Fanpuck33 Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 hour ago, titanfan said: Which is why I can't understand why everyone is putting Caufield in on the first line. Seriously? He has played all of 10 regular season games. He looked good. But he hasn't even earned a roster spot yet, let alone the first line? It would be great if he EARNS that spot, but he could just as easily be in Laval by the end of November. And, let's be clear, I really like Cole. I really do. But he hasn't PROVEN anything yet. Reminds me a lot of Carey Price's career trajectory when they kept giving him the job Halak had earned. Worked out pretty well. Like Price, Caufield has an it factor about him. He was instantly their most dangerous player and will have to play his way out of a major role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, Fanpuck33 said: Like Price, Caufield has an it factor about him. He was instantly their most dangerous player and will have to play his way out of a major role. Yup. Caulfield will have to play his way out of a job. He and Nick developed great chemistry and let's not forget he did it in the playoffs when time and space is harder to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 4 hours ago, Habsfan89 said: I for one don't understand why Bergevin signed Paquette and Perreault to begin with other than to keep the French media off his back for lack of French players. We have the depth on the wings. I would of kept that 4th line center spot open for someone to try and win a spot in camp and preseason. Because capable veteran depth is a good thing. Let's say those two don't sign. That makes the 4C battle between Poehling and Vejdemo. Poehling should be in the minors if he's only going to be on the fourth line (18-20 minutes a night in the AHL is much more valuable than 8 minutes in the NHL from a long-term development standpoint) and Vejdemo might be a fourth liner if everything went well. That's pretty lousy depth with minimal injury insurance. Add Paquette to the mix (Perreault hasn't been a centre for years and won't be one in Montreal) and all of a sudden, he can be the 4C, Poehling can get ample development time in the minors and be ready for a bigger role if one of Montreal's centres gets hurt, and Vejdemo is available if multiple players go down. That's a much better scenario than the first one both from a short-term competitiveness standpoint and for Poehling's long-term development. Poehling has some upside and could be a 3C down the road but he still doesn't have a lot of AHL game action under his belt. Unless he comes in and earns the 3C spot in camp ahead of Evans, I wouldn't have him anywhere near the NHL roster to start the season, even with a decent camp. Take advantage of his remaining waiver exemption and have him develop in all facets, not just being a physical grinder on the fourth line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 6 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: but, that is what this thread is for !? 2021/2022 Lineup Ideas Penciling in kids for major roles is a BAD idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: Penciling in kids for major roles is a BAD idea. Remind me, what’s your lineup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Well, it depends on how they play the lines; but if they use the traditional 1st line gets 22+ mins I think I'd like to see: Drouin / Suzuki / Caufield (1st scoring line) Hoffman / Poehling / Anderson (2nd scoring line) Toffoli / Dvorak / Gallagher (checking shutdown line) Lehkonen / Evans / Armia However, if they play all 4 lines avg 15mins +/- 1:30mins; I'd do this: Toffoli / Suzuki / Anderson Hoffman / Dvorak / Gallagher Drouin / Poehling / Caufield Lehkonen / Evans / Armia My reasoning: crystal meth. No, but I think if Suzuki's ceiling is 70-80 pts he will get that without playing with Caufield. Same with Caufield, he should get the same amount of pts not playing with Suzuki. If you split them up their linemates should get more points than they would not playing with them. ex: Poehling might get 60 pts playing with Caufield, but wont get anywhere close to 60 playing with anyone else. Theres so many combos that could be done, and that would totally work, but which combos will maximize all players output? Getting the maximum amount of points out of every player is the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Nobody is more leery of pencilling in kids for major roles than me. However, there are exceptions. I think it is possible that CC may be one. I remember watching him during the playoffs and thinking, ‘this kid just might be a special player.’ This is not something I ever thought about KK or Galy based on their play. He has earned a roster spot - at least for now - and there is no point in putting a guy like that on your fourth line. Let’s see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Nobody is more leery of pencilling in kids for major roles than me. However, there are exceptions. I think it is possible that CC may be one. I remember watching him during the playoffs and thinking, ‘this kid just might be a special player.’ This is not something I ever thought about KK or Galy Chucky based on their play. He has earned a roster spot - at least for now - and there is no point in putting a guy like that on your fourth line. Let’s see how it goes. fixed that for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 10 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said: Well, it depends on how they play the lines; but if they use the traditional 1st line gets 22+ mins I think I'd like to see: ... I was actually surprised to find this ... in the last 20 years no Habs' forward has received 22 minutes or more TOI (which includes PP and PK as well as 5-on-5) ... from 2012-13 to date no Habs forward got 20 minutes TOI ... in the last three seasons only three forwards got over 18 minutes per game ... in 19/20 Kovalchuk (18:54) and Danault (18:51), and last season Suzuki (18:11). I expect the Suzuki and Dvorak lines to both get 19-20 minutes ... 17-18 if the Habs acquire a legit 3C, or Evans or Poehling prove they are a legit, all-round 3C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 30 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: .. This is not something I ever thought about KK or Galy Chucky based on their play. ... 13 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: fixed that for you I agree with you ... but at one point (initially) were not some using Galy for Galchenyuk and Gally for Gallagher ... which was obviously untenable ... but perhaps CC never gave it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 I've been calling him "Galy" all along... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I've been calling him "Galy" all along... I know you have. You have been pretty constant about that ... and also on not counting on prospects for meaningful roles on the team which puzzles me with regards to Caufield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 hours ago, GHT120 said: I agree with you ... but at one point (initially) were not some using Galy for Galchenyuk and Gally for Gallagher ... which was obviously untenable ... but perhaps CC never gave it up. The team called Galchenyuk Chucky. after he left the team, it probably changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 25 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I know you have. You have been pretty constant about that ... and also on not counting on prospects for meaningful roles on the team which puzzles me with regards to Caufield In the case of Caufield, I do not see how you can take a kid who was an impact player in the playoff run and throw him back to the minors. Maybe if he has a horrible training camp. But sending him down would seem terribly unfair and crash up against the logic that says guys have to earn their spots. He did, surely, and not just because the Habs had no other options or were looking for a quick PR hit. He genuinely forced his way onto the team and made himself indispensable. As I note earlier, there also appears be something “special” about Caufield. This may or may not prove to be illusory. But he is closer to Gallagher (or Price) in coming up and really making a major impact, than to Chucky (fine, I will use this dumb nickname) or KK, who came in and looked all right but didn’t really take over shifts and make a difference the way Caufield reliably did this playoff. All that said, if Caufield disappears over December/January I would not be shocked at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: In the case of Caufield, I do not see how you can take a kid who was an impact player in the playoff run and throw him back to the minors. Maybe if he has a horrible training camp. But sending him down would seem terribly unfair and crash up against the logic that says guys have to earn their spots. He did, surely, and not just because the Habs had no other options or were looking for a quick PR hit. He genuinely forced his way onto the team and made himself indispensable. As I note earlier, there also appears be something “special” about Caufield. This may or may not prove to be illusory. But he is closer to Gallagher (or Price) in coming up and really making a major impact, than to Chucky (fine, I will use this dumb nickname) or KK, who came in and looked all right but didn’t really take over shifts and make a difference the way Caufield reliably did this playoff. All that said, if Caufield disappears over December/January I would not be shocked at all. Let’s not forget that as a rookie, Nail Yakapov scored 17 goals and 31 points in a 48 game regular season. It’s one thing to come in excited end produce, when teams don’t prepare for you, and I know your strengths/weaknesses/tendencies. It’s a totally different to go through the rigour of an 82 game schedule produce and not be a liability defensively. having said that I am more optimistic of Caufield than I have in any Habs rookie since Subban. Caufield IS a special player. The question is whether in his first full season in the NHL, he will be able to maintain a consistent level of production and a high level of play once the opposition have a game plan to deal with him? is he going to be that truly exceptional player that you know what’s coming, but can’t stop him (like Ovechkin on the hash marks during a PP). Will he be that guy next year, or two years feom now? He is by far the best rookie of the year candidate on our team in the last 25-30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: Let’s not forget that as a rookie, Nail Yakapov scored 17 goals and 31 points in a 48 game regular season. It’s one thing to come in excited end produce, when teams don’t prepare for you, and I know your strengths/weaknesses/tendencies. It’s a totally different to go through the rigour of an 82 game schedule produce and not be a liability defensively. having said that I am more optimistic of Caufield than I have in any Habs rookie since Subban. Caufield IS a special player. The question is whether in his first full season in the NHL, he will be able to maintain a consistent level of production and a high level of play once the opposition have a game plan to deal with him? is he going to be that truly exceptional player that you know what’s coming, but can’t stop him (like Ovechkin on the hash marks during a PP). Will he be that guy next year, or two years feom now? He is by far the best rookie of the year candidate on our team in the last 25-30 years. You're spot on - Subban may be the best parallel for him in that sense. PK came in and was instantly the second-best defenceman on the team. Analogous vibe from Caufield (minus all the racist blowback and ridiculous old-scholl tut-tutting that PK had to put up with, natch). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 I am still reluctant to think of Caufield as the Habs best option to play on the top line. Not because I do not think he can play well and even win the Calder far all the reasons expressed on the forum in the last few days, with regards to Habs prospect development, I much rather have: Drouin-Suzuki-Toffoli Hoffman-Dvorak-Gallagher Armia-Evans-Anderson Perrault-Paquette-Lehkonen And Caufield starting in Laval unless he wins a spot on the NHL top-6 handsdown. I think that a short stint in Laval, playing top minutes and refining his game would be beneficial to him But of course, I am probably the only one that thinks that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: I am still reluctant to think of Caufield as the Habs best option to play on the top line. Not because I do not think he can play well and even win the Calder far all the reasons expressed on the forum in the last few days, with regards to Habs prospect development, I much rather have: Drouin-Suzuki-Toffoli Hoffman-Dvorak-Gallagher Armia-Evans-Anderson Perrault-Paquette-Lehkonen And Caufield starting in Laval unless he wins a spot on the NHL top-6 handsdown. I think that a short stint in Laval, playing top minutes and refining his game would be beneficial to him But of course, I am probably the only one that thinks that Time in the AHL, if properly managed, is never (IMO) a bad thing ... but I expect Caufield to get very chance to show the chemistry he had with Suzuki in the playoffs is real, and that he can handle regular season NHL play ... when players seem to click coaches rarely plan to break it up until it proves not to work ... and I think that with two WJHCs, two NCAA seasons, 10 end-of-season games and the playoff run, all after being drafted, CC is ready to start the season in Montreal ... but I also think it is important to not expect too much offence this season ... despite his "pace" (4 goals in 10 games to finish last regular season ... 30g/80gms), 20 goals would be a very nice rookie season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 9 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: And Caufield starting in Laval unless he wins a spot on the NHL top-6 handsdown. I think that a short stint in Laval, playing top minutes and refining his game would be beneficial to him But of course, I am probably the only one that thinks that Well would be better than playing another year in NCAA at least and chances are, at worst wouldnt hurt his game any and i guess he could work on the defensive side of things. 12pts, 15:14/gm in 20playoff games is 'pretty good' showing at NHL level and would an extra 4-5minutes/gm in Laval really be best route? And yes, we all know it wont be happening and he is inked into top six roster spot already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyrealist Posted September 8, 2021 Author Share Posted September 8, 2021 Some good points for sure, as much as I’d love to see Jo hit his stride and play engaged as we’ve seen bits of and hit 60-70 points, I Can’t see why we’d expect Drouin to come back and play top 6, let alone top line. He couldn’t do that yet in his career. Agreed, CC needs to look strong to warrant staying in NHL and only in top 6 role. I believe he will. My take now that KK is gone: Toffolli-Suzuki-Caufield Hoffman-Dvorak-Anderson Drouin-Pacquette-Gallagher Lehkonen-Evans-Armia These lines fit with the Habs desire to roll four lines that can all score, skate and defend. I don’t see that mentality changing in one short off-season. These lines can all do this. First line is proven offense and can handle top opposition based on experience (assuming Toff is healthy). 2nd line has two way middle, strong forecheck from Andy and a proven finisher, maybe flip Hoffman and Toffolli as well. Drouin/Pacquette can be the new French Connection with Gally causing havoc and bein generally strong all over ice, he and Pacquette can insulate Drouin so he can be more creative. Thay fourth line could be best in the league and take over for Suzuki’s line should we need to just shut down an opponent and free up Suzuki to exploit a lower skilled line, I’d feel ok with this fourth line out against almost any opponent and know we’d at least shut them down. Joel Petry (heh heh, see what I did there) French Flex (Chiarot/Savard) Romy - Kulak/Wideman (whomever looks best in camp gets nod, but I believe Wideman has edge and will play 2nd pp). PK1: Dvorak-Armia Chiarot-Savard PK2: Evans/Pacquette-Lehks Eddy-Romy PP1: Caufield-Suzuki-Hoffman Petry-Drouin PP2: Toffolli-Dvorak-Anderson/Gally Wideman-Romy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-mailbag-drouin-best-match-suzuki-caufield-duo/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 On 9/7/2021 at 5:31 PM, alfredoh2009 said: And Caufield starting in Laval unless he wins a spot on the NHL top-6 handsdown. I think that a short stint in Laval, playing top minutes and refining his game would be beneficial to him But of course, I am probably the only one that thinks that Perhaps not the only one but one of the few. I really don't think there is much to refine. Caulfield is ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyrealist Posted September 10, 2021 Author Share Posted September 10, 2021 11 hours ago, DON said: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-mailbag-drouin-best-match-suzuki-caufield-duo/ Man does the writer ever try to get creative with their lines, terrible use of off wing players who have rarely done it in past. And then writer completely hedges every suggestion they’ve made at end of article. Ive said it before, saying it again. JoDro is not a top line, let alone top 6 players. Give him the lower quality opposition, lower expectations that come with third line and let him shine, along with PP time but as of yet in his career he has yet to show he can maintain a top 6 role successfully. Seems against his personal, professional best interests to put him in a spot where he will have high expectations, high visibility, high pressure. He says the right things (just like when traded here) but in reality has shown he cannot deliver and the pressures get to him. Anyone who has seems his career and time with Habs should be aware of this and see the best chance to maximize his value, see personal/professional success is to let him work away from the glare of expectation. Third line with Pacquette at C and either Gallagher or Anderson on wing and let him rock the point position on PP1 with Petry. To put him in a high visibility and high pressure role this season is downright disrespectful to his situation last season regardless of what went on. He will still get more than his fair share of ice time given the PP time as a quarterback feeding Petry, Hoffman and CC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Not sure would place alot of importance on exactly who plays with who...in the 1st game that Habs are getting beat bad, they will switch it up pretty quick. I wonder what is average time a set of three plays together on any team? But, likely obvious that a duo is much more likely to stick for extended time and maybe finding those best combos is more key (Suzuki-Caufield, Dvorak-Gallagher, Lehkonen-Evans...)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 52 minutes ago, DON said: Not sure would place alot of importance on exactly who plays with who...in the 1st game that Habs are getting beat bad, they will switch it up pretty quick. I wonder what is average time a set of three plays together on any team? But, likely obvious that a duo is much more likely to stick for extended time and maybe finding those best combos is more key (Suzuki-Caufield, Dvorak-Gallagher, Lehkonen-Evans...)? Lines really have not been static in the NHL in decades. You're right, we're much more likely to see stable or semi-stable "duos" up front than trios. Suzuki-Caufield is particularly exciting to contemplate, at least in the longer-term; growing pains are almost certainly assured this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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