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Bergevin's contract will only be dealt with after the season


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Thank you MB for 9 years. It was entertaining at times, sad at others and infuriating of late; but never boring

 

 

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About friggin time!!! I hope there is no hurry to hire a GM. Let Gorton do th job for now and hire a head scout - more important right now to beef up scouting, than hiring the figure head French speaking GM.

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Wonder how long until he lands somewhere else ... lots of TALK in recent weeks about LA, Anaheim and Chicago ... wish him sort of well wherever he lands (just lose every game against the Habs - 😉)

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15 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

About friggin time!!! I hope there is no hurry to hire a GM. Let Gorton do th job for now and hire a head scout - more important right now to beef up scouting, than hiring the figure head French speaking GM.

 

Their announcement says they want to hire a bilingual replacement ASAP and didn't even bother naming Gorton interim GM.  They're very much going to be doing this in a rush to the point where they may not be able to interview some of the potential candidates.

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6 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Their announcement says they want to hire a bilingual replacement ASAP and didn't even bother naming Gorton interim GM.  They're very much going to be doing this in a rush to the point where they may not be able to interview some of the potential candidates.

Typical ball-less Molson move.  Let’s not ensure we get the best candidate, let’s just appease the language police media and politicians.

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17 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Typical ball-less Molson move.  Let’s not ensure we get the best candidate, let’s just appease the language police media and politicians.

 

Ah! @hab29RETIRED are you dancing in the streets with the news? Or are you waiting to see if Molson does another stupid move that nullifies the effect of firing MB's management?

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I wonder how many other times it has happened that an organization that gets to the Finals destroys its front office 25 games into the next season - ? That is going to look very strange to future generations.

 

I would have kept Bergevin with instructions to trade veterans for picks and prospects to start the rebuild, then fired him. But I am totally OK with doing it now as well. Indeed, once Molson decided to renege on Mellanby, this was probably inevitable.

 

The Gorton move was very smart. It provides us with an experienced hand overseeing the awkward transition. Less smart is the apparent rush to find a new GM. That’s what happened with Houle, one of the worst precedents in Habs history.

 

It may be that Molson already has a shortlist in mind that he is comfortable with, and saw no reason to wait.

 

There is also that very interesting list of 15 bilingual candidates posted in the other thread. I continue to hope the Habs make a cool and innovative choice, but the rushed nature of this works against it.

 

Bergevin oversaw a tumultuous era and will always have my gratitude for building a team that went to the Finals. On the whole, however, his work has been very uneven and his drafting and development unacceptable. The Run of 21 was the last gasp of an aging core, and it is clear we do not have much top-tier talent in the wings. Time for him to go.

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35 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I wonder how many other times it has happened that an organization that gets to the Finals destroys its front office 25 games into the next season - ? That is going to look very strange to future generations.

 

I would have kept Bergevin with instructions to trade veterans for picks and prospects to start the rebuild, then fired him. But I am totally OK with doing it now as well. Indeed, once Molson decided to renege on Mellanby, this was probably inevitable.

 

The Gorton move was very smart. It provides us with an experienced hand overseeing the awkward transition. Less smart is the apparent rush to find a new GM. That’s what happened with Houle, one of the worst precedents in Habs history.

 

It may be that Molson already has a shortlist in mind that he is comfortable with, and saw no reason to wait.

 

There is also that very interesting list of 15 bilingual candidates posted in the other thread. I continue to hope the Habs make a cool and innovative choice, but the rushed nature of this works against it.

 

Bergevin oversaw a tumultuous era and will always have my gratitude for building a team that went to the Finals. On the whole, however, his work has been very uneven and his drafting and development unacceptable. The Run of 21 was the last gasp of an aging core, and it is clear we do not have much top-tier talent in the wings. Time for him to go.

Maybe that's what Molson wants to do and Bergevin wanted no part of a rebuild. 

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Really, the issue has been more the development (poor) rather than the actual drafting (roughly league average, given the drafting positions).

 

I do realize that I won't convince you of that, though.

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6 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Really, the issue has been more the development (poor) rather than the actual drafting (roughly league average, given the drafting positions).

 

I do realize that I won't convince you of that, though.

 

You may be right, but is “roughly league average” good enough - ? Shouldn’t we be demanding excellence?

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11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

You may be right, but is “roughly league average” good enough - ? Shouldn’t we be demanding excellence?

 

The only way to find out is on how much leash the new management has.

 

We will know by next October if we have inherited excellence or just more of the same

Edited by alfredoh2009
fixed typo (know for not)
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16 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

You may be right, but is “roughly league average” good enough - ? Shouldn’t we be demanding excellence?

We certainly should strive for that, but of course 31 other teams are also striving for excellence in drafting, so dramatic improvements may not be easy.

 

Player development is something that the Habs should be able to make a significant improvement upon, though, regardless of anything the other teams do,

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1 minute ago, tomh009 said:

We certainly should strive for that, but of course 31 other teams are also striving for excellence in drafting, so dramatic improvements may not be easy.

 

Player development is something that the Habs should be able to make a significant improvement upon, though, regardless of anything the other teams do,

 

can't get blood from a stone, and can't develop a Vejdemo into a top line centre.

 

Expectations must be high on the new management since he is supposed to be better. As a fan, I do not want a new voice to tell why it is hard to develop an elite 1C : I want them to deliver on that expectation.

 

I do not want Gorton to tell me the cup is just around the corner. I want his team to deliver, if not then why should I waste my time on this team....

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2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

Their announcement says they want to hire a bilingual replacement ASAP and didn't even bother naming Gorton interim GM.  They're very much going to be doing this in a rush to the point where they may not be able to interview some of the potential candidates.

I expect that this is already in progress. And with Gorton now in place, they can choose a less experienced candidate, to be mentored by Gorton, giving them more options.

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10 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Expectations must be high on the new management since he is supposed to be better. As a fan, I do not want a new voice to tell why it is hard to develop an elite 1C : I want them to deliver on that expectation

Yes, but ... picking on this particular point, how many elite 1C players are there in the league? 15? 20? With an average career length (for an elite player) of over 10 years, that's an average of one such player per draft year.

 

You can draft the top C prospect (uhh, Kotkaniemi) and hope that they develop into an elite player; as we painfully saw, it doesn't always work out. Sometimes there are many C options -- 2017, in particular. Hischier was first overall, and a solid pick, but Patrick (second) hasn't worked out nearly as well. Petterson (fifth) clearly is elite. And Suzuki (13th) might yet become one. But if you really want to draft an elite C, then you are drafting for position instead of best player available. And it doesn't always pan out.

 

I'm hoping Gorton does better than Bergevin did, but I have seen enough new management teams taking over teams (and other kinds of companies) over the years that I am not expecting any miracles.

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

Ah! @hab29RETIRED are you dancing in the streets with the news? Or are you waiting to see if Molson does another stupid move that nullifies the effect of firing MB's management?

I think it was a long time coming! I really like the Gorton hiring. I’m just worried they will rush the GM selection. This year, they HAVE to get the draft right. We can’t afford to Fxck up another high draft pick. It’s much more important to have a strong scouting department in place, than a French GM.

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Well, that’s a decade in the record books.

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I can see why Engels is one of the few members of the media selected a while back to interview Bergevin.

His column shows he’s got his head so far up Moslon’s ass that if Engels lips were moving, you’d still here Molson talking. What a crock full of shit column.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-molson-emerges-as-leader-fans-have-been-craving/

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37 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I can see why Engels is one of the few members of the media selected a while back interview Bergevin.

His column shows he’s got his head so far up Moslon’s ass that if Engels lips were moving, you’d still here Molson talking. What a crock full of shit column.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-molson-emerges-as-leader-fans-have-been-craving/

 

I agree the headline is a bit out there but I thought Molson handled himself well in the press conference. 

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Of course Molson handled à presser well. He is formally trained in public speaking, controlled the narrative, and has a pile of experience with press/boards.

He didn’t do anything while this tire fire was lit and burned for season after season, is apparently rushing to hire a mandated bilingual GM, and handled this transition poorly given the leaks, questionable timing in the hiring/firing, leaving a lame duck GM in place for too long, refusing to address the well known/stated issues with player development for years.

Yeah, he was presidential in that he glossed over all the responsibility he should own, stuck to his desired narrative and threw his subordinates under the bus.   That is presidential, about as presidential as the orange man was.   
 

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I come to praise Molson, not to bury him.

 

Having stupidly left the President position open for a decade, he has cleverly leveraged that vacancy to cut the Gordian knot created by the language “requirement.” This was a strategy many on this board had called for, but the way it’s arranged allows the “GM” the necessary fig leaf of dignity. Similarly, he leveraged the “specialness” of the Montreal market to argue that managing the Habs is too much for any one man - another well-calculated claim designed to appeal to the vanity of the francophone media and a fan base conditioned to this of the Habs as “special.”

 

And, he went out and got a guy in Gorton who ticks all the boxes. Experienced at different levels. Understands a rebuild. Universally respected. Good call.

 

You know what this means, right? Molson has engineered a workaround that allows the Habs to be run by a unilingual Anglo. That is a very valuable precedent. He has shown the way.

 

In his stated intention to prioritize diversity and mental health - and in citing insufficient support for player thriving in Montreal as one of his criticisms of the old regime - he is also showing good sense. That both Price and Drouin had to take leaves of absence is a flashing yellow light, suggesting that our players are not being adequately supported.  If we’re going to ask players to assume the pressures and responsibilities of being Habs, we have to offer them state-of-the-art mental wellness supports. 

 

I applaud all of this.

 

My one concern is how sustainable the two-heading managerial monster will turn out to be. For a while, everything will be fine. But if we hire a Luongo - French-speaking and charismatic - and he starts to feel his oats eventually, we risk setting up a power struggle between the two as they vie for Molson’s ear, with the francophone guy using his loyalists in the French press to control the message. If Molson is smart, he will create ground rules, e.g., no major hockey matters get discussed without both President and GM in the room. If he creates a system where the two are using separate channels of communication to speak with him, he will compound the “power struggle” dynamic. Making this work in the longer term will require some adroit executive management by Molson.

 

 

 

 

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I suspect that the GM will report to the EVP Hockey Ops. It's the way it should work based on the titles, too. This would simplify the decision-making, but it might still be a delicate dance for both Molson and Gorton.

 

But if it works, it'll be the best thing Molson has done for the Habs' management organization.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I come to praise Molson, not to bury him.

 

Having stupidly left the President position open for a decade, he has cleverly leveraged that vacancy to cut the Gordian knot created by the language “requirement.” This was a strategy many on this board had called for, but the way it’s arranged allows the “GM” the necessary fig leaf of dignity. Similarly, he leveraged the “specialness” of the Montreal market to argue that managing the Habs is too much for any one man - another well-calculated claim designed to appeal to the vanity of the francophone media and a fan base conditioned to this of the Habs as “special.”

 

And, he went out and got a guy in Gorton who ticks all the boxes. Experienced at different levels. Understands a rebuild. Universally respected. Good call.

 

You know what this means, right? Molson has engineered a workaround that allows the Habs to be run by a unilingual Anglo. That is a very valuable precedent. He has shown the way.

 

In his stated intention to prioritize diversity and mental health - and in citing insufficient support for player thriving in Montreal as one of his criticisms of the old regime - he is also showing good sense. That both Price and Drouin had to take leaves of absence is a flashing yellow light, suggesting that our players are not being adequately supported.  If we’re going to ask players to assume the pressures and responsibilities of being Habs, we have to offer them state-of-the-art mental wellness supports. 

 

I applaud all of this.

 

My one concern is how sustainable the two-heading managerial monster will turn out to be. For a while, everything will be fine. But if we hire a Luongo - French-speaking and charismatic - and he starts to feel his oats eventually, we risk setting up a power struggle between the two as they vie for Molson’s ear, with the francophone guy using his loyalists in the French press to control the message. If Molson is smart, he will create ground rules, e.g., no major hockey matters get discussed without both President and GM in the room. If he creates a system where the two are using separate channels of communication to speak with him, he will compound the “power struggle” dynamic. Making this work in the longer term will require some adroit executive management by Molson.

 

 

 

 

 

Good post.  I think Molson made the correct decision in hiring Gorton who will hire someone who he thinks he can work with. My guess is Darche as he comes across as a team guy who can work with people but that is just a guess on my part. 

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I come to praise Molson, not to bury him.

 

Having stupidly left the President position open for a decade, he has cleverly leveraged that vacancy to cut the Gordian knot created by the language “requirement.” This was a strategy many on this board had called for, but the way it’s arranged allows the “GM” the necessary fig leaf of dignity. Similarly, he leveraged the “specialness” of the Montreal market to argue that managing the Habs is too much for any one man - another well-calculated claim designed to appeal to the vanity of the francophone media and a fan base conditioned to this of the Habs as “special.”

 

And, he went out and got a guy in Gorton who ticks all the boxes. Experienced at different levels. Understands a rebuild. Universally respected. Good call.

 

You know what this means, right? Molson has engineered a workaround that allows the Habs to be run by a unilingual Anglo. That is a very valuable precedent. He has shown the way.

 

In his stated intention to prioritize diversity and mental health - and in citing insufficient support for player thriving in Montreal as one of his criticisms of the old regime - he is also showing good sense. That both Price and Drouin had to take leaves of absence is a flashing yellow light, suggesting that our players are not being adequately supported.  If we’re going to ask players to assume the pressures and responsibilities of being Habs, we have to offer them state-of-the-art mental wellness supports. 

 

I applaud all of this.

 

My one concern is how sustainable the two-heading managerial monster will turn out to be. For a while, everything will be fine. But if we hire a Luongo - French-speaking and charismatic - and he starts to feel his oats eventually, we risk setting up a power struggle between the two as they vie for Molson’s ear, with the francophone guy using his loyalists in the French press to control the message. If Molson is smart, he will create ground rules, e.g., no major hockey matters get discussed without both President and GM in the room. If he creates a system where the two are using separate channels of communication to speak with him, he will compound the “power struggle” dynamic. Making this work in the longer term will require some adroit executive management by Molson.

 

 

 

 

Well, Benning stabbing Linden, Lafontaine getting screwed over in Buffalo are examples of issues when you have unclear lines of authority- and that’s without the complication of the French media taking obvious sides between a Anglo VP and a French GM. Molson has a history of crumbling when the language pressure points are pushed by the media.

 

im happy with the Gorton hiring as well, but have some apprehension of a) the choice for GM, b) how Molson deals with potential rifts between the Anglo and Francophone.

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