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2021-22 NHL Discussion Thread


tomh009
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11 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Is Krebs a sure thing?  If we were talking October 2020, I’d include Caufield. I’m more confident he will be elite now - no guarantees still. Right now Krebs may be Lars Eller. I’m not sold on Dvorak, but everyone on this site seemed to live the trade and consider him a second line centre. I also said two other prospects and a first. That could be Guhle - who I really like. But, I wouldn’t give up more than that for a guy with health uncertainty. I really think the move is a roll the dice fir both sides. Sabres have a lot of young players the are  hoping will be top players. They need some players that still have 4-5 years of solid production ahead of them.

 

I like how you avoided my question - would you take an equivalent package of Dvorak and Romanov from another team for Caufield?  Even if you're saying there are other pieces involved (which there also were in the actual trade), quantity doesn't equal quality.  I know that's the hallmark of your proposals (three or four lesser pieces for one good one) but I know I wouldn't; your proposal is for them to do exactly that though.

 

Krebs isn't a sure thing but neither is Caufield.  They were picked two picks apart in the draft.  Their standalone trade value is pretty much identical; it probably won't change for another year or so unless one really gets established as an impact NHL'er this season.

 

The deal's done, Eichel isn't coming to the Habs and the Habs weren't permitting his desired surgery.  No point in trying to fabricate a scenario to blame Bergevin down the road for a deal that wasn't happening for a return that's worse for Buffalo than what they actually received.

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3 hours ago, DON said:

Arizona 0-10-1...what a crappy franchise this has been. 

 

It really has been a complete waste of time, kept on life support by Bettman’s obsession and the league’s disdain for relocation (since it doesn’t bring usurious expansion fees).

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43 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

I like how you avoided my question - would you take an equivalent package of Dvorak and Romanov from another team for Caufield?  Even if you're saying there are other pieces involved (which there also were in the actual trade), quantity doesn't equal quality.  I know that's the hallmark of your proposals (three or four lesser pieces for one good one) but I know I wouldn't; your proposal is for them to do exactly that though.

 

Krebs isn't a sure thing but neither is Caufield.  They were picked two picks apart in the draft.  Their standalone trade value is pretty much identical; it probably won't change for another year or so unless one really gets established as an impact NHL'er this season.

 

The deal's done, Eichel isn't coming to the Habs and the Habs weren't permitting his desired surgery.  No point in trying to fabricate a scenario to blame Bergevin down the road for a deal that wasn't happening for a return that's worse for Buffalo than what they actually received.


Well said, so many posts expecting teams to take multiple, minimal impact players in exchange for an elite player.

personally, don’t think Eichel is worth the hype and is never going to be a real difference maker, think he ends up a Ryan Johansen in Nashville (decent player but never met the level expected).

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35 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:

Well said, so many posts expecting teams to take multiple, minimal impact players in exchange for an elite player.

personally, don’t think Eichel is worth the hype and is never going to be a real difference maker, think he ends up a Ryan Johansen in Nashville (decent player but never met the level expected).

 

I think he'll do well in Vegas.  He'll have some better wingers than he had in Buffalo in a much more electric environment.  I think that will get him going compared to him going through the motions near the end of his time with the Sabres.  How the Golden Knights can afford this - they'll have to make a cost-cutting move to activate him later on - remains to be seen.

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1 minute ago, dlbalr said:

I think he'll do well in Vegas.  He'll have some better wingers than he had in Buffalo in a much more electric environment.  I think that will get him going compared to him going through the motions near the end of his time with the Sabres.  How the Golden Knights can afford this - they'll have to make a cost-cutting move to activate him later on - remains to be seen.

 

But it is what a skilled general manager with the courage of his convictions can do ... there are very few across the NHL

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55 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

I think he'll do well in Vegas.  He'll have some better wingers than he had in Buffalo in a much more electric environment.  I think that will get him going compared to him going through the motions near the end of his time with the Sabres.  How the Golden Knights can afford this - they'll have to make a cost-cutting move to activate him later on - remains to be seen.

 

Won't it be like the Kucherov situation where he is ready just in time for playoffs so the salary cap won't matter?  I hope the surgery works for Eichel as he is such a terrific talent.  Bottom line is that it is a bit of a gamble by Vegas as they are gambling that the surgery works.  If it does then it will turn out to be a great trade for Vegas as Eichel is a stud and just entering the prime of his career. Players like him are not easy to come by. 

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26 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Won't it be like the Kucherov situation where he is ready just in time for playoffs so the salary cap won't matter?  I hope the surgery works for Eichel as he is such a terrific talent.  Bottom line is that it is a bit of a gamble by Vegas as they are gambling that the surgery works.  If it does then it will turn out to be a great trade for Vegas as Eichel is a stud and just entering the prime of his career. Players like him are not easy to come by. 

 

3-5 months as of Friday the 12th which is when he's having the surgery.  He's back before the end of the season in both timelines.  Even if he isn't and it is another Kucherov situation, the cap issue is still going to be there next year where they will have about $4 million and at least nine players to spend that on.  With the minimum at $750,000, it doesn't work.  They're going to lose another notable player as a part of this trade at some point.

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2 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:


Well said, so many posts expecting teams to take multiple, minimal impact players in exchange for an elite player.

personally, don’t think Eichel is worth the hype and is never going to be a real difference maker, think he ends up a Ryan Johansen in Nashville (decent player but never met the level expected).

 

Agree with the first part of your post however Eichel has already been a far superior player to Johansen (who I agree has been a disappointment).  Eichel has been a point a game player on a bad Buffalo team, if he is healthy (no guarantee on that) then he will score 100 points next year in Vegas, I have no doubt about that. He is a stud. 

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4 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

I like how you avoided my question - would you take an equivalent package of Dvorak and Romanov from another team for Caufield?  Even if you're saying there are other pieces involved (which there also were in the actual trade), quantity doesn't equal quality.  I know that's the hallmark of your proposals (three or four lesser pieces for one good one) but I know I wouldn't; your proposal is for them to do exactly that though.

 

Krebs isn't a sure thing but neither is Caufield.  They were picked two picks apart in the draft.  Their standalone trade value is pretty much identical; it probably won't change for another year or so unless one really gets established as an impact NHL'er this season.

 

The deal's done, Eichel isn't coming to the Habs and the Habs weren't permitting his desired surgery.  No point in trying to fabricate a scenario to blame Bergevin down the road for a deal that wasn't happening for a return that's worse for Buffalo than what they actually received.

I never proposed a deal of just Romanov and Dvorak, for Krebs or for Eichal - in face for Eichal, they were 2 of 5 pieces that included a 1st, pick from two of our prospects (which could potentially have included Guhle), and either Anderson, or Gallagher.

 

Your not looking at the other pieces. As far as valuing Dvorak, I have already said that I DON’T place a high value for Dvorak. I didn’t like giving up a 1st and 2nd for him, particularly not any deal that put our own 1st (if not lottery), this year, or next year in play.  But here and media types thought it was a good deal, so they obviously place a higher premium on Dvorak. MB obviously thinks highly of of him.  Romanov, I think can be a very good player. I just think it will be in Montreal, because if the shot job we do developing players. If a player isn’t ready to step in and be a solid player on their own, I have zero confidence in this organization helping a player get their. They haven’t done it yet during MB’s tenure.

 

as far as Krebs veined picked 2 picks after Caufield - big shit.  Dylan Steone was taken two picks after Mcdavid, are they equivalent?  Tkachuk and Hughes were taken before KK, who would you rather have??  Caufield won the hobie baker, and has shown he can score. Maybe Krebs ends up being better (he had a better world junior series last year), but Caufield has shown he is more NHL ready, and produce in the NHL playoffs, and was one of the biggest threats on our team. Krebs hasn’t had any success yet at all. So I’d value Caufield a lot more highly then Krebs at this stage.

 

How many times have we heard that established elite centres are available, and you can’t acquire them. Until they are, and other teams seem to be able to make deals.  Same thing with dmen. 
 

im still very skeptical they Eichal can be the same player; and that is the only reason I wouldn’t move Suzuki; or Caufield. But at this stage with the hamster wheel decades of being a bubble team, I’d look ill the dice and would have given Buffalo, pretty much anything else.

 

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3 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:


Well said, so many posts expecting teams to take multiple, minimal impact players in exchange for an elite player.

personally, don’t think Eichel is worth the hype and is never going to be a real difference maker, think he ends up a Ryan Johansen in Nashville (decent player but never met the level expected).

And how many proven impact players did Athe Sabres get. Zero. They got a second line winger and prospects/picks.

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On 11/5/2021 at 2:05 PM, hab29RETIRED said:

C[...]

 

- I think giving them two prospects in the juniors, a non lottery first rounder (what they get from vegas)

-Dvorak- to address a need at centre- I’ve been hearing how great he is coveted and how great his contract is 

-Gallagher- need leadership- I think he is washed up, or pretty close to it, but he seems to still be held in reverence  other option id given up is Anderson 

-Romanov- has no t looked good, but again, is still someone others hood in high regardS what be a good complement to a guy like Dahlin, if he progresses

 

1. which two prospects in Juniors? J.Olofsson, Harris, Struble, Guhle, Tuch, Mysak, Farrel, Mailloux, Kidney, O.Kapanen, Kostenko? Nothing elite there

2. a protected 1st rounder (ok, same as VGK)

3. a 3rd line centre (less valuable than Tuch)

4. an overpriced declining RW

5. a D prospect with poor hockey IQ

 

I don't see how this is a competitive offer for Eichel.

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34 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I never proposed a deal of just Romanov and Dvorak, for Krebs or for Eichal - in face for Eichal, they were 2 of 5 pieces that included a 1st, pick from two of our prospects (which could potentially have included Guhle), and either Anderson, or Gallagher.

 

Your not looking at the other pieces. As far as valuing Dvorak, I have already said that I DON’T place a high value for Dvorak. I didn’t like giving up a 1st and 2nd for him, particularly not any deal that put our own 1st (if not lottery), this year, or next year in play.  But here and media types thought it was a good deal, so they obviously place a higher premium on Dvorak. MB obviously thinks highly of of him.  Romanov, I think can be a very good player. I just think it will be in Montreal, because if the shot job we do developing players. If a player isn’t ready to step in and be a solid player on their own, I have zero confidence in this organization helping a player get their. They haven’t done it yet during MB’s tenure.

 

as far as Krebs veined picked 2 picks after Caufield - big shit.  Dylan Steone was taken two picks after Mcdavid, are they equivalent?  Tkachuk and Hughes were taken before KK, who would you rather have??  Caufield won the hobie baker, and has shown he can score. Maybe Krebs ends up being better (he had a better world junior series last year), but Caufield has shown he is more NHL ready, and produce in the NHL playoffs, and was one of the biggest threats on our team. Krebs hasn’t had any success yet at all. So I’d value Caufield a lot more highly then Krebs at this stage.

 

I know the other parts.  We worked out that Anderson was close to Tuch and the prospects you proposed are largely equivalent to the picks that Vegas gave up.  Yes, you had one extra pick but that's the premium for Buffalo moving their franchise player to a division rival and not out of conference.  Those cancel each other out, making the main difference in the proposal being that you substituted Dvorak and Romanov for Krebs, disputing my suggestion that Krebs has the same value as Caufield.  That's where I pulled my question from because to me, the two are very close in value.

 

Krebs and Caufield were picked in 2019.  Neither have established themselves as full-time NHL'ers so to compare that to McDavid and Dylan Strome, Tkachuk and Kotkaniemi who are further along in their careers is ridiculous.  Those are established players; the others are prospects.  They're not at all the same comparison. 

 

Clearly, we disagree on Krebs' value.  To me, it's very clear that he's at the same level as Caufield in terms of trade value.  Until one player plays better for an extended period (not six weeks), that will continue to be the case.  And when you have two unproven players close in value, draft status becomes an important factor where they're once again even. 

 

He was the top piece of the trade, not Tuch, not the first-round pick.  For your offer to be reasonable, the substitution needs to be a centrepiece type of player like Krebs was.  Dvorak and Romanov are good players but neither of them are centrepiece elements of a trade for a number one centre.  Who is a centrepiece type of player?  Caufield and Suzuki.  Without one of them, Buffalo wouldn't have entertained the idea of moving Eichel to Montreal.  You may want to think otherwise but I think you'd be alone on that front.

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6 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Yeah. The ONLY thing these guys give a sh*t about is money, so the only way to force a culture change is to hit ‘em hard in their wallets.

No different than NFL, NBA or MLB ... but doesn't make it any better, just sadder

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12 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Yeah. The ONLY thing these guys give a sh*t about is money, so the only way to force a culture change is to hit ‘em hard in their wallets.

 

Agree.  I also agree with what Jeff Marek said about the interview with Bettman and Daly. They sounded like lawyers, they spoke intelligently but there was zero compassion or empathy that came across. This was a time to show empathy. I guess Bettman has been a lawyer too long. 

 

At least Kevin Cheveldayoff and Jets chairman Mark Chipman demonstrated a little more of the human element that was required in their interview. 

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Ducharme also says that Dvorak and Anderson are probable for tonight, but Drouin and Norlinder will not play.

 

Poehling will play.Ducharme says Poehling plays with Pezzetta and Belzile tonight.

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Mario cashing in his chips

 

 

Any chance he wants to move back to Montreal and buy (buy-into) the Habs?

Kidding ... I have a better chance with my ticket in tonight's LottoMax

 

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17 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Mario cashing in his chips

 

 

Any chance he wants to move back to Montreal and buy (buy-into) the Habs?

Kidding ... I have a better chance with my ticket in tonight's LottoMax

 

 

I think Mario is a pretty smart guy, Letang is 34, Crosby is 34, Malkin is 35.  He sees the writing on the wall and realizes in 2-3 years that perhaps they might have a mediocre team.  He rode the wave, time to sell while they still have a decent team and interest may be high. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

meanwhile in the land of the never-ending rebuild:

 

 

 

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