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Oct 21 2021 Habs vs Kotkaniemi (and his team) 7:00pm


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4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I'm not a 100% convinced believer in KK, but I will be shocked if he does not score at least 1 goal tonight. It's a perfect combination: atrocious habs team, highly motivated kid, and we're the habs, so that means every high-profile player we trade away is guaranteed to come back and humiliate us at least once.

 

Well, that’s one call I got right 🙄 Not that it took much guesswork.

 

I had to listen to this one on the radio of all things. It sounded to me like - despite the result - the Habs were working harder and getting legitimate chances. If that’s right, then it might be the kind of game you have right before you come out of a slump. Any takers on that optimistic thought - ?

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2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, that’s one call I got right 🙄 Not that it took much guesswork.

 

I had to listen to this one on the radio of all things. It sounded to me like - despite the result - the Habs were working harder and getting legitimate chances. If that’s right, then it might be the kind of game you have right before you come out of a slump. Any takers on that optimistic thought - ?

I don’t know.. migraines are less painful then watching their defensive game…

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They are digging a pretty big hole and earning the losses.

Suzuki has won just 3 of 17 PP faceoffs so far, not real good result. Imagine Dvorak will have to start taking more of them.

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1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

At this point call up buffalo give them what ever they want for Eichel 

 

What good does Eichel do to fix this right now?  He still has to have surgery and will miss a big chunk of the season at a minimum.

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47 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I had to listen to this one on the radio of all things. It sounded to me like - despite the result - the Habs were working harder and getting legitimate chances. If that’s right, then it might be the kind of game you have right before you come out of a slump. Any takers on that optimistic thought - ?

 

At times, they were definitely pushing back and generating some quality chances - Andersen was definitely sharp.  At other times, they were like they had been the last few games, very passive and not playing with any sort of energy.  It's a small step in the right direction but there's a long way to go.

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I was optimistic, and if it was not for the disallowed goal I think they could have won

 

I liked Hoffman, Gallagher, Dvorak’s line, Allen, Kulak and maybe Petry (don’t remember how he played)


Perrault was better than Evans and Brooks have been

 

Habs will loose more than win for the rest of October 

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28 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

What good does Eichel do to fix this right now?  He still has to have surgery and will miss a big chunk of the season at a minimum.

Help guarantee the best draft odds. Only issue is that the probably would want Suzuki or Caulfield, which i wouldn’t want to do, given the uncertainty over Eichel’s health. They’d probably also want a first - again not something I’d want to do given how crappy we are, and it looks like it would be a lottery pick. Also would be a convoluted terms, given the trade we already made with Phoenix.

If Dvorak+Prospect+Lekhonan  and a second, would get it done, I’d call it a tank year and make the trade.

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An interesting scenario is brewing. The Habs are emerging as early candidates to be one of the worst teams in hockey. We have many players who will be quite desirable to contenders at the deadline. But we also have a GM who appears to be on the way out.

 

Do you keep Bergevin in place and trust him to make those deadline deals for the long-term interest of the franchise, and for which he will not be held accountable if and when he leaves? Or do you show him the door and bring in a new guy by, say, December, so that he can make decisions based on his own assessment and long-term vision? The latter seems like the best idea to me, notwithstanding the standard wisdom that summer is when you want to be hiring a new GM.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

An interesting scenario is brewing. The Habs are emerging as early candidates to be one of the worst teams in hockey. We have many players who will be quite desirable to contenders at the deadline. But we also have a GM who appears to be on the way out.

 

Do you keep Bergevin in place and trust him to make those deadline deals for the long-term interest of the franchise, and for which he will not be held accountable if and when he leaves? Or do you show him the door and bring in a new guy by, say, December, so that he can make decisions based on his own assessment and long-term vision? The latter seems like the best idea to me, notwithstanding the standard wisdom that summer is when you want to be hiring a new GM.

 

 

I wouldn’ t trust him with that, not because he wouldn’t do his best but because his best isn’t good enough. I really don’t want him extended for the draft. I would want a new GM to Have time to revamp the scouting team long before the draft.

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2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

What good does Eichel do to fix this right now?  He still has to have surgery and will miss a big chunk of the season at a minimum.


The prosthetic disc talk around Eichel should scare everyone away. Highly improbable that he has a long career.

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9 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

An interesting scenario is brewing. The Habs are emerging as early candidates to be one of the worst teams in hockey. We have many players who will be quite desirable to contenders at the deadline. But we also have a GM who appears to be on the way out.

 

Do you keep Bergevin in place and trust him to make those deadline deals for the long-term interest of the franchise, and for which he will not be held accountable if and when he leaves? Or do you show him the door and bring in a new guy by, say, December, so that he can make decisions based on his own assessment and long-term vision? The latter seems like the best idea to me, notwithstanding the standard wisdom that summer is when you want to be hiring a new GM.

 

 

I’m not sure this is a GM firing situation.  With the additions in the e offseason, MB addressed scoring by bringing in Hoffman and replaced Danault with Dvorak.  Neither of which should be bad moves.  You can’t replace Weber easily, and he did an OK job of finding a guy under budget who can eat some minutes.  From the outside looking in, I don’t see his off-season move that bad.

 

the real issue is the team is massively underperforming.  That is coaching and personnel.  Even with Price back, playing like his playoff self, won’t make a difference in this situation.  We all know that this team isn’t as bad as the results, and I don’t think anyone can dispute that.  It seems like they lack leadership and motivation.

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27 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

I’m not sure this is a GM firing situation.  With the additions in the e offseason, MB addressed scoring by bringing in Hoffman and replaced Danault with Dvorak.  Neither of which should be bad moves.  You can’t replace Weber easily, and he did an OK job of finding a guy under budget who can eat some minutes.  From the outside looking in, I don’t see his off-season move that bad.

 

the real issue is the team is massively underperforming.  That is coaching and personnel.  Even with Price back, playing like his playoff self, won’t make a difference in this situation.  We all know that this team isn’t as bad as the results, and I don’t think anyone can dispute that.  It seems like they lack leadership and motivation.

 

For sure they are underperforming. But setting aside the question of whether this is a “firing situation” in and of itself, the fact is that MB is on the last year of his contract and there are serious rumours of his not returning.

 

Meanwhile - although it’s early - the signs are that this will be a season in which the Habs will be sellers at the deadline. By the time February rolls around, people on this board may well be asking all sorts of questions we had thought previously unthinkable: e.g., what can Petry or Gallagher get back as a deadline deal? That’s a quite different category of decision from what I for one expected the GM to be making. I thought we’d be a bubble team, i.e., business as usual.

 

So the question is: if you’re Molson, and you know your GM may not return (either because he’s fed up, or because his demands are exorbitant, or because you yourself are lukewarm about him) do you let him make a number of decisions with lasting implications for the franchise, e.g., trading veterans for prospects, that sort of thing? Or do you accelerate the process and bring the new guy in so he (or she) has time to evaluate and decide?

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28 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

For sure they are underperforming. But setting aside the question of whether this is a “firing situation” in and of itself, the fact is that MB is on the last year of his contract and there are serious rumours of his not returning.

 

Meanwhile - although it’s early - the signs are that this will be a season in which the Habs will be sellers at the deadline. By the time February rolls around, people on this board may well be asking all sorts of questions we had thought previously unthinkable: e.g., what can Petry or Gallagher get back as a deadline deal? That’s a quite different category of decision from what I for one expected the GM to be making. I thought we’d be a bubble team, i.e., business as usual.

 

So the question is: if you’re Molson, and you know your GM may not return (either because he’s fed up, or because his demands are exorbitant, or because you yourself are lukewarm about him) do you let him make a number of decisions with lasting implications for the franchise, e.g., trading veterans for prospects, that sort of thing? Or do you accelerate the process and bring the new guy in so he (or she) has time to evaluate and decide?

I think that will be a decision made mid-season.  When the real 21-22 Habs are defined and MB has made up him mind.

 

As much as it pains me to say, I’m not opposed to selling off anyone over 25 for prospects and picks and fully rebuild.  Strike while the iron is hot and the values are high.  With the ability to retain salary due to a rebuild, more can be acquired.  I do realize this is very premature and we are only 5 games in the season.  Watching this team fail this badly is painful.

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13 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

I think that will be a decision made mid-season.  When the real 21-22 Habs are defined and MB has made up him mind.

 

As much as it pains me to say, I’m not opposed to selling off anyone over 25 for prospects and picks and fully rebuild.  Strike while the iron is hot and the values are high.  With the ability to retain salary due to a rebuild, more can be acquired.  I do realize this is very premature and we are only 5 games in the season.  Watching this team fail this badly is painful.

 

I am the furthest thing from a “tankist.” But this organization has a dearth of elite talent and the post-Price/Weber future (as I have been saying for 3-4 years now) looks pretty bleak. This season is shaping up to be a disaster. If so, we should capitalize on it to add a major infusion of high-level prospect talent. Anybody should be on the table except Suzuki and CC. 

 

And if that’s the scenario, I think we should hire a new GM to make those moves.

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12 hours ago, dlbalr said:

At times, they were definitely pushing back and generating some quality chances - Andersen was definitely sharp.  At other times, they were like they had been the last few games, very passive and not playing with any sort of energy.  It's a small step in the right direction but there's a long way to go.

I agree that the direction is right. Andersen was awarded the first star so he was a contributing factor.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

So the question is: if you’re Molson, and you know your GM may not return (either because he’s fed up, or because his demands are exorbitant, or because you yourself are lukewarm about him) do you let him make a number of decisions with lasting implications for the franchise, e.g., trading veterans for prospects, that sort of thing? Or do you accelerate the process and bring the new guy in so he (or she) has time to evaluate and decide?

Yes ... it really depends on whether Molson is intent on getting Bergevin signed to an extension, or whether he has given up on Bergevin. If the latter, then making the move earlier could make sense -- if his preferred candidate is available early.

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I do not expect a decision until Edmundson is back with the team and has had a chance to play 5-6 games

 

If they loose more than they win, I am fine too. I would keep MB until the end of the season regardless of the contract situation. I also have sufficient confidence in him and the braintrust to be sellers at the trade deadline or to make any changes needed.

 

they have LTIR cap room and:

2x 1st roud

1x  2nd round

3x 3rd round

2x 4th round

1x 5th round

1x 6th round

2x 7th round

 

that's 6 on the top 100 out of 12 total picks

 

they also have Ylonen and a few tier-2 prospects that could be packaged.

 

They are well positioned to improve the team short term at the deadline, or to reset

 

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11 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I do not expect a decision until Edmundson is back with the team and has had a chance to play 5-6 games

 

If they loose more than they win, I am fine too. I would keep MB until the end of the season regardless of the contract situation. I also have sufficient confidence in him and the braintrust to be sellers at the trade deadline or to make any changes needed.

 

they have LTIR cap room and:

2x 1st roud

1x  2nd round

3x 3rd round

2x 4th round

1x 5th round

1x 6th round

2x 7th round

 

that's 6 on the top 100 out of 12 total picks

 

they also have Ylonen and a few tier-2 prospects that could be packaged.

 

They are well positioned to improve the team short term at the deadline, or to reset

 

One of those firsts will be going to Arizona from the Dvorak trade.

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Just now, TurdBurglar said:

One of those firsts will be going to Arizona from the Dvorak trade.

yeah, you are right. It was right there on the webpage but I missed it, thanks!

 

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/DraftTrades/Future/Canadiens.htm

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12 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Help guarantee the best draft odds. Only issue is that the probably would want Suzuki or Caulfield, which i wouldn’t want to do, given the uncertainty over Eichel’s health. They’d probably also want a first - again not something I’d want to do given how crappy we are, and it looks like it would be a lottery pick. Also would be a convoluted terms, given the trade we already made with Phoenix.

If Dvorak+Prospect+Lekhonan  and a second, would get it done, I’d call it a tank year and make the trade.

 

Unless that prospect is Caufield, Buffalo would hang the phone up laughing.  There's no way your proposal would be enough for the Sabres to move him in the division - they are in no rush to trade him and can afford to wait this out - and the cap consequences for Montreal in such a move would be massive.  They can't afford to take on money at all for next season let alone more than $5 million.  (And for this year, they'd be in big trouble if Eichel was to play a single game.)

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54 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I do not expect a decision until Edmundson is back with the team and has had a chance to play 5-6 games

 

If they loose more than they win, I am fine too. I would keep MB until the end of the season regardless of the contract situation. I also have sufficient confidence in him and the braintrust to be sellers at the trade deadline or to make any changes needed.

 

they have LTIR cap room and:

2x 1st roud

1x  2nd round

3x 3rd round

2x 4th round

1x 5th round

1x 6th round

2x 7th round

 

that's 6 on the top 100 out of 12 total picks

 

they also have Ylonen and a few tier-2 prospects that could be packaged.

 

They are well positioned to improve the team short term at the deadline, or to reset

 

They don't have LTIR room for the full season.  Once Price and Byron return, the Habs are capped out even with Weber's LTIR.  They might have enough to afford a recall from Laval making the minimum but that's about it.  (And unlike regular cap space, LTIR room doesn't accrue on a daily basis, they can't bank LTIR room to use later.)

 

We know Byron will be back midseason and Price's is less certain but Bergevin expressed confidence he'd be back.  But let's say he doesn't and that LTIR room is there.  But if the Habs are without Price for the season, are they going to be buyers?  Probably not.

 

In Bergevin's presser the other day, he expressed confidence in the roster but also that they don't have a lot of flexibility and are basically in a money in, money out situation.  And he's 100% correct about the cap situation even if looks like they're loaded in room right now.

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