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What goes around comes around Carolina pay back Kotkaniemi offer sheet


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18 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Obviously ... wonder if KK thought that out or just saw $$$$$$?

 

I say let him go ... it is a ridiculous contract ... would also keep an eye on the Hurricanes extending KK at the first opportunity to do so for a more reasonable AAV ... would stink of pre-arranged CBA circumvention, but expect they would get away with it ... it is the only way this makes any sense to me ... KK just isn't worth $6.1 at the moment, and it is a big gamble that he will be for 22/23 (i.e., qualify or let him walk)

 

Something tells me the $6.1 million would make the sting of playing on the wing for a year a little less painful.

 

An in-season extension is definitely legal and I wouldn't put it past the Habs to try to do that if they were to wind up matching.  But with Kotkaniemi basically guaranteed his qualifying offer (he could be taken him to arbitration with a $5.185 minimum offer under a little-known CBA rule but that can only happen once), there has to be some pretty good incentive for him to do that; the extension wouldn't be for much cheaper.

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I really think this is a mistake by Carolina.  They will end up paying 6.1 million for KK and a 1st and a 3rd and then probably let him go for nothing a year from now.  Plus they will have to worry about offer sheets on all their players for the next 5 years, and not just from the Habs.

 

  It seems like a funny revenge move now but in the long run it makes trouble for them and they get almost nothing out of it.

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2 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

How much would they have had to pay him on a long-term deal, including some UFA years?

 

Tough one to answer, I am guessing between 4 and 5.  The biggest mistake the Habs made was burning a year of his entry level deal when he was 18 otherwise they wouldn't have to deal with this crap. 

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29 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

1. Habs are already screwed at centre in terms of expecting to be a playoff contender of any sort (IMO)

2. He would be the second highest paid forward ... Gallagher's $6.6 AAV deal kicks in this season

3. Lock him up at what AAV?  KK would have had to be willing to sign ... Habs playing to win in the immediate moment in these past playoffs and sitting him out may have spoiled any chance.

 

Time to tear-down?  Only Gallagher (6 team per CapFriendly), Drouin (3), Anderson (8), Petry (15), Chiarot (10) and Edmundson (10) have any sort of NTC ... and at this point might well be willing to waive even for some of the teams on their NTC list ... load up on first rounders for next summer's' draft at the Bell Centre?

 

 

I think the Habs would have been in pretty decent shape at centre if KK really progressed this year but that is a big if.  It certainly makes you think about a tear down. If MB doesn't match then we are most definitely taking a step back this year and if you are going to be bad then you might as well be really bad. 

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5 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I think the Habs would have been in pretty decent shape at centre ***IF*** KK really progressed this year but that is a big if.  It certainly makes you think about a tear down. If MB doesn't match then we are most definitely taking a step back this year and if you are going to be bad then you might as well be really bad. 

 

literally a big "if" ... and the next two drafts are supposed to be the best in many, many years ... so if the habs are going to be Suzuki, Evans, Poehling and one of the old guys might as well optimize their position.

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This just compounds how poorly MB and DD have played their KK hand

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Peter Puck said:

I really think this is a mistake by Carolina.  They will end up paying 6.1 million for KK and a 1st and a 3rd and then probably let him go for nothing a year from now.  Plus they will have to worry about offer sheets on all their players for the next 5 years, and not just from the Habs.

 

  It seems like a funny revenge move now but in the long run it makes trouble for them and they get almost nothing out of it.

I think it’s a brilliant move by Carolina. The habs were actually vulnerable when they made the offer. 1st and 3rd - which will be a late (20+), first round pick, for a 21 year old that can still be an impactful player?? Not bad family to take.

 

Even if they don’t get KK, they screwed us over in our cap situation.

 

im right back to the fire MB camp. He fxcked up to this off-season. Didn’t get the big upgrade needed on D, and now may lose a guy who is expected to be part of the young core.  Basically, we put ourselves at risk, by signing at best a #4 dman, and a guy like a Hoffman, before we secured our own key RFA’s.  Other teams made sure they made room to match any RFA offer sheets, or signed their key RFA’s.

 

we have to match, but it means, you now need to look at moving a guy like Gallagher to make sure we have cap room for Caufield and Suzuki.

 

it would be horrible asset management to let a a centre at KK’s afe and potential  to go for a late 1st and a 3rd (or is it 2nd).  From draft day onward, MB has fxcked up. Looks like a rookie GM.

 

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What a twat. Let him walk & take the picks. The fact that he thinks he's worth that much is delusional. He played along with Carolina to screw the Habs. Let him go. At least Aho's contract was affordable. Was actually too low. Bergy did Waddell a favor lol. Bye Bye KK. Dirt bag.

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We don’t know the content of the contract discussions between Bergevin and Kotkaniemi/agent. But clearly they were not so close to a number that he would have been happy with, otherwise he wouldn’t have signed the offer sheet.

 

Another factor may have been Ducharme’s usage of Kotkaniemi kast season, although it would have likely been clear to Kotkaniemi that a 2C spot was his for the taking this year.

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2 minutes ago, nihilz said:

What a twat. Let him walk & take the picks. The fact that he thinks he's worth that much is delusional. He played along with Carolina to screw the Habs. Let him go. At least Aho's contract was affordable. Was actually too low. Bergy did Waddell a favor lol. Bye Bye KK. Dirt bag.

You KK is a tweed for turning down an offer sheet to become a $6m man🙄

 

Shame on him for not accepting his qualifying offer by a team that sat him at  the end of the playoffs🙄

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2 minutes ago, nihilz said:

What a twat. Let him walk & take the picks. The fact that he thinks he's worth that much is delusional. He played along with Carolina to screw the Habs. Let him go. At least Aho's contract was affordable. Was actually too low. Bergy did Waddell a favor lol. Bye Bye KK. Dirt bag.

If someone offered you $6M/year to do your current job, would you take it? Or tell them to piss off because you are not worth that much?

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12 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think it’s a brilliant move by Carolina. The habs were actually vulnerable when they made the offer. 1st and 3rd - which will be a late (20+), first round pick, for a 21 year old that can still be an impactful player?? Not bad family to take.

 

Even if they don’t get KK, they screwed us over in our cap situation.

 

im right back to the fire MB camp. He fxcked up to this off-season. Didn’t get the big upgrade needed on D, and now may lose a guy who is expected to be part of the young core.  Basically, we put ourselves at risk, by signing at best a #4 dman, and a guy like a Hoffman, before we secured our own key RFA’s.  Other teams made sure they made room to match any RFA offer sheets, or signed their key RFA’s.

 

we have to match, but it means, you now need to look at moving a guy like Gallagher to make sure we have cap room for Caufield and Suzuki.

 

it would be horrible asset management to let a a centre at KK’s afe and potential  to go for a late 1st and a 3rd (or is it 2nd).  From draft day onward, MB has fxcked up. Looks like a rookie GM.

 

We  don't have to match.  If KK turns into a star this year and we don't match then yes Carolina made a good move.  But if we let him go, no matter how well he plays they will have to offer him 5+ million next year or lose him for nothing after giving up a 1st and 3rd.   No one thinks he is worth that salary now.   I don't think he will be worth 5+ million a year from now. 

 

  I agree this screws us over but that doesn't really help the Hurricanes.    They are going to overpay for KK and the only reason I can see is that they want to get revenge.    From my point of view exacting revenge is not a good way to make decisions.

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This is more proof that, instead of making a pointless, easily-matched offer sheet to Aho, MB should have either gone all in and overpaid, OR not bothered in the first place. The ultimate result of his half-asserey is to either lose KK or suffer a ridiculous overpay for a kid who has proven nothing.

 

I let Carolina have him, and basically accept that we are a bottom-5 team this season given our comical inadequacy at C.

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41 minutes ago, Peter Puck said:

I really think this is a mistake by Carolina.  They will end up paying 6.1 million for KK and a 1st and a 3rd and then probably let him go for nothing a year from now.  Plus they will have to worry about offer sheets on all their players for the next 5 years, and not just from the Habs.

 

 It seems like a funny revenge move now but in the long run it makes trouble for them and they get almost nothing out of it.

 

They wouldn't have done this JUST for revenge. They're not just going to let him walk if Montreal doesn't match. And what does this have to do with having to worry about offer sheets for the next 5 years?

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2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

This is more proof that, instead of making a pointless, easily-matched offer sheet to Aho, MB should have either gone all in and overpaid, OR not bothered in the first place. The ultimate result of his half-asserey is to either lose KK or suffer a ridiculous overpay for a kid who has proven nothing.

 

I let Carolina have him, and basically accept that we are a bottom-5 team this season given our comical inadequacy at C.

 

Exactly.

 

Let him go. He'll be the Canes cap issue moving forward. They'll regret it. Silly business move.

 

We should now focus on playing the kids and aiming for a top prospect this draft.

 

Fxuk KK.

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8 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

This is more proof that, instead of making a pointless, easily-matched offer sheet to Aho, MB should have either gone all in and overpaid, OR not bothered in the first place. The ultimate result of his half-asserey is to either lose KK or suffer a ridiculous overpay for a kid who has proven nothing.

 

I let Carolina have him, and basically accept that we are a bottom-5 team this season given our comical inadequacy at C.

it’s our comical inadequacy at centre that, that makes me feel we need to match. Keep in mind, that this should actually have been KK’s first year in the NHL. Playing him during his draft year was a blunder - and I said as much at that time. It hurt his development, and allowed him to become an RFA a lot earlier than he should have.

 

MB seems to have a take it or leave it negotiating style (resulted in as losing Markov and ending up with Alzner).  There is no way he should have signed Savard or Hoffman, without signing our RFA’s, or shedding other high price contracts. 
 

KK showed he can be a difference makers in the playin and playoffs. Just has not shown he can be a  consistent top six player.  I would rather match and  gamble that KK becomes a legit 2nd line centre, than take a 1st pick that gives us choices in the same range as the Tinordi, McCarron, Schrebak, Juulsen, and Poehling. We have zero depth after him.  What would hurt more than his qualifying offer next year is for him to break out in Carolina.

 
 

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11 minutes ago, Fanpuck33 said:

 

They wouldn't have done this JUST for revenge. They're not just going to let him walk if Montreal doesn't match. And what does this have to do with having to worry about offer sheets for the next 5 years?

 

I think revenge is a big part of it.  Paying 6.1M for KK really screws the Habs. I don't think anyone else out there was going to pay that much for him.  They let Dougie Hamilton walk so they had the cap space to screw the Habs. I don't see it as a brilliant move by Carolina.  So they screw the Habs by paying 6.1M for KK. If the Habs don't match and KK turns into nothing more than a mediocre player then it won't look very brilliant. 

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10 minutes ago, Fanpuck33 said:

 

They wouldn't have done this JUST for revenge. They're not just going to let him walk if Montreal doesn't match. And what does this have to do with having to worry about offer sheets for the next 5 years?

  Do you think he is worth 6.1 million now and going forward?  If so we could match and there is no problem.  If he's not then Carolina is going to have to overpay to keep him or else let him walk.

 

  This is a dick move by Carolina and every team is going to see that.  This means there will be no reticence about offer sheeting any of their players, starting with Martin Necas one year from now.  Their players will all know this.  If you were Martin Necas would you sign next year for anything less than an over payment?

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4 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

it’s our comical inadequacy at centre that, that makes me feel we need to match. Keep in mind, that this should actually have been KK’s first year in the NHL. Playing him during his draft year was a blunder - and I said as much at that time. It hurt his development, and allowed him to become an RFA a lot earlier than he should have.

 

MB seems to have a take it or leave it negotiating style (resulted in as losing Markov and ending up with Alzner).  There is no way he should have signed Savard or Hoffman, without signing our RFA’s, or shedding other high price contracts. 
 

KK showed he can be a difference makers in the playin and playoffs. Just has not shown he can be a  consistent top six player.  I would rather match and  gamble that KK becomes a legit 2nd line centre, than take a 1st pick that gives us choices in the same range as the Tinordi, McCarron, Schrebak, Juulsen, and Poehling. We have zero depth after him.  What would hurt more than his qualifying offer next year is for him to break out in Carolina.

 
 

 

It’s a great point about bringing him up too soon. Dumb mistakes just keep on giving.

 

4 minutes ago, Peter Puck said:

  Do you think he is worth 6.1 million now and going forward?  If so we could match and there is no problem.  If he's not then Carolina is going to have to overpay to keep him or else let him walk.

 

  This is a dick move by Carolina and every team is going to see that.  This means there will be no reticence about offer sheeting any of their players, starting with Martin Necas one year from now.  Their players will all know this.  If you were Martin Necas would you sign next year for anything less than an over payment?

 

Certainly a dick move, but MB’s offer sheet to Aho was also perceived that way. I don’t think this will mean open season on Carolina RFAs. The NHL Old Boys will see it as tit for tat and smugly be happy that MB got what was coming to him for trying an offer sheet in the first place.

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1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It’s a great point about bringing him up too soon. Dumb mistakes just keep on giving.

 

 

Certainly a dick move, but MB’s offer sheet to Aho was also perceived that way. I don’t think this will mean open season on Carolina RFAs. The NHL Old Boys will see it as tit for tat and smugly be happy that MB got what was coming to him for trying an offer sheet in the first place.

 

It is a dick move. Sure Carolina was upset about the offer sheet for Aho but at least that offer was basically in the context of the market for a young stud centre who had proven himself.  The 1 year offer for KK is way over market.  They did it basically to screw the Habs. 

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24 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

It is a dick move. Sure Carolina was upset about the offer sheet for Aho but at least that offer was basically in the context of the market for a young stud centre who had proven himself.  The 1 year offer for KK is way over market.  They did it basically to screw the Habs. 

 

Yes. But in the context of the NHL old boy network, an offer sheet is somehow considered against The Code. MB violated that code, so in their eyes, he was the dick who is now getting his just desserts. I’m not defending it, but that’s the way it is, I believe.

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I think MB should let KK walk but...

 

If the argument to keep him is on the pay alone being the problem:

I can see this solution... they could figure out an extension an bring over all $ amount down starting next year (2022), i would guesstimate a 5.5 over 8yrs and it might require a trade like Byron (even tho I like TiPaul, Man Play like a Lion!!) this would keep the vets tht left dough on the table happy ish and maybe allow Habs in back in low ball salary discussion again with Suzuki.

 

Then again I feel Suzi gonna Bi***h slap this year the league and Habs gonna need McJebus money to keep him :) 

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2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yes. But in the context of the NHL old boy network, an offer sheet is somehow considered against The Code. MB violated that code, so in their eyes, he was the dick who is now getting his just desserts. I’m not defending it, but that’s the way it is, I believe.

 

I don't disagree.  That's why you rarely see an offer sheet.  The management team in Carolina is probably enjoying a few drinks and laughs tonight while MB is having a crappy weekend. 

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