Montreal Canadiens 2021-2022 training camp

[dlbalr]

17 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I hope Poehling and Ylonen play the two last games. I want to see them against stronger opposition and playing with more talented linemates.

 

But if the Habs are going to ice a deeper lineup as they should be, Poehling and Ylonen are going to get the leftovers, not top-end linemates.  They don't need to see how Poehling plays with Toffoli or Gallagher.  He's not going to play with guys like that this season.  If he makes the team, it's in a 4C role so they need to see how he does in that role, not with better players for the sake of a possible confidence boost.

[alfredoh2009]

3 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

But if the Habs are going to ice a deeper lineup as they should be, Poehling and Ylonen are going to get the leftovers, not top-end linemates.  They don't need to see how Poehling plays with Toffoli or Gallagher.  He's not going to play with guys like that this season.  If he makes the team, it's in a 4C role so they need to see how he does in that role, not with better players for the sake of a possible confidence boost.

 

I do not believe it will be to their development benefit to play in Montreal this year. They both need to play lots of top minutes.

 

That is why I hope to see them playing a more minutes against stronger NHL opposition, to see how they project, then send them to Laval.

I would play Ylonen a few shifts with Suzuki and Dvorak. I would also play Poehling a whole game with Lehkonen and Armia.

 

[dlbalr]

4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

That is why I hope to see them playing a more minutes against stronger NHL opposition, to see how they project, then send them to Laval.

I would play Ylonen a few shifts with Suzuki and Dvorak. I would also play Poehling a whole game with Lehkonen and Armia.

 

You might be able to get a shot with Ylonen as Caufield's placeholder on the Suzuki line if they dropped Gallagher to play with Evans which appears to be the plan.  Dvorak's line needs time to develop chemistry so they need to stay together, that's more important than giving a prospect a few extra minutes.  As for Poehling, that's doable on the fourth line but that's not really much better linemates than he has had at times in the preseason (he has played with Lehkonen already). 

[alfredoh2009]

10 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

You might be able to get a shot with Ylonen as Caufield's placeholder on the Suzuki line if they dropped Gallagher to play with Evans which appears to be the plan.  Dvorak's line needs time to develop chemistry so they need to stay together, that's more important than giving a prospect a few extra minutes.  As for Poehling, that's doable on the fourth line but that's not really much better linemates than he has had at times in the preseason (he has played with Lehkonen already). 

I would be happy seeing something like this:

Toffoli-Suzuki-Ylonen

Drouin-Dvorak-Anderson

Perrault-Evans-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Poehling-Armia

[DON]

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/latest-news/2021/10/4/22708843/montreal-canadiens-lines-at-practice-caufield-returns-gallagher-finds-a-new-line-habs-poehling

[tomh009]

Armia-Evans-Gallagher -- that is a serious in-your-face third line.

[DON]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

Armia-Evans-Gallagher -- that is a serious in-your-face third line.

For $10.8 million it darn well should be a good 3rd line.

[DON]

 

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/canadiens-notebook-cole-caufield-back-with-nick-suzuki-tyler-toffoli

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-training-camp-notebook-price-doubtful-start-season-time/

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

Poehling hanging on to a healthy scratch role

 

 

The Canadiens have released the following players from training camp:

Must clear waivers before being assigned to Laval:
M. Pezzetta

Assigned to Laval:
G. Bourque
G. Fairbrother
R. Harvey-Pinard

— Canadiens Montréal (@CanadiensMTL) October 6, 2021

 

[alfredoh2009]

not joking anymore, I think Poehling will start the season in Montreal. Not because he has outplayed others, but because:
   * his FO% is really good

   * he has the speed and pace to follow the play

   * he is not a defensive liability

 

But he will be sent to Laval when Paquette is healthy or is the Habs sign an experienced C. Perrault and Paquette are better on the wings and they would make a good 4th line with Poehling, but Lehkonen merits  more than Poehling to be on the lineup and for that reason Poehling's stay in Montreal will be short.

 

On the French broadcaster and RDS, the analysis of Poehling is that he needs to strengthen his legs and to develop his foot work. THey are saying that Poehling's skating is fine, but his puck battles and positioning lacks because of his lack of strength and quickness.

[alfredoh2009]

 

Canadiens lines at practice

Toffoli-Suzuki-Caufield
Drouin-Dvorak-Anderson
Armia-Evans-Gallagher
Perreault-Poehling-Belzile/Ylönen

Romanov-Petry
Chiarot-Savard
Kulak-Wideman-Guhle (rotating)

— Arpon Basu (@ArponBasu) October 6, 2021

 

 

 

Lehkonen is rotating with Armia at left wing with Evans and Gallagher.

— Arpon Basu (@ArponBasu) October 6, 2021

 

[Sir_Boagalott]

On 10/3/2021 at 12:19 PM, dlbalr said:

 

But if the Habs are going to ice a deeper lineup as they should be, Poehling and Ylonen are going to get the leftovers, not top-end linemates.  They don't need to see how Poehling plays with Toffoli or Gallagher.  He's not going to play with guys like that this season.  If he makes the team, it's in a 4C role so they need to see how he does in that role, not with better players for the sake of a possible confidence boost.

 

Hmm, I tend to have a polar opposite opinion on top end linemates.  However, I'm thinking more of the Drouin Dvorak Anderson line.  i.e. those 3 gel really well together, but why?  ex:  is it Dvorak that makes the wingers click, or the wingers that make the C click?  I think it would be good to try to determine what the reason is. 

 

Therefore, I'd temporarily break up that line and swap Dvorak out and put him with Toffoli and Gally - just to see what would happen.  Then, I'd insert Poehling with Drouin and Anderson. 

 

Whatever C plays with Drouin and Anderson will likely get 50-60pts, and Dvorak should be capable of getting around the same amount of points if he's on that line or not. Poehling wont get 50-60 pts playing with leftover wingers though.  If Poehling does well with Drouin and Anderson then I'd try him with Toffoli and Gally - again just to see what would happen. 

 

I find it sort of a pain that Poehling is playing with Ylonen and Belzile.  If I wanted to see that line I'd watch Rocket games.   i.e. Poehling might look like he is an AHLer because he's still playing with 2 of them.  I'd prefer to see him play with NHLers to see if he might be one. 

 

Plus, Engels did mention in 1 of his articles that 1 GM said if Dvorak is your 3rd C you'd be playing for the Cup.  Well, Dvorak is more of a replacement for Dannault than kk, he's more defensive, as are Toffoli & Gally vs Douin & Anderson. 

[dlbalr]

11 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

I find it sort of a pain that Poehling is playing with Ylonen and Belzile.  If I wanted to see that line I'd watch Rocket games.   i.e. Poehling might look like he is an AHLer because he's still playing with 2 of them.  I'd prefer to see him play with NHLers to see if he might be one. 

 

Plus, Engels did mention in 1 of his articles that 1 GM said if Dvorak is your 3rd C you'd be playing for the Cup.  Well, Dvorak is more of a replacement for Dannault than kk, he's more defensive, as are Toffoli & Gally vs Douin & Anderson. 

 

I think Poehling looks like an AHL player because that's what he is at this point of his development.  He's never going to be an offensive player in the NHL, he's a 3C at best and, on merit, shouldn't be on the NHL roster to start the season.  If he wasn't a first-round pick, he'd have been cut a week ago.  I'm not wasting reps in terms of developing chemistry on a player who has shown over two professional years plus throughout his college career that he isn't good enough offensively to play in the top six in the NHL.  He lacks the offensive skill-set to be in that role - I don't need to see him struggle to keep up with top talent to see that; it's pretty evident on its own.  If he's getting outshone offensively by Belzile and Ylonen - and he has - that's not a good thing.

 

Poehling has a shot at replacing Kotkaniemi if the goal is to equal the five goals Kotkaniemi scored last season.  Otherwise, he's not a Kotkaniemi replacement. 

 

I want to see how he fares in a real year in the minors (having a few good weeks last year against incredibly weak competition doesn't mean much of anything).  If he produces there this season, then the 3C upside might be still there.  Otherwise, expectations need to change.  He's going to be more of a Kyle Chipchura in the NHL than a Jesperi Kotkaniemi.  Chipchura was once thought to have offensive upside but those expectations eventually faded.  I expect that's what will happen with Poehling.  There's a spot for him long term in Montreal but it's in a supporting cast role, not an impact one.

[DON]

The achilles cut changed Chipchura if rememeber correctly. But, hope Poehling starts season in AHL and is a stand out.

[alfredoh2009]

3 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Hmm, I tend to have a polar opposite opinion on top end linemates.  However, I'm thinking more of the Drouin Dvorak Anderson line.  i.e. those 3 gel really well together, but why?  ex:  is it Dvorak that makes the wingers click, or the wingers that make the C click?  I think it would be good to try to determine what the reason is. 

 

Therefore, I'd temporarily break up that line and swap Dvorak out and put him with Toffoli and Gally - just to see what would happen.  Then, I'd insert Poehling with Drouin and Anderson. 

 

Whatever C plays with Drouin and Anderson will likely get 50-60pts, and Dvorak should be capable of getting around the same amount of points if he's on that line or not. Poehling wont get 50-60 pts playing with leftover wingers though.  If Poehling does well with Drouin and Anderson then I'd try him with Toffoli and Gally - again just to see what would happen. 

 

I find it sort of a pain that Poehling is playing with Ylonen and Belzile.  If I wanted to see that line I'd watch Rocket games.   i.e. Poehling might look like he is an AHLer because he's still playing with 2 of them.  I'd prefer to see him play with NHLers to see if he might be one. 

 

Plus, Engels did mention in 1 of his articles that 1 GM said if Dvorak is your 3rd C you'd be playing for the Cup.  Well, Dvorak is more of a replacement for Dannault than kk, he's more defensive, as are Toffoli & Gally vs Douin & Anderson. 

Plekanek, Danault and other defensive centres started in the bottom 6 and earned their way up. 

why waste the time with a player drafted to be a 3C AT MOST and labeled as a 4C for

most of his professional career 

 

I see him as an Eller, delaRose or Patrick Nolan

[GHT120]

10 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Plekanek, Danault and other defensive centres started in the bottom 6 and earned their way up. 

why waste the time with a player drafted to be a 3C AT MOST and labeled as a 4C for

most of his professional career 

 

I see him as an Eller, delaRose or Patrick Nolan

 

Huge gap between Eller and de la Rose ... definitely offensively and likely defensively ... Eller is a proven 3C while de la Rose's best TOI season (as a rookie) is slightly less than Eller's lowest (other than Lars' rookie season) ... Nolan Patrick is Eller-ish offensively, but with potential upside to yet be better than Lars ... I would be very happy if Poehling became either an "Eller" or a "Patrick". 

[alfredoh2009]

45 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Huge gap between Eller and de la Rose ... definitely offensively and likely defensively ... Eller is a proven 3C while de la Rose's best TOI season (as a rookie) is slightly less than Eller's lowest (other than Lars' rookie season) ... Nolan Patrick is Eller-ish offensively, but with potential upside to yet be better than Lars ... I would be very happy if Poehling became either an "Eller" or a "Patrick". 

It is not that huge of a gap, just the range we should expect from Poehling:

   * nothing more than a good 3C

   * nothing less than a passable 4C

 

I do not think he is a bust, but I am trying to keep my expectations within my range.

 

dor example, Eller is a big and strong player that plays small and is not physical. Like Lattendresse and Armia

 

DelaRose could not score, like Lehkonen and Pyatt

[alfredoh2009]

73 - Tyler Toffoli14 - Nick Suzuki22 - Cole Caufield

 

92 - Jonathan Drouin28 - Christian Dvorak17 - Josh Anderson

 

40 -  Joel Armia71 - Jake Evans11 - Brendan Gallagher

 

62 - Artturi Lehkonen25 - Ryan Poehling56 - Jesse Ylonen

 

60 - Alex Belzile85 - Mathieu Perreault 

 

77 - Brett Kulak26 - Jeff Petry

 

8 - Ben Chiarot58 - David Savard

27 - Alexander Romanov20 - Chris Wideman

 

21 - Kaiden Guhle 15 - Sami Niku

 

https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/lines-defense-pairings-and-updates---october-9/c-326705878?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=CHCcontent&utm_content=EN-1008-Lines

[dlbalr]

That's interesting considering the beat writers who were at practice had Lehkonen-Perreault-Belzile as L4 and Poehling/Ylonen as the extras which makes a lot more sense than the other way around.

[dlbalr]

Ylonen has been cut.  It'll be interesting to see what else - if anything - they do by Monday.  For LTIR purposes, what they have as their roster on Monday may not be what they have come Wednesday in Toronto.

[alfredoh2009]

Thanks for reminding us of the LTIR decision that are coming.

The #Habs are a little close to setting their opening roster after Jesse Ylonen was sent to Laval after practice today: https://t.co/JsdZrvSX42

— HabsWorld.net (@habsworld_net) October 9, 2021

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

That's interesting considering the beat writers who were at practice had Lehkonen-Perreault-Belzile as L4 and Poehling/Ylonen as the extras which makes a lot more sense than the other way around.

 

based on your article, do they get more LITR cap space if they activate Paquette, paper-reassign Poehling to Laval and recall him after teh season startes (before wednesday)

 

or does it givet them more cap space if they keep Poehling and just leave Paquette in IR?

 

Same goes for Belzile and Hoffman... except for waivers

Edited October 9, 2021 by alfredoh2009

[dlbalr]

To clarify, Paquette isn't on IR.  He's on the active roster.  If they put him on regular IR, he has to miss a week.  I don't think that's going to happen based on him being set to practice Monday so he's on the opening roster.  Hoffman will miss that long so I imagine he'll be put on IR which doesn't free up cap space but another roster spot.

 

I think the plan here is put Price on offseason LTIR, get as close to the $81.5M Upper Limit as possible, then put Weber and Byron on regular LTIR.  The quick answer to your question of who will be on Monday's roster is whatever combination of players gets them the closest to the cap ceiling.  I'm too lazy to figure out what combination that's going to be but I wouldn't be surprised if Guhle is on that roster.

 

For anyone that's an Athletic subscriber and wants to see some of the nitty-gritty details, Arpon Basu took a good look at this yesterday: https://theathletic.com/2877952/2021/10/08/how-the-canadiens-complicated-cap-situation-will-determine-some-of-the-final-roster-moves/

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

To clarify, Paquette isn't on IR.  He's on the active roster.  If they put him on regular IR, he has to miss a week.  I don't think that's going to happen based on him being set to practice Monday so he's on the opening roster.  Hoffman will miss that long so I imagine he'll be put on IR which doesn't free up cap space but another roster spot.

 

I think the plan here is put Price on offseason LTIR, get as close to the $81.5M Upper Limit as possible, then put Weber and Byron on regular LTIR.  The quick answer to your question of who will be on Monday's roster is whatever combination of players gets them the closest to the cap ceiling.  I'm too lazy to figure out what combination that's going to be but I wouldn't be surprised if Guhle is on that roster.

 

For anyone that's an Athletic subscriber and wants to see some of the nitty-gritty details, Arpon Basu took a good look at this yesterday: https://theathletic.com/2877952/2021/10/08/how-the-canadiens-complicated-cap-situation-will-determine-some-of-the-final-roster-moves/

 

thanks!

[alfredoh2009]

From the article:

1. 1. 2021-2022 roster deadline 5 p.m. ET on Monday October 12
2. 2. Habs could do as plannned and place all three long term injured players on LITR right-now but won't be best use of cap room
3. article suggest on scenario where Habs could free cap room to sign someone to the league $1.125M limit of what teams are allowed to bury in the minors
4. if I understand correctly, better scenario may be, for example, to put Price and Byron on LITR now, claim  someone like Tomas Hickey from waivers and keep Guhle on the roster
5. then on Tuesday, add Weer to LITR to create extra salary cap space.

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by alfredoh2009
added scenario from articla and differentiated with my proposal