Bergevin's contract will only be dealt with after the season

[dlbalr]

14 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Maybe "quasi" would have been a better word than "semi" ... TSN690 does have a major advantage in being more independent from the Habs than many stations can be from their local NHL team (TSN1200 has always been very much a "homer" station) in that I don't know that there is another English language station in montreal that could be a viable home for Habs games ... CJAD would be alternative but it is also a BellMedia station, so it isn't bidding.

 

CJAD used to have the games.  They'll get them again once the next wave of radio cuts hits and TSN690 gets shuttered.  I think what saved them for now is that they have the rights but once those run out, they can shift them to CJAD and rebrand the station to one of their cheaper formats.

 

33 minutes ago, huzer said:

Roy. Roy will be the next GM.

 

Anyone else get a chill down their spine after reading that?  I have no interest in seeing Roy in that role, one he's not remotely qualified for, nor does he have the right temperament for the job.  When he doesn't get his way in a trade, what's he going to do, quit again like he did in Colorado when Sakic wouldn't acquire who Roy wanted?  (I'd say that worked out pretty well for the Avs...)

[huzer]

1 minute ago, dlbalr said:

Anyone else get a chill down their spine after reading that?  I have no interest in seeing Roy in that role, one he's not remotely qualified for, nor does he have the right temperament for the job.  When he doesn't get his way in a trade, what's he going to do, quit again like he did in Colorado when Sakic wouldn't acquire who Roy wanted?  (I'd say that worked out pretty well for the Avs...)

 

It's absolutely not what I would want, but it's what I fully expect. They've laid the groundwork with his reconciliation with the team.

[hab29RETIRED]

4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I won’t cry if he leaves, but he deserves credit for a spectacular job during the 2020 offseason. His handiwork brought us directly to the Finals in 21. Other than that it’s been spotty to be sure. Formally, the jury is still out on this year, but obviously the early returns are not promising.

 

The problem is, it’s easy to say “fire Bergevin,” because at this point he is competing with an abstraction, i.e., an impeccable hypothetical GM. It all depends on who his successor is.

I’m just glad Pierre Mcquire is off the reservation. - I mean no longer available.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, huzer said:

 

It's absolutely not what I would want, but it's what I fully expect. They've laid the groundwork with his reconciliation with the team.

Yeah and Mario will be his assistant🙄

Last thing we need is a Roy soap opera as the habs world turns.

[DON]

40 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I’m just glad Pierre Mcquire is off the reservation. - I mean no longer available.

Oh, he would likely jump at chance to be GM of Habs. Not just a... whatever he is in Ottawa

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

56 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Yeah and Mario will be his assistant🙄

Last thing we need is a Roy soap opera as the habs world turns.

 

Roy will be a catastrophic disaster: a hyper-arrogant version of Rejean Houle.

 

As for Timmins, how's his French?

[hab29RETIRED]

8 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

 

8 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Roy will be a catastrophic disaster: a hyper-arrogant version of Rejean Houle.

 

As for Timmins, how's his French?

Well as far as I know there is no need for him to really translate bicep curl in French, so he should at least be able to answer questions from French reporters about his favourite exercise.

[alfredoh2009]

21 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Roy will be a catastrophic disaster: a hyper-arrogant version of Rejean Houle.

 

As for Timmins, how's his French?

Timmins is an Ottawan, I am sure he understands it.

 

If I remember correctly, he has taken questions in french on some interviews. His spoken french is  less fluent than Gainey's.

 

[brobin]

19 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Is your criterion for "success" the same as "won the cup"? Because the Habs did get within three games of that, even if they did fall short in the end.

 

But by this criterion most NHL GMs are unsuccessful.

 

6 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I won’t cry if he leaves, but he deserves credit for a spectacular job during the 2020 offseason. His handiwork brought us directly to the Finals in 21. Other than that it’s been spotty to be sure. Formally, the jury is still out on this year, but obviously the early returns are not promising.

 

The problem is, it’s easy to say “fire Bergevin,” because at this point he is competing with an abstraction, i.e., an impeccable hypothetical GM. It all depends on who his successor is.

His overall body of work isn’t great. Last year the habs were lucky to be in an all Canadian Covid division and they still barely made it to the playoffs. Yes, they had a deep and surprising run but frankly I think that had more to do with some luck and a few key players “going for it hard” as maybe their last chance. We don’t even look like a playoff team.

 

I don’t think you have to win the cup to be successful but building a strong team that is competing for it year over year and a deep farm is a better way to judge a GM. In that respect, he hasn’t impressed. The rumour is an offer was made and he rejected it. I think he expects a big pay raise and thinks last year showed him to be a top GM. He isn’t and molson shouldn’t give in.  

[Sir_Boagalott]

9 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The problem is, it’s easy to say “fire Bergevin,” because at this point he is competing with an abstraction, i.e., an impeccable hypothetical GM. It all depends on who his successor is.

 

I fully agree and that actually sorta drives me crazy when so many people simply say "fire MB".  I haven't really seen many if any suggestions at all as to who would replace him, or if a new GM would actually be any better.  It only makes sense to fire him if he can be replaced with a bona fide upgrade.  Who would that be?  

[GHT120]

4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I’m just glad Pierre Mcquire is off the reservation. - I mean no longer available.

 

3 hours ago, DON said:

Oh, he would likely jump at chance to be GM of Habs. Not just a... whatever he is in Ottawa

 

Would the Sens stand in McGuire's way if he go a GM offer?   He may even have an "out" clause for a GM job.   NOT advocating for him, just pointing out he may not necessarily be off the table.

[Sir_Boagalott]

8 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

 

Would the Sens stand in McGuire's way if he go a GM offer?   He may even have an "out" clause for a GM job.   NOT advocating for him, just pointing out he may not necessarily be off the table.

 

Thats a good point. 

 

I honestly find it to be super surprising that McGuire took that job with the Sens.  i.e. what does a senior vice-president of player development get paid vs a big US hockey analyst?  That sorta seems like it would be a demotion.  Maybe McGuire only accepted that position because he feels like it is an in for him to eventually become their next GM.  

[sbhatt]

He should be gone.  Timmins and the rest of the scouting staff should be walked out with him.

[GHT120]

11 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Thats a good point. 

 

I honestly find it to be super surprising that McGuire took that job with the Sens.  i.e. what does a senior vice-president of player development get paid vs a big US hockey analyst?  That sorta seems like it would be a demotion.  Maybe McGuire only accepted that position because he feels like it is an in for him to eventually become their next GM.  

His bosses (NBC) lost the NHL contract and the newbies (ESPN/TURNER) apparently didn't offer him a job ... I totally agree he took the job as a step towards a GM position ... be it Ottawa or elsewhere.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

I fully agree and that actually sorta drives me crazy when so many people simply say "fire MB".  I haven't really seen many if any suggestions at all as to who would replace him, or if a new GM would actually be any better.  It only makes sense to fire him if he can be replaced with a bona fide upgrade.  Who would that be?  

 

It's hard to know who his replacement might be, though. Sure, there are obvious high-profile names like Timmins, McGuire, and Roy. But how many of us would have identified Marc Bergevin as a future GM prior to his being interviewed for the job? More realistic than blowhards like McGuire or Roy would be a bilingual person working at the executive level on another team. Such people are usually behind the scenes and only deep hockey nerds know who they are. 

[Sir_Boagalott]

9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It's hard to know who his replacement might be, though. Sure, there are obvious high-profile names like Timmins, McGuire, and Roy. But how many of us would have identified Marc Bergevin as a future GM prior to his being interviewed for the job? More realistic than blowhards like McGuire or Roy would be a bilingual person working at the executive level on another team. Such people are usually behind the scenes and only deep hockey nerds know who they are. 

 

I agree that MB seemed to come out of nowhere when he was chosen - there was no way for me to predict that.  However, in hindsight it really wasn't that surprising.  MB was with the Hawks as director of player personnel and was their assistant GM when the Habs hired him.  

 

Also, seeing how the Habs have a prerequisite for GMs and Coaches to speak French I imagine that it would probably be easier for Quebecers to have a better chance of knowing who might be able to replace him.  ex:  Dom, I wasnt sure who he was or where he came from, but I don't speak French so its hard for me to follow the Q.  

 

Plus, there are a lot of people with French last names that aren't from Quebec or speak French.  ex:  Marleau (who was once named to be on Team Quebec).  However, people that watch hockey that are from Quebec would likely have a much better idea as to who actually speaks French and be able to suggest ex players that are in management with NHL teams.  

[Sir_Boagalott]

40 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

His bosses (NBC) lost the NHL contract and the newbies (ESPN/TURNER) apparently didn't offer him a job ... I totally agree he took the job as a step towards a GM position ... be it Ottawa or elsewhere.

 

Oh, that makes sense.  I generally don't watch US networks so I was unaware that NBC lost the TV rights.  

[tomh009]

5 hours ago, brobin said:

His overall body of work isn’t great. Last year the habs were lucky to be in an all Canadian Covid division and they still barely made it to the playoffs. Yes, they had a deep and surprising run but frankly I think that had more to do with some luck and a few key players “going for it hard” as maybe their last chance. We don’t even look like a playoff team.

 

I don’t think you have to win the cup to be successful but building a strong team that is competing for it year over year and a deep farm is a better way to judge a GM. In that respect, he hasn’t impressed. The rumour is an offer was made and he rejected it. I think he expects a big pay raise and thinks last year showed him to be a top GM. He isn’t and molson shouldn’t give in.  

There is usually some luck involved in a cup win. If not all-out good luck, at least the absence of bad luck. So many things can derail a cup run.

 

How many GMs have built a perennial cup contender team (with a deep farm system) in the last 20 years? I think I will have some fingers to spare.

 

Now figure out how many of those have even marginal French skills. And how many of those are available and willing to come to Montreal.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

There is usually some luck involved in a cup win. If not all-out good luck, at least the absence of bad luck. So many things can derail a cup run.

 

How many GMs have built a perennial cup contender team (with a deep farm system) in the last 20 years? I think I will have some fingers to spare.

 

Now figure out how many of those have even marginal French skills. And how many of those are available and willing to come to Montreal.

GM’s with more losing seasons than winning ones, generally don’t get 10 years on the job.

[Habsfan89]

46 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

GM’s with more losing seasons than winning ones, generally don’t get 10 years on the job.

The ones that speak French do lol

[brobin]

11 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

The ones that speak French do lol

 And there is the problem… like coaches we often limit the talent pool. 
 

Bergevin has n9t made this a better team then what he inherited. In fact, it is a mess. Long standing positional issues with no solutions. Ten years of poor talent development… this team needs a shakeup or we will be a middling to bottom feeding team for another decade., toronto, tampa, and Boston have done a cut better job and that is just our division!!!!!

 

if we want to hope for miracle runs every year we will get one once every 10 to 20 years… That is a loser attitude, imo. 
 

are we building through the draft? Then why is our development so poor and we keep trading away young talent, losing them to offers, etc. are we a trading and free agent team? Then why do we suck at acquiring players this way? Pick a plan and get good at it. Instead, we are mediocre at best in all aspects…

[dlbalr]

17 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Would the Sens stand in McGuire's way if he go a GM offer?   He may even have an "out" clause for a GM job.   NOT advocating for him, just pointing out he may not necessarily be off the table.

 

Part of me thinks he took the job in Ottawa to get some front office background for the next time Montreal's GM position comes open.  Working with the Sens will only help his cause and they wouldn't stand in his way if Montreal or another team offered him the GM job.

[Habsfan89]

1 hour ago, brobin said:

 And there is the problem… like coaches we often limit the talent pool. 
 

Bergevin has n9t made this a better team then what he inherited. In fact, it is a mess. Long standing positional issues with no solutions. Ten years of poor talent development… this team needs a shakeup or we will be a middling to bottom feeding team for another decade., toronto, tampa, and Boston have done a cut better job and that is just our division!!!!!

 

if we want to hope for miracle runs every year we will get one once every 10 to 20 years… That is a loser attitude, imo. 
 

are we building through the draft? Then why is our development so poor and we keep trading away young talent, losing them to offers, etc. are we a trading and free agent team? Then why do we suck at acquiring players this way? Pick a plan and get good at it. Instead, we are mediocre at best in all aspects…

I think he has made it a better team 

Anderson 

Caufield 

Toffoli 

Hoffman 

Dvorak 

Suzuki 

 

Much better talent then just 

Pacioretty 

Gallagher 

Subban 

That he got when taking over.

 

The problem is they never look to add more depth and look at older vets replacements. 

 

When they let Markov go, we have yet to find his replacement.

 

Now with Weber most likely gone and Price in a few years we haven't look to draft their replacements. 

 

This is what the team will be like once Price retire's, so get use to it. 

 

Their is too much two way players and not enough Playmakers especially on the D side of things. 

[huzer]

19 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I think he has made it a better team 

Anderson 

Caufield 

Toffoli 

Hoffman 

Dvorak 

Suzuki 

 

Much better talent then just 

Pacioretty 

Gallagher 

Subban 

That he got when taking over

 

 

What's kind of sad is that the list of "better" has a total of one player Bergevin drafted. And he's a rookie this year. The second list is all players that were drafted by the team that are/were successful players. I would have hoped that in ten years time, the list of impact players would have included a couple of draftees.

[brobin]

4 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

I think he has made it a better team 

Anderson 

Caufield 

Toffoli 

Hoffman 

Dvorak 

Suzuki 

 

Much better talent then just 

Pacioretty 

Gallagher 

Subban 

That he got when taking over.

 

The problem is they never look to add more depth and look at older vets replacements. 

 

When they let Markov go, we have yet to find his replacement.

 

Now with Weber most likely gone and Price in a few years we haven't look to draft their replacements. 

 

This is what the team will be like once Price retire's, so get use to it. 

 

Their is too much two way players and not enough Playmakers especially on the D side of things. 

That’s it for ten years? Results? Same…