Trade Habs acquire Christian Dvorak

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

11 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

True ... but Habs could have had Morgan Rielly, Hampus Lindholm, Matt Dumba or Jacob Trouba instead of drafting for need and assuming Galchenyuk would/could be a NHL centre.

 It's easy to look back and cherry pick and say that but not one of those players was rated in the top 5 in any mock draft that I looked at. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

Found this old scouting report on a mock draft site and he sure sounded good. I never thought of Galchenyuk as "big". Not sure about the "smarts" either.  Not after setting up Nick and Cole on that 2 on 0. 

 

Strengths – Galchenyuk is a big, play-making center who can skate very well; especially for his size. He has outstanding vision, hockey sense and is a great passer. He’s always very aware of where everyone is and will be on the ice, and he uses that to his advantage. Galchenyuk uses his big body well to create space for himself in the slot and on the boards. He has a very underrated shot, exceptional release and is very accurate. He can not only produce offensively night-in night-out, but he’s also very good defensively and understands that taking care of things in his own end is as important as producing at the other end of the ice. He also has outstanding hands and can often be found stick-handling in phone booths.

Weaknesses – There’s not much Galchenyuk can’t do, but one area he could improve on is his physical game. He has the body frame to be a physical player, but at this point in his career it’s just not his style. He can be an exceptional player without delivering bone crushing hits regularly, but given his size he could certainly be a little meaner.

Career Projection – First line (#1) Center – Galchenyuk is smart, big, talented, and he can skate. He is good in all aspects of the game and there really isn’t much he isn’t capable of doing. Given his size, smarts and skill he projects to be a very good first line center in the NHL for a long, long time. Had he been healthy the entire season, or even half, he would be a legitimate candidate to be drafted with the 1st overall pick.
Submitted by: Todd Cordell of TheHockeyGuys
 

[alfredoh2009]

Just now, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Found this old scouting report on a mock draft site and he sure sounded good. I never thought of Galchenyuk as "big". Not sure about the "smarts" either.  Not after setting up Nick and Cole on that 2 on 0. 

 

Strengths – Galchenyuk is a big, play-making center who can skate very well; especially for his size. He has outstanding vision, hockey sense and is a great passer. He’s always very aware of where everyone is and will be on the ice, and he uses that to his advantage. Galchenyuk uses his big body well to create space for himself in the slot and on the boards. He has a very underrated shot, exceptional release and is very accurate. He can not only produce offensively night-in night-out, but he’s also very good defensively and understands that taking care of things in his own end is as important as producing at the other end of the ice. He also has outstanding hands and can often be found stick-handling in phone booths.

Weaknesses – There’s not much Galchenyuk can’t do, but one area he could improve on is his physical game. He has the body frame to be a physical player, but at this point in his career it’s just not his style. He can be an exceptional player without delivering bone crushing hits regularly, but given his size he could certainly be a little meaner.

Career Projection – First line (#1) Center – Galchenyuk is smart, big, talented, and he can skate. He is good in all aspects of the game and there really isn’t much he isn’t capable of doing. Given his size, smarts and skill he projects to be a very good first line center in the NHL for a long, long time. Had he been healthy the entire season, or even half, he would be a legitimate candidate to be drafted with the 1st overall pick.
Submitted by: Todd Cordell of TheHockeyGuys
 

I wouldn't take "The Hockey Guys" prospect evaluation based on that, they missed the mark

[dlbalr]

5 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I wouldn't take "The Hockey Guys" prospect evaluation based on that, they missed the mark

 

Believe it or not, the guy who wrote that did some analytics and scouting work for a couple of junior teams.  That one wasn't just from a random person.

[alfredoh2009]

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2012/6/22/3111503/2012-nhl-draft-alex-galchenyuk-montreal-canadiens

 

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2012/9/6/3295724/top-25-under-25-3-alex-galchenyuk

 

https://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012/11/13/u-s-world-junior-watch-spotlight-on-alex-galchenyuk-other-top-candidates/

 

Quote

is on-ice skill is hard to match, especially among this American forward pool.

There haven’t been a ton of game-changing players on U.S. national teams. U.S. teams have had players step up, but never in a way that was wholly dominant, not even in the gold-medal years of 2004 and 2010. I don’t know that Galchenyuk, as an 18-year-old can be that dominant force, but he certainly has the potential to be.

 

He should have some good wings to play with, which is great for a player that has Galchenyuk’s distribution skills and he should have room to create. As long as Galchenyuk performs up to his ability, the U.S. has one of the more dynamic talents it’s ever had at this tournament.

It will require a lot more than one player to take down the tough competition U.S. is bound to face in Ufa, but there’s something to be said  about having a player the coach feels comfortable throwing out on the ice in late-game or need-to-score situations. That’s what Alex Galchenyuk can potentially bring to the table.

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by alfredoh2009

[GHT120]

29 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

couldhav', wouldhav', shouldhav'

 

https://theathletic.com/1581819/2020/02/05/analyzing-the-many-mistakes-made-in-the-2012-nhl-draft-including-the-role-conventional-wisdom-played/

 

 

 

Since the article was written:

Ryan Murray was traded to NJY and then signed as an UFA with COL

 

three remain with their teams

 

titanfan pointed out that Galchenyuk is near the top in goals and points for his draft class ... I was simply responding that it isn't as simple as goals & points ... there were other options with fewer goals and points that need to be factored in.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

13 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I wouldn't take "The Hockey Guys" prospect evaluation based on that, they missed the mark

 

 A lot of scouting departments\analysts missed the mark in 2012. Yakupov never made it, Griffin Reinhart was supposed to be a big stud defenceman. Evaluating 18 year olds is far from an exact science. Easy to look back and say they should have done this. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

This is why I don’t favour “tanking.” Tankistes always assume you’re going to get Auston Matthews. But we’ve had two tank-equivalent seasons the last decade and the results were Galy and KK. Drouin was a #3 overall pick as well, so he too is equivalent to a “tank” pick.

 

Most draft years have a mix of studs and semi-duds taken in the top few picks. I don’t think it’s enough to just say “well, the teams that picked the semi-duds should have known better,” because generally teams’ choices align roughly with widely-shared expert opinion. When Drouin was picked, I doubt anyone was saying “boy, TB really screwed the pooch with that choice.” The Galchenyuk choice was universally praised as well. There is little sense in retroactively condemning them for not drafting Fillip Forsberg.

 

Tanking gives you a greater chance to bag a Mackinnon, but it is in no way, shape, or form a guarantee of doing so; and most of the time, you won’t. 

 

 

[GHT120]

22 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

This is why I don’t favour “tanking.” Tankistes always assume you’re going to get Auston Matthews. But we’ve had two tank-equivalent seasons the last decade and the results were Galy and KK. Drouin was a #3 overall pick as well, so he too is equivalent to a “tank” pick.

 

Most draft years have a mix of studs and semi-duds taken in the top few picks. I don’t think it’s enough to just say “well, the teams that picked the semi-duds should have known better,” because generally teams’ choices align roughly with widely-shared expert opinion. When Drouin was picked, I doubt anyone was saying “boy, TB really screwed the pooch with that choice.” The Galchenyuk choice was universally praised as well. There is little sense in retroactively condemning them for not drafting Fillip Forsberg.

 

Tanking gives you a greater chance to bag a Mackinnon, but it is in no way, shape, or form a guarantee of doing so; and most of the time, you won’t. 

Absolutely correct ... but rarely if ever do I recall anyone seriously suggesting to tank because the Habs would get that top-rated prospect ... anyone who makes that suggestion doesn't understand the process ... but in those rare drafts with a truly generational prospect tanking (or just legitimatly having a bad season) gives, as you said, a chance to get them.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

40 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Tanking gives you a greater chance to bag a Mackinnon, but it is in no way, shape, or form a guarantee of doing so; and most of the time, you won’t. 

 

 

Exactly. tanking gives you a better a chance but there are no guarantees when it comes to drafting 18 year olds. But if you are not going to make the playoffs then you might as well improve your chances. 

[TurdBurglar]

The biggest issue the Habs have had with higher picks is they rush them to the NHL.  Galchenyuk came off of knee surgery in the OHL to playing NHL games consistently.  KK went straight to the NHL.  The Habs drafted immediate needs and rushed them to the NHL.  Both of these 3rd overall picks should of played in the AHL for at least a season, maybe more. 

 

Pacioretty played a couple seasons in the AHL, getting seasoned for the NHL.  Look how that turned out.  Before he was traded, he was top-5 in 5-on-5 scoring in the NHL for a string of years.  If I remember he was top-2 for a number of years behind Ovechkin.

 

I do understand drafting a need, but filling an immediate need with a draft pick doesn't work unless it's a great player.  The Habs should of endured the losses, like they did with them in the lineup, with their top picks developing, not rushing them into the NHL.

[Sir_Boagalott]

6 hours ago, Meller93 said:

Dvorak isn’t a Danault-lite either, sure he’s two-way but they have different assets. Danault is probably better defensively but I think Dvorak probably has more offensive upside. His hands are better for sure. I think he’ll probably surprise people with a bit of flash

 

Exactly!

 

I just watched numerous vids of his goals over the last several seasons.  (this vid was in dlbars link)

 

and this 1:

 

Dvorak is likely a downgrade defensively to Danault but he is way better at PP, PK, and he even looks to be good in OT plus be a shootout specialist too.  All of those areas needed serious work and he should improve them all.  He should help them win more of those close 1 goal games. 

 

He seems to have impressive offensive hockey IQ and when he doesn't have the puck.  i.e. he seems have a knack for constantly moving around a lot and with intent and purpose of getting himself open to shoot or set up plays.  i.e. some C's move around a few feet and wait for something to happen.  However, it seems like Dvorak understands the who, what, when, where, and how, plus sometimes why to move around a lot to create or cause something to happen. 

 

He seems to have a decent shot thats accurate, a fast release, good at deflecting, and has a great backhand.  For some reason there is something about him that reminds me of Toffoli.  I'm thinking he might exceed expectations similar to Toffoli.  I think Dvorak should get 50+ pts and possibly over 60 pts. 

 

I believe he'll be a great fit and if he plays with Gally I could see Dvoarak increasing Gally's g's to 35+/yr and 25-30 a/yr for 60-65pts/yr.   i.e. Gally playing with a more offensive minded C could probably get 10 more pts/yr - and for the next 4 years.

[nihilz]

Great mix of snipes, deflections and dirty goals. Love the versatility.

[DON]

13 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

hogwash.

Of course it is Mr. P..

Of 31 other teams, only 1 thought Habs were ripe for the picking and made crazy overpayment to make it happen, which of course had nothing to do with payback and was strictly a smart play to make eh (Canes owner reminds me of whiny Brian Burke when Penner given offer) .

https://fansided.com/2021/08/30/nhl-free-agency-infamous-offer-sheets/

 

Nice to see Dvorak is only 25, dont recall ever noticing him play. But, on paper he seems like a nice fit and cheaper than Kotkaniemi or Danault for next couple years at least.

[DON]

16 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Well I wasn’t happy with his either signing in July,

That is simply shocking to hear.

[DON]

23 hours ago, Longstreet said:

They draft KK ahead of Hughes and Tkachuk in 2018. WTF. Many were scratching their heads when they did that. 

I was gonna disagree, revisited the 2018 draft thread and the 'many' you refer to, must be elsewhere, is that what you meant? 

Habs "needed" a centre and resident prospect guy Commandant, said after Svchinikov at 2, was a toss up for next several picks, seems many liked Zadina and didnt see anyone clamoring for Hughes (other than Commandant said would of been his choice i think?) and some were very very happy Tkachuk wasnt chosen.

[Meller93]

16 minutes ago, DON said:

I was gonna disagree, revisited the 2018 draft thread and the 'many' you refer to, must be elsewhere, is that what you meant? 

Habs "needed" a centre and resident prospect guy Commandant, said after Svchinikov at 2, was a toss up for next several picks, seems many liked Zadina and didnt see anyone clamoring for Hughes (other than Commandant said would of been his choice i think?) and some were very very happy Tkachuk wasnt chosen.

I was one of the people happy Tkachuk wasn’t chosen - yikes in retrospect. His college numbers didn’t scream offensive potential considering he was an older player in his draft.

 

I was definitely pulling for Zadina, but KK was alright with me. I remember the general hockey community calling it a reach, but also that KK would have been the first C off the board. AZ taking Hayton shortly after shows the premium on C in the draft.

[GHT120]

Apparently there is a 1:00 pm press conference

 

 

 

[GHT120]

Watch here

EN DIRECT • LIVE: Marc Bergevin / Twitter

 

 

[PMAC]

21 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Of course it did. The habs were maxed out and exposed capwise. The Canes times their offer sheet perfectly. MB had spent his money; and only had Weber’s LTIR and the allowable overage to spare.  We had plenty of wingers. Didn’t need another one. Centre and Offence from the D was where we had a need. Money should have been saved in case there was an opportunity in season to make an addition, even when you take KK out of the equation.

 

with the team of the deal we made with Arizona, we have to be careful what we wish for from the Canes this year. Mind boggling terms that MB conceded. Looked like a rookie GM through this hole mess and the draft.

You seem oblivious to the point that Montreal had plenty of cap room to sign Kk to the bridge that they wanted and could have matched the Canes ridiculous offer and rightly chose not to do so. What are you talking about” mind-boggling terms” that Bergevin agreed to? The whichever of the two picks Arizona gets is top ten protected. The Coyotes get the best pick unless either of them is in the top ten then they get the lower pick. That is a tidy bit of business. Perhaps you think a first and a second an outrageous price? Then you shouldn’t like the Canes giving up a first without protection and a 3rd plus an extra 1.5million for a player who scored 5 goals last season. You really need to give the Bergevin bashing a rest. 

[GHT120]

Dvorak's turn
 

 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

6 hours ago, Meller93 said:

I was one of the people happy Tkachuk wasn’t chosen - yikes in retrospect. His college numbers didn’t scream offensive potential considering he was an older player in his draft.

 

I was definitely pulling for Zadina, but KK was alright with me. I remember the general hockey community calling it a reach, but also that KK would have been the first C off the board. AZ taking Hayton shortly after shows the premium on C in the draft.

My order was 

 

Zadina 

Tkachuk

 

Then it would have been

 

Hughes 
KK?

 

That’s why I can never talk crap. Because I wanted Zadina. With that being said, I was really high on Tkachuk as well and was surprised how the consensus was to go against him. I loved what he brought the the USA junior team prior to draft.

 

I also say all that being one of the people who are unhappy KK is gone.

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I was nervous about Tkatchuk because I had heard his skating wasn’t all that great and was worried that he would turn out to be a “character” guy more than a high-impact producer. 

 

That said, I am always very circumspect in my comments about draft day. I am not a prospect expert and do not suddenly pretend to be one for one day a year.

[Sir_Boagalott]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I was nervous about Tkatchuk because I had heard his skating wasn’t all that great and was worried that he would turn out to be a “character” guy more than a high-impact producer. 

 

That said, I am always very circumspect in my comments about draft day. I am not a prospect expert and do not suddenly pretend to be one for one day a year.

 

I honestly dont get why anybody was nervous regarding the younger Tkachuk. 

 

If anybody is bored try doing what I did:

 

Google NHL brothers, there are at least 3-4 sites with great lists.  Then go through the lists and open up the older brothers player profile page.  1st look at what draft position the elder brother had, then check the younger brothers.  If their draft positions were within 5 spots of each other, then check to see if the older brother went directly from Junior into the NHL, if yes how was their rookie year?  Then check if the younger brother went directly into NHL and look at their rookie year - and it will be on par with the older brothers. 

 

Under that exact criteria, there are lots of examples where more often than not, the younger brother is actually the better player. 

 

Great ex: Sylvain, drafted high and went directly into NHL had a really good rookie year, it was no fluke that Pierre was drafted high and went directly into NHL too and had a really good rookie year, and the younger brother turned out to to be the better Turgeon.    

Check it out, its wild, and there are lots of other examples of that.  Under that identical scenario drafting the younger brother is 1 of the safest picks you can possibly have.

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

29 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

I honestly dont get why anybody was nervous regarding the younger Tkachuk. 

 

If anybody is bored try doing what I did:

 

Google NHL brothers, there are at least 3-4 sites with great lists.  Then go through the lists and open up the older brothers player profile page.  1st look at what draft position the elder brother had, then check the younger brothers.  If their draft positions were within 5 spots of each other, then check to see if the older brother went directly from Junior into the NHL, if yes how was their rookie year?  Then check if the younger brother went directly into NHL and look at their rookie year - and it will be on par with the older brothers. 

 

Under that exact criteria, there are lots of examples where more often than not, the younger brother is actually the better player. 

 

Great ex: Sylvain, drafted high and went directly into NHL had a really good rookie year, it was no fluke that Pierre was drafted high and went directly into NHL too and had a really good rookie year, and the younger brother turned out to to be the better Turgeon.    

Check it out, its wild, and there are lots of other examples of that.  Under that identical scenario drafting the younger brother is 1 of the safest picks you can possibly have.