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Habs acquire Christian Dvorak


dlbalr

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3 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

I agree with that, but I am conflicted and not sure what my opinion is yet.

 

On one hand, Dvorak is a decent pickup to replace KK; the cost isnt overly high especially considering his salary and contract for 4 years.  However, I was sorta hoping to see Poehling get a much larger opportunity.  

 

Also, I recently read an article where Drouin claimed he was looking forward to playing Centre again.  I sorta thought that was funny, but then again, he would have more talented wingers so that should have to work out way better than before.

 

I think the same with Dvorak too and I'll be shocked if he gets the same amount of points that he got with the Yotes.  He'll probably have career highs with Habs because his new linemates are way better than who he played with on the Yotes.  I can picture him getting 20+ g and 25-30 A with the Habs. 


Well, for me relying upon Poehling to miraculously become a major force as a raw rookie, and on the quintessentially unreliable  Drouin in any important role, would be complete managerial negligence. The addition of Dvorak goes a long way to stabilizing the situation at C…thank heavens.

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with this trade, the Habs have adequately replaced and improved on Danault. They did not lose any prospect, got an extra draft pick (3rd). And only look weaker on D from the loss of Weber. They may still make the playoffs and surprise

 

They have salary cap room and trade chips to improve the team

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Seems the general consensus is a sort of golf clap for MB. The Canes put him in a tough situation, but in the end we head into next year likely a little stronger.

 

If KK reaches his potential, it’s a loss I. The end, if he underperforms, this is actually a win.

 

Mark me as content for now, and honestly, I’m really excited to see Dvorak as a Hab. Something tells me he’s going to be well-liked by fans and the team alike.

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3 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Also, I recently read an article where Drouin claimed he was looking forward to playing Centre again.  I sorta thought that was funny, but then again, he would have more talented wingers so that should have to work out way better than before.

Drouin has not given interview yet. He made a comment during his golf tournament that he would e ready to play centre if the tam needed him to. He did not claim he was going to do it.

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5 hours ago, dlbalr said:

Just got back. This sucks. Next two drafts are supposed to be pretty good. I still don’t see us being a playoff team. 
 

If we miss the playoffs this is a bad deal. If KK does be up being better than Dvorak (which I think he will), this is a horrible move. Dumb. Dumb. Dumba I would have rather overpaid KK than pick up Savard or Hoffman.

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5 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Ironically this probably makes us a better team this season than if we’d kept KK.

 

Emphasis on the ‘probably’…I have been a bit of a KK skeptic and now I dearly hope I’ll be proved right 

If it makes us better this year (which I don’t think it will), and we miss the playoffs, and KK is better for the following 5 years. Is this a good move?

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5 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Bergevin didn't do badly considering he was in a tough position and had no leverage at all. 

He needed to match, he didn’t. Than he overpaid for Dvorak, when everyone knows that next year’s draft is supposed to be hood and deep, and the following year is also very good. So now we get to ensure we are a bubble team, but one that probably doesn’t make the playoffs.

I can see KK breaking out and us again moving a young player and overpaying for am average player who has probably reached his peak, or is pretty close to it.

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4 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

I agree with that, but I am conflicted and not sure what my opinion is yet.

 

On one hand, Dvorak is a decent pickup to replace KK; the cost isnt overly high especially considering his salary and contract for 4 years.  However, I was sorta hoping to see Poehling get a much larger opportunity.  

 

Also, I recently read an article where Drouin claimed he was looking forward to playing Centre again.  I sorta thought that was funny, but then again, he would have more talented wingers so that should have to work out way better than before.

 

I think the same with Dvorak too and I'll be shocked if he gets the same amount of points that he got with the Yotes.  He'll probably have career highs with Habs because his new linemates are way better than who he played with on the Yotes.  I can picture him getting 20+ g and 25-30 A with the Habs. 

He is a good replacement for what KK was last year. Will he be able to be as good as what KK is projected to be, and shown he can be over short stretches?

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38 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He is a good replacement for what KK was last year. Will he be able to be as good as what KK is projected to be, and shown he can be over short stretches?

 

I see him more as a Danault replacement…Evans moves into the #3 C slot.

 

47 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If it makes us better this year (which I don’t think it will), and we miss the playoffs, and KK is better for the following 5 years. Is this a good move?

 

It all depends on KK’s progression, doesn’t it? I don’t see any obvious reason to expect a huge leap forward next season from him (although it could happen, of course) which is why I suggested we are better with Dvorak, a legitimate and reliable #2C, than KK in the short term. If KK becomes Lars Eller: The Sequel, then the Habs manage to come out of this ahead. If he becomes a 60-point, physical stud, especially at C, then yeah, this is a debacle. 

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56 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I see him more as a Danault replacement…Evans moves into the #3 C slot.

 

 

It all depends on KK’s progression, doesn’t it? I don’t see any obvious reason to expect a huge leap forward next season from him (although it could happen, of course) which is why I suggested we are better with Dvorak, a legitimate and reliable #2C, than KK in the short term. If KK becomes Lars Eller: The Sequel, then the Habs manage to come out of this ahead. If he becomes a 60-point, physical stud, especially at C, then yeah, this is a debacle. 

 

That' what made this a difficult decision is not knowing what KK will turn out to be. I would have preferred they keep the picks but I understand that MB had to do something for a team that lost KK and Danault.  I was worried that the price for Dvorak would have been higher but perhaps Arizona was feeling pressure to shed salary.  At least the pick is top 10 protected which could be huge if the Habs or Carolina falter. I don't see either of them falling to the bottom 10 but you never know as the league is pretty well balanced and all it takes is a key injury to start a downward spiral. If the Habs trajectory next year leaves them outside the playoffs then it is tank time, start shedding salaries for draft picks. 

 

I was still high on KK but I am no scout and the Habs made this decision with better information than I have.  I hope it works out but only time will tell. 

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4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:


Well, for me relying upon Poehling to miraculously become a major force as a raw rookie, and on the quintessentially unreliable  Drouin in any important role, would be complete managerial negligence. The addition of Dvorak goes a long way to stabilizing the situation at C…thank heavens.

 

Well, I didnt say instantly i.e. as a rookie.  There was a log jam of young Centres and he was sorta being buried so a roster spot needed to open up for him or he'd likely end up being traded.  With Suzuki, kk, and Evans it was sort of a problem.   In hindsight, it probably would have made more sense if 1 of the years kk played in the NHL been spent in the AHL and Poehling should have had that NHL opportunity.

 

 

3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

This sucks. Next two drafts are supposed to be pretty good. I still don’t see us being a playoff team. 
 

 

 

The draft being a strong year is another reason not to acquire a C and have Drouin play C could have been interesting.  ex:  keep the picks and just move Drouin to C.  If they suck and miss the playoffs their picks would get better.  Plus, theres a log jam of Wingers so the Habs might have been able to the good ole 2 birds 1 stone thing by simply moving Drouin to C - that would help alleviate that problem because they'd instantly have 1 less winger.   However, @The Chicoutimi Cucumber's comment about stabilizing C is a great argument too. 

 

7 hours ago, GHT120 said:

AND ... he would not be expected to the first line centre ... little less pressure, lower expectations

 

That is an excellent point and a potential explanation as to why Drouin didnt work out at C.  Even with or without Dvorak; Drouin wouldnt likely be 2nd but 3rd C vs #1.  Suzuki is unarguably the #1 C.  That could potentially make a huge difference for Druoin.

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Dvorak replaces Danault as C2... Poehling replaces Kotkaniemi as C3 and Evans is C4. Paquette is in reserve.


So habs go from

Suzuki, Danault, KK, Evans, and Stahl to Suzuki, Dvorak, Poehling, Evans, and Paquette.

 

I like it. The wings were set with Toffoli/Caufield, Hoffman/Anderson, Drouin/Gally, and Lehkonen/Armia with Perrault and Bryon in reserve.

 

It’s a better forward group than last year. Hopefully the D rotation will be Edmundson/Petry, Romanov/Savard, and Chariot/Kulak or Wideman.

 

Team is set.

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48 minutes ago, Longstreet said:

Dvorak replaces Danault as C2... Poehling replaces Kotkaniemi as C3 and Evans is C4. Paquette is in reserve.


So habs go from

Suzuki, Danault, KK, Evans, and Stahl to Suzuki, Dvorak, Poehling, Evans, and Paquette.

 

I like it. The wings were set with Toffoli/Caufield, Hoffman/Anderson, Drouin/Gally, and Lehkonen/Armia with Perrault and Bryon in reserve.

 

It’s a better forward group than last year. Hopefully the D rotation will be Edmundson/Petry, Romanov/Savard, and Chariot/Kulak or Wideman.

 

Team is set.

Sure. If they all are good and ready fir their roles. But being a 2nd line centre on a lousy Arizona team doesn’t mean you are really a 2nd line center. We don’t know if Evans is ready to be a full time #3, or even #4. He certainly showed potential to be at least a #4. But we need to see him over a full year.
 

As far as Poehling goes. Hopefully he turns out to be a #3 centre. But right now we don’t know that. H looked good at the end of the year in the AHL before getting hurt, but he has to show he is ready to:

1 -to be in the NHL 

2 - be a centre in the NHL (May be better as a winger

 

we have to stop forcing young players into the lineup because our GM can’t get legitimate NHL’ers, and playing then at positions they don’t belong in.

 

this team has yet to develop their own puck in the first two years out of their draft year. The two that look good - Suzuki and Caufield, played longer in that minors or in college. The ones who were rushed in have struggled. We also have been crappy at playing players in positions to succeed.

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This team is inadequate at the draft and not sure how Timmins seems to get a hall pass. They seem to use it as trading chips later. Their #1’s have not panned out anywhere since the 2007 draft but for Serge in TB. Hopefully Poehling and Caulfield do but it’s an OMG list. They draft KK ahead of Hughes and Tkachuk in 2018. WTF. Many were scratching their heads when they did that. 

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I still don’t see how Poehling plays into any of this. If he’s so great, then he will crowd out banalities like Paquette and become an NHLer. If he can’t earn a spot on the 4th line, then he shouldn’t be in the league. In no way is he a competitor for Dvorak/Evans/KK.

 

Speaking of Dvorak, there is a credible case to be made that he is basically what we hope KK will become, albeit with less physicality: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-bergevin-may-get-last-laugh-losing-kotkaniemi-offer-sheet/

 

What we’ve seen since Domi told us about him is a strong, two-way centre who’s effective in the slot on the power play and capable as a penalty killer.

Dvorak has also proven to be nearly as efficient scoring goals as he has been at setting them up—he’s got 67 goals and 79 assists since debuting—and he’s won between 51.4 per cent and 55.3 per cent of his faceoffs in each of his last four seasons.

An Eastern Conference executive told us this past Wednesday that he felt Dvorak was unquestionably a second-line centre on a good team and added, “If that guy’s centering your third line, you’re contending for a Stanley Cup.”

A Western-based scout sung the Illinois native’s praises when we touched base with him two hours after Saturday’s news broke.

“I know the player really, really well,” the scout started. “I’ve watched him play a ton over the years. The one thing about him that people probably don’t know is he’s a very competitive, quiet sort of leadership guy. He doesn’t get a lot of credit for that because he’s quiet, but he’s very competitive. He’s not going to play necessarily with tons of physicality, but he’s got a lot of jam, and he’ll go to the net and he’ll take a punch in front of the net if he has to.

“He’s also got really, really good hands. He doesn’t get enough credit for how good his hands are. And lastly, he’s an outstanding kid. I know you hear that about a lot of guys, but he’s a hockey player. He loves the game and he’s a very hard worker.”

We’re talking about the overall profile of a player Kotkaniemi might become, but not the one he’s been for the majority of his time in Montreal.

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9 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If we miss the playoffs this is a bad deal. If KK does be up being better than Dvorak (which I think he will), this is a horrible move. Dumb. Dumb. Dumba I would have rather overpaid KK than pick up Savard or Hoffman.

 

Maybe, maybe not.  The top-10 protection means that if the Habs were to bottom out, they'd keep that pick and transfer Carolina's instead.  Now, if they wound up picking 11th after the lottery, then that would sting a bit more.

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Let's compare a 21 year old Chrstian Dvorak (rookie) with a 21 year old KK (3rd year in the league).

 

Dvorak  in 2016-2017 had 15 goals, 18 assists for 33 points in 78 games.  Per game that's 0.19g, 0.23 a, 0.42 pts.

KK  in 2020-2021 (RS)  had 5 goals, 15 assists for 20 points in 56 games.  Per game that's 0.09g, 0.27 a, 0.36 pts.

KK  in 2020-2021 including playoffs had 10 goals, 18 assists for 28 points in 75 games.  Per game that's 0.13g, 0.24 a, 0.37 pts.

 

Dvokak has improved (slightly) since then.

 

These numbers don't make it seem like KK will end up better.  Plus its clear that C.D. is better defensively and better at faceoffs.

 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I still don’t see how Poehling plays into any of this. If he’s so great, then he will crowd out banalities like Paquette and become an NHLer. If he can’t earn a spot on the 4th line, then he shouldn’t be in the league. In no way is he a competitor for Dvorak/Evans/KK.

 

Speaking of Dvorak, there is a credible case to be made that he is basically what we hope KK will become, albeit with less physicality: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-bergevin-may-get-last-laugh-losing-kotkaniemi-offer-sheet/

 

What we’ve seen since Domi told us about him is a strong, two-way centre who’s effective in the slot on the power play and capable as a penalty killer.

Dvorak has also proven to be nearly as efficient scoring goals as he has been at setting them up—he’s got 67 goals and 79 assists since debuting—and he’s won between 51.4 per cent and 55.3 per cent of his faceoffs in each of his last four seasons.

An Eastern Conference executive told us this past Wednesday that he felt Dvorak was unquestionably a second-line centre on a good team and added, “If that guy’s centering your third line, you’re contending for a Stanley Cup.”

A Western-based scout sung the Illinois native’s praises when we touched base with him two hours after Saturday’s news broke.

“I know the player really, really well,” the scout started. “I’ve watched him play a ton over the years. The one thing about him that people probably don’t know is he’s a very competitive, quiet sort of leadership guy. He doesn’t get a lot of credit for that because he’s quiet, but he’s very competitive. He’s not going to play necessarily with tons of physicality, but he’s got a lot of jam, and he’ll go to the net and he’ll take a punch in front of the net if he has to.

“He’s also got really, really good hands. He doesn’t get enough credit for how good his hands are. And lastly, he’s an outstanding kid. I know you hear that about a lot of guys, but he’s a hockey player. He loves the game and he’s a very hard worker.”

We’re talking about the overall profile of a player Kotkaniemi might become, but not the one he’s been for the majority of his time in Montreal.

 

 

That's good stuff to hear. I have had to admit I don't know much about him but am learning.  Last year he was on pace for approx. 25 goals and 45 points. If he can do that in Montreal, play both ends of the ice, good on faceoffs, be a good team guy then his cap hit is certainly decent value. He will have good line mates in Montreal so perhaps the numbers will get better. My only regret here is we lost KK without knowing what his ceiling was. The Habs messed that up but it might turn out ok.

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I still don’t see how Poehling plays into any of this. If he’s so great, then he will crowd out banalities like Paquette and become an NHLer. If he can’t earn a spot on the 4th line, then he shouldn’t be in the league. In no way is he a competitor for Dvorak/Evans/KK.

 

Speaking of Dvorak, there is a credible case to be made that he is basically what we hope KK will become, albeit with less physicality: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-bergevin-may-get-last-laugh-losing-kotkaniemi-offer-sheet/

 

What we’ve seen since Domi told us about him is a strong, two-way centre who’s effective in the slot on the power play and capable as a penalty killer.

Dvorak has also proven to be nearly as efficient scoring goals as he has been at setting them up—he’s got 67 goals and 79 assists since debuting—and he’s won between 51.4 per cent and 55.3 per cent of his faceoffs in each of his last four seasons.

An Eastern Conference executive told us this past Wednesday that he felt Dvorak was unquestionably a second-line centre on a good team and added, “If that guy’s centering your third line, you’re contending for a Stanley Cup.”

A Western-based scout sung the Illinois native’s praises when we touched base with him two hours after Saturday’s news broke.

“I know the player really, really well,” the scout started. “I’ve watched him play a ton over the years. The one thing about him that people probably don’t know is he’s a very competitive, quiet sort of leadership guy. He doesn’t get a lot of credit for that because he’s quiet, but he’s very competitive. He’s not going to play necessarily with tons of physicality, but he’s got a lot of jam, and he’ll go to the net and he’ll take a punch in front of the net if he has to.

“He’s also got really, really good hands. He doesn’t get enough credit for how good his hands are. And lastly, he’s an outstanding kid. I know you hear that about a lot of guys, but he’s a hockey player. He loves the game and he’s a very hard worker.”

We’re talking about the overall profile of a player Kotkaniemi might become, but not the one he’s been for the majority of his time in Montreal.

Engels always pulls his punches and is neverly overly critical of habs managemt. The comment that he was told if Dvorak is a 3rd line centre you are a cup contender, but he’s going to hour 2nd line centre - just like he was on Arizona and Arizona sucked.   
mid rather have gone into the year picking up an old player - 1 yr cheap deal, and do a reset/rebuild. Dvorak is a better cap hit than Savard and Hoffman, but it was an expensive pickup. MB also fxcked up on the terms for the 1st round pick and he is paying more for Dvorak, than if he had traded him straight up for KK.  Is there anyone here that would have been happy with a  KK for Dvorak straight up trade in July??

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7 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

  Is there anyone here that would have been happy with a  KK for Dvorak straight up trade in July??

 

Nope. The offer sheet made things a lot more complicated though.  MB had to try to make the best of a bad situation because they messed up KK's development.  Being eligible to get an offer sheet when you are barely 21 should never have happened. 

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4 hours ago, Longstreet said:

This team is inadequate at the draft and not sure how Timmins seems to get a hall pass. They seem to use it as trading chips later. Their #1’s have not panned out anywhere since the 2007 draft but for Serge in TB. Hopefully Poehling and Caulfield do but it’s an OMG list. They draft KK ahead of Hughes and Tkachuk in 2018. WTF. Many were scratching their heads when they did that. 

 

Timmins needs to be fired.

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59 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Is there anyone here that would have been happy with a  KK for Dvorak straight up trade in July??

Is there anyone here that would have been happy with Bergevin signing Kotkaniemi to a $6M one-year contract in July?

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12 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Is there anyone here that would have been happy with Bergevin signing Kotkaniemi to a $6M one-year contract in July?

I wouldn’t of been.  My view of the situation is Carolina made a bad decision with the offer sheet on KK for $6.1m.  MB turned those lemons into lemonade by upgrading on KK in the short term, costing only an extra 2nd round pick while gaining a 3rd.

 

Overall I am happy with this situation.  Now in 3 years time if KK reaches his potential, this may look bad, but the future isn’t guaranteed and if KK only tops out at a 2nd line center, this was a win for Montreal.

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I see the centers as:

suzuki

dvorak

evans 

paquette to start the year. Unless Poehling entirely forces his way there.

 

I think more high level AHL play will be good for his developmental into more of a middle 6 C than bottom 6

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