dunno, I have a persistent feeling that Suzuki is indeed going to get injured this season. I hope I’m wrong, obviously. But we saw him get absolutely a clobbered a few times last year, and the way the Habs are set up, with KK or without him, Slick Nick will now get 100% of the hostile attention other teams have to throw at guys, since the opposition will not be in the slightest bit worried about any of our other C. The situation reminds me a little bit of how we handled Koivu - throwing him to the wolves with no support as a young star. Again, I hope I’m wrong.

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9 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Maybe in the short term it will look bad but if KK turns out to be a stud then a late 1st round pick will be pitiful compensation.  He just turned 21, they need to figure out what he will look like 3-4 years from now. 

And it will be seen as brilliant if KK flat-lines another regular season and turns out to top out as another Lars Eller ... best and worst case scenarios are not the basis upon which to make the decision

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10 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

That's why I think they should sign KK because deals out of desperation are never good deals.  If they don't sign him then take the picks and walk. Maybe sign Bozak as a stop gap measure. 

Of course, by the same logic  matching the offer would then be a move out of desperation.

 

Much as I am not a fan of MB et al, THEY have the expertise to make a more informed decision on KK's realistic future production/role and whether he really wants to (a) be a Hab, (b) leave or (c) is OK with it either way.

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45 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

And it will be seen as brilliant if KK flat-lines another regular season and turns out to top out as another Lars Eller ... best and worst case scenarios are not the basis upon which to make the decision

 

Yes, that’s why if I’m MB, I will have been scouring the organization for detailed analyses of KK and projections about how he will look in 3 years. Coaches, advanced stats guys, pro scouts - it should be all hands on deck for maximum insight, considered info on this kid. And I go outside the org as well, if possible.

 

I doubt that this has happened, but that’s what should have happened IMHO.

 

Anyway, we’ll soon see what MB decides to do…

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5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Yes, that’s why if I’m MB, I will have been scouring the organization for detailed analyses of KK and projections about how he will look in 3 years. Coaches, advanced stats guys, pro scouts - it should be all hands on deck for maximum, considered info on this kid. And I go outside the org as well, if possible.

 

I doubt that this has happened, but that’s what should have happened IMHO.

 

Anyway, we’ll soon see what MB decides to do…

Agree ... although in the best organizations I expect this is happening on an ongoing basis for all their players, and targets of interest around the NHL.

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4 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Of course, by the same logic  matching the offer would then be a move out of desperation.

 

Much as I am not a fan of MB et al, THEY have the expertise to make a more informed decision on KK's realistic future production/role and whether he really wants to (a) be a Hab, (b) leave or (c) is OK with it either way.

Just as they had the expertise and informed decision to trade Sergechev and hope Drouin would be a centre, or that 4 years of Alzner was worth more than 2 years of markov.

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37 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Just as they had the expertise and informed decision to trade Sergechev and hope Drouin would be a centre, or that 4 years of Alzner was worth more than 2 years of markov.

Just as Las Vegas had the expertise and informed decision to trade Suzuki and dump a washed-up Tatar, or Winnipeg determined that Armia would never amount to anything.

 

It's the same in any organization, hockey or otherwise. There are no guarantees that new hires -- or existing employees -- will actually meet the potential you think they have.

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5 hours ago, GHT120 said:

And it will be seen as brilliant if KK flat-lines another regular season and turns out to top out as another Lars Eller ... best and worst case scenarios are not the basis upon which to make the decision

 

KK's production in the playoffs as a 19 and 20 year old lead me to believe he will be more than a Lars Eller. However the Habs have better information than I do. We will know shortly what they think of his future potential. It is not an easy decision. 

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18 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I disagree. The C roster was crap *even before* KK got offer-shat, because it was predicated on KK suddenly taking a big step forward and being ready for top-6 minutes - and also on Evans being ready to step into a top-9 role. In other words, the whole thing depended on two players doing something they’ve never done before, at the key C position. As I’ve said before, that wasn’t planning, it was wishful thinking.

 

Now we are looking at relying on Evans (!) to suddenly vault two steps up rather than one, and fourth-liners playing up the lineup.

 

That is what bad teams look like: they have a bunch of guys playing too high up in the depth chart, due to a lack of any viable alternative.

 

By the 20 game mark, with that configuration, we could already be watching the season slip away. Then we have to make a desperation move (or else accept that we are tanking).

 

That’s no way to run a rodeo.

 

If we lose KK, MB has to make finding a quality #2C an absolute top priority - and a somewhat urgent priority at that, unless we wish to throw the season.

Offer shat. Love it.

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