GDT Oct. 26, Habs vs Kraken, 10 PM

[Habsfan89]

First time watching a full game my takes on it is this 

 

The players look lost playing the defensive system. A lot of missed coverage.

 

What happen to that aggressive D from the first 8 games of the season last year? They hit everything, created turn overs, push the offense which generated goals. 

 

This system that is in place just doesn't seem to suit these players. 

[tomh009]

1 hour ago, hockeyrealist said:

Too add, we have an overpaid fourth line/partial third line wingers who have yet to show a reason that they justify that.

Lehks and Armia were supposed to be an asset to exploit other teams supposedly weaker fourth lines/shut down opposing top six. Haven’t seen much of that.

Drouin had his worst game vs Seattle , some bad turnovers/passes, was largely invisible.

his pass to Niku , that Niku has to take in skates was the cause for that turnover which lead directly to goal is one example.  He needs to make that basic pass to find a trailing dman in stride.

Toffoli, Caufield, Armia and Paquette were the only players with better than 50% Corsi last night. Lehkonen did over five minutes of PK, highest of the forwards by far.

 

Drouin did not have a good game but he has been one of our best forwards so far this season.

[Commandant]

We have one game this season where we have scored more than 1 goal. 

 

Last night we had a grand total of 2, count them, 2, high danger scoring chances while playing 5v5 hockey.  One of them was Hoffman's goal.

 

We don't have stars, but we have 3-4 lines of deep scoring.  There is no excuse to simply get no chances.

 

I'm sorry, I can't blame the players on this one.  It has to go to the coaching. 

 

Under Julien, I defended him as we would get more high danger chances than the opponents, but just couldn't finish on those chances at times, leading to low scoring which i said, is not the coach's fault, he can only put the players in position to score the goals, the players have to score them.

 

I watch these games and I can't diagnose what system the team is playing. I have no idea what the breakout plan is, what the plan in the neutral zone is, what the plan on the forecheck is.  The only thing where i can see the plan is the power play and that is a horrible plan of run everything through a point shot. 

 

I feared this last year and before the playoffs said Ducharme is not the long term answer for the team.  The playoff run obviously gave him some rope and you couldn't fire him at that point.... but all these players all not scoring, its on the coaching.  This isn't just bad luck where we are in slumps and not converting chances, we aren't even creating chances and thats a major flaw.

[tomh009]

1 minute ago, Commandant said:

I watch these games and I can't diagnose what system the team is playing. I have no idea what the breakout plan is, what the plan in the neutral zone is, what the plan on the forecheck is.  The only thing where i can see the plan is the power play and that is a horrible plan of run everything through a point shot.

I am mystified, too. Is Ducharme's system too complicated for the players to be able to execute? Because I think that's the fundamental issue here: they are not playing the system, or any system. On the other hand, the Kraken were able to execute their plan ...

[Commandant]

12 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I am mystified, too. Is Ducharme's system too complicated for the players to be able to execute? Because I think that's the fundamental issue here: they are not playing the system, or any system. On the other hand, the Kraken were able to execute their plan ...

 

Yeah, I see them competing in one-on-one situations, I see the will to win individually, I just don't see a five man unit. 

 

Its not effort that is the problem.  There is no system being played.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

16 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Yeah, I see them competing in one-on-one situations, I see the will to win individually, I just don't see a five man unit. 

 

Its not effort that is the problem.  There is no system being played.

 

Are Michel Therrien, Alain Vigneault or Claude Julien available?  What about Bob Hartley or Guy Boucher?  So many options. 

[Neech]

Ducharme is the perfect tank commander. Julien's system would get this squad to 9th in the east.  We need to lose big this year and start next season with a clean slate.

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Well...there HAS to be a system. No coach just throws guys out there and says "got get 'em." I believe it was Petry who said in a post-game interview that the players are not going out and executing the system.

 

But why not? Is it a new system, and therefore confusing? If not, how come they could execute it in the playoffs but not now, suddenly? Or are there too many new guys who are struggling to adapt, and messing up the other guys in consequence?

 

Or - another possibility - are we looking at a Jean Perron situation? When the team won in 1986, Perron was coach, but it is widely believed that a whole lot of de facto coaching was done by Gainey and Robinson. (That Perron was fired a couple of years later and never hired again tends to support this interpretation). Maybe Weber and/or Price and/or Danault fulfilled a sort of de facto coaching function, and with them gone, the players are rudderless. In other words, maybe DD is a crap coach who was subsidized by major veteran leadership in the playoffs.

[BCHabnut]

4 hours ago, DON said:

 

Simply miss Price, Edmunston, Weber, Danault and replacements arnt cutting it, on what was a fairly weak team to begin with. 

 

100%

 

These 4 were huge in the playoff run. 

[Neech]

32 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

 

Or - another possibility - are we looking at a Jean Perron situation? When the team won in 1986, Perron was coach, but it is widely believed that a whole lot of de facto coaching was done by Gainey and Robinson. (That Perron was fired a couple of years later and never hired again tends to support this interpretation). Maybe Weber and/or Price and/or Danault fulfilled a sort of de facto coaching function, and with them gone, the players are rudderless. In other words, maybe DD is a crap coach who was subsidized by major veteran leadership in the playoffs.

 

I think this is it.  This team lost its leader in goal, on D and up front.  Weber in particular is revered in this league.  I don't think Ducharme has much juice on his own.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

12 minutes ago, Neech said:

 

I think this is it.  This team lost its leader in goal, on D and up front.  Weber in particular is revered in this league.  I don't think Ducharme has much juice on his own.

 

Plus there is a hangover that usually results from making it to the final and losing.  Players have a shorter mental break in the summer and aren't as refreshed come fall. Tampa has been off to slow starts the last couple years but they have the elite talent to recover, the Habs not so much. It could be a long year. 

[tomh009]

32 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Well...there HAS to be a system. No coach just throws guys out there and says "got get 'em." I believe it was Petry who said in a post-game interview that the players are not going out and executing the system.

 

But why not? Is it a new system, and therefore confusing? If not, how come they could execute it in the playoffs but not now, suddenly? Or are there too many new guys who are struggling to adapt, and messing up the other guys in consequence?

Ducharme is a system aficionado, to be sure. He is running practices to the system, and specifically targeting upcoming opponents.

 

So, I can see a number of different factors that could be contributing to this:

• Half the skaters are new and don't know the system
• Last year it took almost 10 games for the team to adapt to the system. Yeah, there was a training camp this time, but maybe they still need more time
• Ducharme has further developed his system (made it more complex) since last year
• Ducharme is tailoring the system for each opponent, meaning more learning before every game
• The players are older and dumber than last year
• Or the Jean Perron scenario, though it does seem like a long shot

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Well...there HAS to be a system. No coach just throws guys out there and says "got get 'em." I believe it was Petry who said in a post-game interview that the players are not going out and executing the system.

 

But why not? Is it a new system, and therefore confusing? If not, how come they could execute it in the playoffs but not now, suddenly? Or are there too many new guys who are struggling to adapt, and messing up the other guys in consequence?

 

Or - another possibility - are we looking at a Jean Perron situation? When the team won in 1986, Perron was coach, but it is widely believed that a whole lot of de facto coaching was done by Gainey and Robinson. (That Perron was fired a couple of years later and never hired again tends to support this interpretation). Maybe Weber and/or Price and/or Danault fulfilled a sort of de facto coaching function, and with them gone, the players are rudderless. In other words, maybe DD is a crap coach who was subsidized by major veteran leadership in the playoffs.

 

Obviously there is a system that Ducharme wants them to play.  I also refuse to believe there is no system. 

 

Its just hard to ascertain what it is, which must mean that it isn't being played correctly.  When a system is running like clockwork, it is very easy to see what the players are supposed to be doing. 

 

Right now we don't appear to be a five man unit at any point and teammates don't know what the others are doing. 

[tomh009]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Obviously there is a system that Ducharme wants them to play.  I also refuse to believe there is no system. 

 

Its just hard to ascertain what it is, which must mean that it isn't being played correctly.  When a system is running like clockwork, it is very easy to see what the players are supposed to be doing. 

 

Right now we don't appear to be a five man unit at any point and teammates don't know what the others are doing. 

Yes. And I think it's this, more than anything else, that's causing the floundering so far. The players we have are capable of doing better if they can only play together as a team.

[DON]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

Yes. And I think it's this, more than anything else, that's causing the floundering so far. The players we have are capable of doing better if they can only play together as a team.

i dont think even Scotty Bowman would have a winning record with this roster. But, sure hope i am dead wrong and they turn it around tomorrow.

[Neech]

3 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Plus there is a hangover that usually results from making it to the final and losing.  Players have a shorter mental break in the summer and aren't as refreshed come fall. Tampa has been off to slow starts the last couple years but they have the elite talent to recover, the Habs not so much. It could be a long year. 

 

We should rebound at some point, but our configuration at C and D puts a hard ceiling on how much we can claw back.  That's why I'm ready to throw in the towel so early this season, along with the top 10 pick protection of course.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It's fine to say this roster sucks, and maybe it does, but we have a huge number of proven forwards who are grossly under-producing at present, along with Petry, who has 0 points in 7 games. The group is very clearly playing way below its capacity.

 

On this subject - I know that Brendan Kelly is rather a trollish columnist, but he raises the question of Weber's shadowy status having a demoralizing effect on the team which maybe helps to explain the seeming vacuum of leadership we're seeing. And I can see the point. He was captain. He still is captain. He won't play this year, or maybe never again, unless he does, sort of. The team may be caught in a bit of a psychological limbo where the Great Leader is half-in and half-out, and that makes it hard for others to really step up and take charge. 

 

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/what-the-puck-the-weber-controversy-is-another-distraction-for-habs

 

Since it appears that we have to maintain the fiction that Weber is not retiring for some reason, maybe we should think about a co-captaincy? This team needs to turn the page on #6 and start owning its own performance.

[dlbalr]

5 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Well...there HAS to be a system. No coach just throws guys out there and says "got get 'em." I believe it was Petry who said in a post-game interview that the players are not going out and executing the system.

 

But why not? Is it a new system, and therefore confusing? If not, how come they could execute it in the playoffs but not now, suddenly? Or are there too many new guys who are struggling to adapt, and messing up the other guys in consequence?

 

I seem to recall reading that their desired system was to try to create mini 2-on-1's wherever possible (not just rushes but puck battles, coverages, etc) and then have a set of read and react options upon gaining puck control.  I think that could still be the case here as some players seem to think the play is one thing and others think it's something else, often leading to the ugliness we've seen so far.

[TurdBurglar]

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Obviously there is a system that Ducharme wants them to play.  I also refuse to believe there is no system. 

 

Its just hard to ascertain what it is, which must mean that it isn't being played correctly.  When a system is running like clockwork, it is very easy to see what the players are supposed to be doing. 

 

Right now we don't appear to be a five man unit at any point and teammates don't know what the others are doing. 

I’ve pointed the same thing out a few game ago.  Everybody generally seems lost on what they are supposed to be doing.  
 

One key indication that nobody knows what they are doing is area dumps.  Every zone has set area dumps for the puck when they get into trouble.  The purpose is there should be a teammate in that area to continue the play.  I’ve noticed often that the puck gets thrown to an area, and there is no Canadien there.  It always results in a turnover.

[DON]

https://www.habsworld.net/2021/10/whos-more-to-blame-for-montreals-early-struggles/

[alfredoh2009]

does any one know if the Habs had their rookie lunch before the SEA game?

 

watching the game, it seem like they do not have any energy, they are not moving their legs. Are out of position and are reaching for the puck with their arms instead of skating and moving their feet, are stationary and can't win a board battle

 

it would explain so much

[DON]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

does any one know if the Habs had their rookie lunch before the SEA game?

Vaguely thought was mentioned or hinted at?