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What goes around comes around Carolina pay back Kotkaniemi offer sheet


Habsfan89
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I get that what's transpiring is frustrating, but I wish fans would forget about the whole "punish KK!" narrative. You don't get anywhere punishing players for acting like sensible businessmen; nor is wasting good hockey assets for the satisfaction of screwing them over the way to build a winning team.

 

Anyway, this particular debacle is entirely on Bergevin. He was the one who made a pointless offer sheet to Aho; he was the one who burned KK's entry-level years to no discernable benefit; and he is the one who did not lock down KK to an entry-level deal in time to prevent this from happening. This whole mess is 100% of Bergevin's manufacture.

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1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

I call bullshit on the notion of a GM thankful after matching an offer sheet.

 

If the deal is so great that the player signs it  and so great that the GM thanks us, then why this deal hasn't been already signed between the two parties ?

The ONLY way I see that as possible is if the GM was willing to offer the player the amount of the offer sheet (or more) all along but the owner prevented him said he couldn't ... even a cheap owner might change course and loosen the pursestrings if it means getting "beaten" buy another team/owner ... hence a GM could POSSIBLY be thankful for the offer sheet ... but those would be fairly unique/specific circumstances

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16 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Whatever do you mean by that?

 

Do the Flyers have an issue acquiring players and everyone boycots them?  That's exactly the Flyers and Bobby Clarke were doing to Lindros.  Guess what, kk ain't no Lindros.  😉

 

That isn't even close to being comparable. 

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59 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I get that what's transpiring is frustrating, but I wish fans would forget about the whole "punish KK!" narrative. You don't get anywhere punishing players for acting like sensible businessmen; nor is wasting good hockey assets for the satisfaction of screwing them over the way to build a winning team.

 

Anyway, this particular debacle is entirely on Bergevin. He was the one who made a pointless offer sheet to Aho; he was the one who burned KK's entry-level years to no discernable benefit; and he is the one who did not lock down KK to an entry-level deal in time to prevent this from happening. This whole mess is 100% of Bergevin's manufacture.

 

Agree, punishing KK serves no useful purpose at all. How can anybody  blame him for accepting that contract. 

 

Sure, if Bergevin hadn't made the offer for Aho this likely wouldn't have happened but no point in crying over spilt milk and we have no idea who played hardball in negotiations between MB and KK.  Not every move a GM makes is going to work out. MB is a GM who takes chances, some don't work out and this is one that backfired.

 

The big question is what do the Habs do now?  I have changed my mind many times on what they should do. Right now I am thinking they should match and hopefully KK develops into a stud centre as stud centres are hard to find.

 

Will this make KK the highest paid 21 year old in NHL history? 

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  I have been thinking about how this whole situation plays out in Carolina.  Of course this is only of peripheral interest to the Habs but it might play a role in what happens to KK a year from now if we don't match.

 

  My question is the following.  What will the Canes players think about this off season and their GM and their owner?   They let a promising young goaltender go for practically nothing.  They let Hamilton walk because they didn't want to spend 3 million a year more for him.  Now they sign KK for a ridiculous amount clearly to poke their finger in the Habs eye.  

 

  I suspect they will have a number of players wishing they had kept Hamilton and Nedeljkovic.  I don't think those players will be very happy.  It doesn't send the message that their number one goal is a cup.  Can anyone argue that signing KK and letting last year's stars leave is a good hockey decision?

 

It also makes it clear that their GM is not really in control of hockey decisions. 

 

   Finally how many of them will want large raises since the team is spending 6 million on KK.

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22 minutes ago, Peter Puck said:

It also makes it clear that their GM is not really in control of hockey decisions. 

 

   Finally how many of them will want large raises since the team is spending 6 million on KK.

That all good stuff to hear, as  a Habs fan.

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2 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Is is true that KK can't be extended before Jan?  That would ruin my idea.

 

If kk could be extended before Jan, and I was the owner I'd have the GM match and then immediately extend KK to a long term 8-10 yr contract worth 5-6 mil/yr.  Then, right before the season starts and he'd have to pass waivers, I'd send kk to Laval with intent and purpose of leaving him there for the entirety of the contract.  i.e. kk wants to be spoiled lil baby being benched for 1 game in the Cup Final, see how he likes being benched for his career.  If that scenario was possible that's exactly what I do if I was worth Mr Burns type money.  You know, "kk, cut your side burns" 

 

Correct, Kotkaniemi cannot be extended until January 1st at a minimum.  The max term of an extension, by the way, is eight years. 

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8 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

LoL


It would be funny if it wasn’t sad how many fans defend this guy.  He’s been awful since before coming here…and done nothing but play politics to protect himself since. 

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8 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I see no reason at all to infer that KK “wanted out.” His agent was negotiating. Carolina offered him way more money than any team in the league would have done, including the Habs. Accepting the offer sheet was probably just a straightforward business decision.

 

 

It's hard to tell 1 way or the other right now because more information is needed to really know what happened.  i.e. did MB royally screw up the negotiations with kk? ex:  low ball offers; or was kk being offered fair contracts and was being an over privileged spoiled turd of a brat that was being purposely impossible and kept turning them down? 

 

Either way, I dont believe it to be a straightforward business decision.  We need to know what is currently unknown.  

 

Ironically, I tend to get the impression that the Cannes dont even really want kk.  Why is it a 1 year offer sheet?  Has a 1 yr RFA offer sheet ever even happened before? Those contracts are usually for a super long time.  The Cannes have enough good young prospects that is almost seems like they're willing to throw away a 1st and 3rd rnd pick just to kick MB in the groin over his Aho offer sheet.  

 

8 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Agree, there is no proof whether he wanted out ... but there is also no proof he didn't ... we can't know.

 

I also agree that when props are due they should be given, and when slams are due they should be delivered as well.

 

Darren Dregger on TSN says that sources close to kk knew he had played his last game with the Habs.  If an RFA offer sheet hadnt been given kk might have been close to demanding a trade. 

 

It's important to know those facts in order to be able to formulate a proper opinion on what happened and who is the "bad guy" in this scenario.  Until more facts are known we are all just speculating as to whose fault this is. 

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1 minute ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

It's hard to tell 1 way or the other right now because more information is needed to really know what happened.  i.e. did MB royally screw up the negotiations with kk? ex:  low ball offers; or was kk being offered fair contracts and was being an over privileged spoiled turd of a brat that was being purposely impossible and kept turning them down? 

 

Either way, I dont believe it to be a straightforward business decision.  We need to know what is currently unknown.  

 

Ironically, I tend to get the impression that the Cannes dont even really want kk.  Why is it a 1 year offer sheet?  Has a 1 yr RFA offer sheet ever even happened before? Those contracts are usually for a super long time.  The Cannes have enough good young prospects that is almost seems like they're willing to throw away a 1st and 3rd rnd pick just to kick MB in the groin over his Aho offer sheet. 

 

It sounds like Montreal's offers were around the $2.5M range on a two-year bridge deal.  That's pretty much normal value for someone with the type of production he has had and the fact he wasn't arbitration-eligible.  He wasn't being low-balled if that was the case.

 

This isn't the first one-year offer sheet but they aren't common.  Within the last 15 years, the only other one-year sheets were Ryan Kesler in 2006 and Steve Bernier in 2008 - both were signed by Vancouver.

 

The term is potentially a bigger poison pill in that it effectively forces Kotkaniemi to keep being qualified at that rate if he wanted to go year-to-year.  Between that and the overpayment in value for next season, it's an ugly contract.  If it was, say, six years at $6.75M, it'd probably be viewed more favourably than this one is.

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1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

It sounds like Montreal's offers were around the $2.5M range on a two-year bridge deal.  That's pretty much normal value for someone with the type of production he has had and the fact he wasn't arbitration-eligible.  He wasn't being low-balled if that was the case.

 

This isn't the first one-year offer sheet but they aren't common.  Within the last 15 years, the only other one-year sheets were Ryan Kesler in 2006 and Steve Bernier in 2008 - both were signed by Vancouver.

 

The term is potentially a bigger poison pill in that it effectively forces Kotkaniemi to keep being qualified at that rate if he wanted to go year-to-year.  Between that and the overpayment in value for next season, it's an ugly contract.  If it was, say, six years at $6.75M, it'd probably be viewed more favourably than this one is.

Agreed, a long term at this cap hit would be much better

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13 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Well ... if this agent was holding out for a ridiculous number than MB can't be blamed ... but I'd bet it was the other way around ... my guess is that 2yrs @$3M per season would have gotten a deal done ... a slight overpayment in my mind, but once Carolina called about a trade I would hope that MB would have made an offer to get the deal done.

 

But why did Carolina call for a trade. There must be a reason for that, cuz why do you call the Habs that already lost a centre and did just play the SC final, so have a good team and you dont wanna blow that up more, to stay competitive
So maybe someone informed the Canes that KK wanted out...otherwise i cant understand you wanne trade for him, and think the habs will do it.

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15 hours ago, GHT120 said:

The ONLY way I see that as possible is if the GM was willing to offer the player the amount of the offer sheet (or more) all along but the owner prevented him said he couldn't ... even a cheap owner might change course and loosen the pursestrings if it means getting "beaten" buy another team/owner ... hence a GM could POSSIBLY be thankful for the offer sheet ... but those would be fairly unique/specific circumstances

Good point.

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6 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

I think MB needs to aggressively work the phones this week to get a centre. If he can't, he should pay the money. No way Poehling can step into a 2nd line centre role. Or Evans. 

 

The problem with that  is that every GM in the league knows MB is desperate. That is not when good deals are made.

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1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

The problem with that  is that every GM in the league knows MB is desperate. That is not when good deals are made.

Sure. But he has probably half a dozen or so options he can pursue (yeah, not all equally good), so the other GMs cannot get too greedy.

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7 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I would find it hilarious if MB let KK leave but he offersheeted Ryan Suzuki next year :)

 

Ryan's ELC runs through the 23/24 season ... but Martin Necas, Ethan Bear and Tony Deangelo are all RFAs next July 1st.

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3 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Ryan's ELC runs through the 23/24 season ... but Martin Necas, Ethan Bear and Tony Deangelo are all RFAs next July 1st.

Ah! I just saw the RFA besides R.Suzuki next year

 

oh, well

 

Necas would be great!

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Drafting KK was a mistake as Habs should have drafted Tkachuk. Most kinda knew that then. Strike one.

 

KK should have been dealt early last year for PLD. Some were calling for that but didn't want to rock the boat with the strong start. Strike two.

 

KK's offer sheet should not be matched.... He will become a problem in the locker room and has no motivation to play now. Take the picks and move on. He's Carolina's headache now along with DeAngelo. 

 

Three strikes and you are out if you do.

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6 minutes ago, Longstreet said:

Drafting KK was a mistake as Habs should have drafted Tkachuk. Most kinda knew that then. 

Dont recall that?

KK should have been dealt early last year for PLD. 

Really, could be ?

.... He will become a problem in the locker room and has no motivation to play now. 

That is unlikely the case, but what do i know?

 

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If we’re doing the shoulda-woulda thing, then the Habs should have drafted Quinn Hughes, as a certain Commandant argued at the time.

 

And failing that they should have let KK develop properly in the minors rather than lurching him in and out of the lineup at this level.

 

Spilt milk. Let him go and move forward. 

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21 minutes ago, Longstreet said:

Drafting KK was a mistake as Habs should have drafted Tkachuk. Most kinda knew that then. Strike one.

 

KK should have been dealt early last year for PLD. Some were calling for that but didn't want to rock the boat with the strong start. Strike two.

 

KK's offer sheet should not be matched.... He will become a problem in the locker room and has no motivation to play now. Take the picks and move on. He's Carolina's headache now along with DeAngelo. 

 

Three strikes and you are out if you do.

I doubt he suddenly goes from well liked team mate to cancer if he stays with the Habs. The fans could turn on him though. I think if he can be replaced with an elite centre, you match it. He's only 21. He's a lanky kid, still growing into his body. His ceiling is too high to give up on. The defensive ability and hockey IQ are already there. KK has a ceiling of elite first or second line centre. Carolinas pick at 15 or lower overall is not enough.  If I'm MB, I match the offer and look to get him locked up long term by seasons end.

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How to fix this.... Let Kotkaniemi go

 

Offer Dahlin a 5 year 6mil offer sheet 

 

Then you trade Evans, Chiarot, Armia to PHX for Dvorak PHX would be saving 1.5mil in this deal. 

 

Team would then look like this next year 

 

Hoffman  / Suzuki  / Caufeild 

Toffoli  / Dvorak  / Anderson 

Drouin  / Poehling  / Gallagher 

Lehkonen  / Paquette / Perrault 

 

Dahlin  / Petry 

Edmondson  / Savard 

Romanov  / Kulak 

 

Price

Allen 

 

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