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2021-22 NHL Discussion Thread


tomh009
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Interesting to contrast the Canucks’ changes with those of the Habs.

 

Jim Rutherford - President

Patrick Alvin - GM

Bruce Boudreau - coach

 

vs

 

Jeff Norton - President

Kent Hughes - GM

??? - coach

 

The Canucks also have a couple of assistant GMs, including Emilie Castonguay. Is it just me, or do the Habs not have assistant GMs? Their hockey ops website doesn’t show any.

 

I must say, I prefer the Canucks’ configuration in the round. Rutherford has performed the very rare feat of winning Cups in two different cities as GM. His cv beats Norton’s. Alvin has assistant GM experience. I don’t know if he’s a “better” choice than Hughes but he will have less of a learning curve. And Castonguay adds the “diversity” ingredient I was hoping the Habs would embrace in a hockey role. As for the coaches, Boudreau is an obvious upgrade on DD.

 

Of course, you can argue that the two organizations are at different points in their life cycle. The Habs are entering a rebuild, the Canucks are, by contrast, in an odd place where they have some elite young talent but seem a long way from contending. Vancouver has a management group designed to fix an aborted rebuild, while we have one designed to start a rebuild up from scratch. That’s one way to look at it. Still - I might trade our group for Van’s, straight up.

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... The Canucks also have a couple of assistant GMs, including Emile Castonguay. Is it just me, or do the Habs not have assistant GMs? Their hockey ops website doesn’t show any ...

 

I doubt it is their plan to have no assistant GM(s) ... or necessarily to have Lapointe as Director of Player Personnel and Amateur Scouting in the long term, or that Ramage and Bouillon be the Player Development guys ... Hughes and Gorton may want to interview/target people currently under contract who might not "released" until after the season ... or may just want to let Hughes get the "lay of the land" before making any more hirings/firings.

 

EDIT: One thought ... might Martin Madden Jr be amenable to a move to Montreal if he is passed over for the Ducks job and doesn't get another open position?  It could make waiting worthwhile.

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9 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 As for the coaches, Boudreau is an obvious upgrade on DD.

 

 

I always thought Boudreau was entertaining and a great interview. However in his 15 years of NHL coaching he never got to the finals once despite having some of the most talented teams in the NHL (ie Washington, Anaheim), they usually flamed out in the 1st or 2nd round.  DD has already been to the finals. 

 

Not suggesting at all DD is a better coach, hard to compare a 15 year track record with a 1 year track record.  It's like comparing apples to oranges and like you say depends on where the team is in it's cycle.  As mentioned by many here, Habs need a coach who is good at player development. I am sure the last half of the year will give Gorton/Hughes a great opportunity to evaluate DD. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The Canucks also have a couple of assistant GMs, including Emilie Castonguay. Is it just me, or do the Habs not have assistant GMs? Their hockey ops website doesn’t show any.

 

They did have two in Mellanby and Timmins but both of them are gone now.  At some point, they'll need to hire one or two (or promote from within).

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28 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I always thought Boudreau was entertaining and a great interview. However in his 15 years of NHL coaching he never got to the finals once despite having some of the most talented teams in the NHL (ie Washington, Anaheim), they usually flamed out in the 1st or 2nd round.  DD has already been to the finals. 

 

Not suggesting at all DD is a better coach, hard to compare a 15 year track record with a 1 year track record.  It's like comparing apples to oranges and like you say depends on where the team is in it's cycle.  As mentioned by many here, Habs need a coach who is good at player development. I am sure the last half of the year will give Gorton/Hughes a great opportunity to evaluate DD. 

 

 

I’d say Boudreau is a better coach than Jean Perron - who even won a cup.

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34 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I always thought Boudreau was entertaining and a great interview. However in his 15 years of NHL coaching he never got to the finals once despite having some of the most talented teams in the NHL (ie Washington, Anaheim), they usually flamed out in the 1st or 2nd round.  DD has already been to the finals. 

 

Not suggesting at all DD is a better coach, hard to compare a 15 year track record with a 1 year track record.  It's like comparing apples to oranges and like you say depends on where the team is in it's cycle.  As mentioned by many here, Habs need a coach who is good at player development. I am sure the last half of the year will give Gorton/Hughes a great opportunity to evaluate DD. 

 

 

 

Never missed the playoffs for a team he coached for a full season. 

 

vs

 

Was out of the playoff race by the end of October, the only time he had a full season. 

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7 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I’d say Boudreau is a better coach than Jean Perron - who even won a cup.

 

Perhaps, I was never a big fan of Jean Perron.  Did Perron get lucky the year the Habs won or did he push all the right buttons. Hard to say looking from the outside.

 

 Not saying Boudreau was a bad coach, only that he had multiple opportunities with very talented teams and he never got to the finals once.  He couldn't figure out how to get them to take the next step. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Never missed the playoffs for a team he coached for a full season. 

 

vs

 

Was out of the playoff race by the end of October, the only time he had a full season. 

 

It would be embarrassing to miss the playoffs with the talent he had.  Again, not saying Boudreau was a bad coach only that he could never get teams to take the next step.  In my opinion he was a decent coach, able to get his teams to perform in the regular season but that's about it.  How do you think Boudreau would have done with the Habs this year? One thing for sure, the press conferences would have been fun. 

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4 minutes ago, Commandant said:

The talent he had in Minnesota?

 

His first couple years there Stall, Koivu, Parise, Suter were still in their early 30's, it was a pretty good roster.  Then they got older and he eventually got fired.  He had stacked rosters in Washington and Anaheim. I like Boudreau but he is not an elite coach. 

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2 minutes ago, Commandant said:

He may not be elite, but I'm not convinced we have an NHL-quality coach. 

 

And I am not saying DD is a good coach,  just saying it's hard for me to form  a strong opinion based on this train wreck of a year.  Gorton/Hughes will have a better idea at the end of the season and will make a decision. 

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1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

And I am not saying DD is a good coach,  just saying it's hard for me to form  a strong opinion based on this train wreck of a year.  Gorton/Hughes will have a better idea at the end of the season and will make a decision. 

 

I think the train wreck of a year is part of my evaluation. 

 

I don't expect him to make the playoffs, but I also don't think we should have the worst team in the NHL.  That tells me a lot. 

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13 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

I think the train wreck of a year is part of my evaluation. 

 

I don't expect him to make the playoffs, but I also don't think we should have the worst team in the NHL.  That tells me a lot. 

 

I don't think it's totally unfair to say that  "when handed a lemon, you make lemonade" and DD was certainly handed a big lemon this year.  I am just not sure how much better they would have done if he was a miracle worker. They were basically an average team last year before all the injuries/defections. 

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Random bit, just for a chuckle.:)

 

Hindsight, Philly 'slightly' missed on this 2017 pick. 

 

1 2 Philadelphia Nolan Patrick C Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL] 211 32 43 75 79 2021-22
1 3 Dallas Miro Heiskanen D HIFK Helsinki [SM-liiga] 245 32 88 120 58 2021-22
1 4 Colorado Cale Makar D Brooks Bandits [AJHL] 139 38 99 137 30 2021-22
1 5 Vancouver Elias Pettersson C Timra IK [Swe-1] 208 76 101 177 44 2021-22
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Just now, DON said:

Random bit, just for a chuckle.:)

 

Hindsight, Philly 'slighted' missed on this 2017 pick. 

 

1 2 Philadelphia Nolan Patrick C Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL] 211 32 43 75 79 2021-22
1 3 Dallas Miro Heiskanen D HIFK Helsinki [SM-liiga] 245 32 88 120 58 2021-22
1 4 Colorado Cale Makar D Brooks Bandits [AJHL] 139 38 99 137 30 2021-22
1 5 Vancouver Elias Pettersson C Timra IK [Swe-1] 208 76 101 177 44 2021-22

 

No doubt, and Clarke (what a classy guy) was throwing Hextall under the bus a week ago for taking Patrick when apparently all his scouts wanted Makar.  However Patrick was a consensus #1 or #2 pick by all the noted experts (see link below). That's why I am a little suspicious of draft rankings. 

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017-draft/2017-nhl-draft-rankings

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13 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

No doubt, and Clarke (what a classy guy) was throwing Hextall under the bus a week ago for taking Patrick when apparently all his scouts wanted Makar.  However Patrick was a consensus #1 or #2 pick by all the noted experts (see link below). That's why I am a little suspicious of draft rankings. 

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017-draft/2017-nhl-draft-rankings

Just (like most Hab fans i think?) not big fan of Philly and simply glad Makar etc not with them.

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8 minutes ago, DON said:

Just (like most Hab fans i think?) not big fan of Philly and simply glad Makar etc not with them.

 

Yup, Flyers have always been my most hated team since the Broad Street Bullies, couldn't stand Clarke, Dupont, Saleski, Schultz, Bridgman  etc etc,. Beating the Flyers in 1976 was definitely one of the high points if not the pinnacle of being a Habs fan.  The year they beat Boston, Chicago with Dryden as a rookie was also way up there.  Ah, the good ol days.

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2 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Yup, Flyers have always been my most hated team since the Broad Street Bullies, couldn't stand Clarke, Dupont, Saleski, Schultz, Bridgman  etc etc,. Beating the Flyers in 1976 was definitely one of the high points if not the pinnacle of being a Habs fan.  The year they beat Boston, Chicago with Dryden as a rookie was also way up there.  Ah, the good ol days.

Yup, remember was always a battle in mid-70s Leech, Macleash, Dornhoffer, Parant...

 

What was story when Habs finally overcame bit of Philly dominance, Bowman put out 5 d-men to start game or period to goon it up, or something like that wasnt it?

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11 minutes ago, DON said:

Yup, remember was always a battle in mid-70s Leech, Macleash, Dornhoffer, Parant...

 

What was story when Habs finally overcame bit of Philly dominance, Bowman put out 5 d-men to start game or period to goon it up, or something like that wasnt it?

 

I remember Big Bird destroying Schultz in a fight earlier during a big brawl and that put an end to the notion that the Habs were going to be pushed around by those goons. They also had guys like Bouchard, Chartraw, Lambert who were pretty tough. That year ended the Flyers dominance which was great to see. Bowman did do some pretty interesting things, I think there would unanimous agreement on this board that Bowman was a pretty shrewd coach. 

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3 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

No doubt, and Clarke (what a classy guy) was throwing Hextall under the bus a week ago for taking Patrick when apparently all his scouts wanted Makar.  However Patrick was a consensus #1 or #2 pick by all the noted experts (see link below). That's why I am a little suspicious of draft rankings. 

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017-draft/2017-nhl-draft-rankings

 

Are scouts supposed to have crystal balls and know that Nolan Patrick is going to suffer concussion issues after he's drafted?

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