alfredoh2009 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 every now and then, when piling on the Habs GM or professional scouts, the notion of Sergachev being a "stud defenseman" is he really? * he seems to play 3rd pair on a Stanley cup winning team, more often than not. * he plays lots of minutes and has good stats * but I wonder how much of that is due to being in a stacked team? Expected Goals Above Replacement (Evolving Hockey) Player GP TOI All TOI EV TOI PP TOI SH xEVO xEVD xPPO xSHD Take Draw xOff xDef Pens xGAR xWAR xSPAR Sergachev Total - 295 5507.9 4670.2 522.4 218.6 8.6 4 4.2 2.4 0.3 -0.1 12.8 6.4 0.1 19.3 3.6 6.8 NHL Possession Metrics (Hockey-Reference) Season Age Team Lg GP TOI CF CA CF% CF% rel FF FA FF% FF% rel oiGF oiSH% oiGA oiSV% PDO oZS% dZS% 5 yrs TBL NHL 291 5458.8 5429 4514 54.6 4.7 4070 3445 54.2 4.1 300 10.3 219 91.5 101.8 60.3 39.7 On Ice (Natural Stat Trick) Season Team GP TOI CF% FF% xG% SCF% HDCF% HDGF% On-Ice SH% On-Ice SV% PDO 2016-17 MTL 4 46 43.68 40.58 35.26 36.96 27.27 33.33 15.79 94.12 1.099 2017-18 T.B 79 1023 54.01 53.20 54.35 53.69 53.89 61.36 9.45 92.82 1.023 2018-19 T.B 75 1174 54.05 53.64 53.61 53.31 52.91 56.92 9.38 91.76 1.011 2019-20 T.B 70 1130 52.91 51.81 54.35 55.67 55.17 51.16 9.27 92.87 1.021 2020-21 T.B 56 947 50.95 50.76 53.86 51.97 52.74 67.39 9.09 93.42 1.025 2021-22 T.B 11 182 47.59 47.14 48.10 47.85 59.68 62.50 10.53 91.67 1.022 He is a top 20 offensive D (if I believe my query) and if having low High Danger Scoring Chances is an indicator, he is top 20 : How much of his stats are due from playing for TBL, and how much is it him being a stud D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 All stats get inflated when on a good team. For example, Sergachev has his assignment on TB and mostly only has to worry about his assignment as other players on that team are good enough to mostly fulfill their assignment. Therefore his sole focus can be his own assignment. Playing on a worse team, you expect the players around you to make mistakes, making you worry about your assignment. theirs and the potential fallout of that. It's what is commonly referred to as over-thinking the game. The only exception of this are players that are skilled enough to influence the play around them. These are your McDavid's and young Weber's. Just their presence makes opponents play different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 His stats look pretty good to me. Of course you have presented many stats which I don't have a clue about. What the the heck is XOff or XPPO?? I will continue to say that the Drouin - Sergachev trade was a bad one no wonder what this plethora of stats say. What do the stats say for Drouin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Well, if his stats say top 20 D, do Drouin’s stats say top 20 C, since that’s what position he was sold as after the trade? Or heck, let’s ignore that and see if he’s top 20 at LW. The Habs still have glaring holes at D, and at C. In the long run, this trade has accomplished nothing for the Habs. Really though, this is somewhat of an odd post, as this is routinely a trade that is panned, and Timmins given high marks for drafting Sergachev. I think most people simply believe the Habs would be better off today with Sergachev vs Drouin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 16 minutes ago, huzer said: Well, if his stats say top 20 D, do Drouin’s stats say top 20 C, since that’s what position he was sold as after the trade? Or heck, let’s ignore that and see if he’s top 20 at LW. The Habs still have glaring holes at D, and at C. In the long run, this trade has accomplished nothing for the Habs. Really though, this is somewhat of an odd post, as this is routinely a trade that is panned, and Timmins given high marks for drafting Sergachev. I think most people simply believe the Habs would be better off today with Sergachev vs Drouin. Yup, I would say that pretty much every poster on this board would like to turn back the clock on this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Sergachev always struck me as mistake-prone, but he would sure help our powerplay. I wouldn't call him a stud D yet, with Hedman and McDonagh and even Cernak doing a lot of the heavy lifting for that team. His flaws would be a lot less well-hidden if he stayed with the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 To be honest, when Instarted the post I thought Sergavhev’s stats would be less favorable I was surprised that David Savard is also a top 20 with low “HDSC” stats, ahead of Sergachev. would Sergachev suck if playing for the Habs instead of the Lightning? he produces about 30 points a season, but mostly from passes. Would he have as many points with the Habs? I honestly don’t know, and that is why I asked the question : is it a myth to think he would have done as well with the Habs compared on how Drouin has done. Honest question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I honestly don’t know, and that is why I asked the question : is it a myth to think he would have done as well with the Habs compared on how Drouin has done. Honest question I think there is little doubt Sergachev (although younger and young defencemen make mistakes) would have been far more valuable to the Habs. Keep in mind you are comparing a defenceman to a winger so it' s a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. Drouin has been a disappointment, I think most of us expected more production, a lot of talent that hasn't produced a lot of results. Sergachev is still young, perhaps not a stud yet but is headed in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Seen Sergachev ranked as 41st best d-man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: To be honest, when Instarted the post I thought Sergavhev’s stats would be less favorable I was surprised that David Savard is also a top 20 with low “HDSC” stats, ahead of Sergachev. would Sergachev suck if playing for the Habs instead of the Lightning? he produces about 30 points a season, but mostly from passes. Would he have as many points with the Habs? I honestly don’t know, and that is why I asked the question : is it a myth to think he would have done as well with the Habs compared on how Drouin has done. Honest question I think Sergechev probably would have struggled more with the habs -but that has more to do with our crap development process (or lack of one). With us he probably would have been out in a top pairing role like Mete was - whether he was ready or not. Dmen take time. Sergechev still can be a top pairing dman. Savard is barely still a bottom pairing dman. Drouin is NOT a legit top line player on a good team. Hopefully he becomes a better, or more consistent 2nd line winger with us - assuming we don’t continue with the experiment at centre with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 I’m not going to defend the trade. However, we now know that Drouin has struggled with mental health issues. He will improve, and he was leading the team in points when he was injured. The C experiment was due to injuries to other players. At this point I want to give him some time to find his game and seevehat he can do when he’s healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 58 minutes ago, tomh009 said: At this point I want to give him some time to find his game and seevehat he can do when he’s healthy. But we all would swap these 2 players, if given the option to have him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 7 hours ago, DON said: But we all would swap these 2 players, if given the option to have him back. right now, with Weber probably done and Savard in the top 4: YES Last season, YES most seasons since the trade YES (I think Drouin led the Habs in points one year?) the question I ask is if Sergachev is a stud, or a player in a great team that benefits from playing with Hedman and the like ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: the question I ask is if Sergachev is a stud, or a player in a great team that benefits from playing with Hedman and the like ? Why not, without Hedman/McDonagh he would have a bigger role, than 22+minutes/gm he plays. So, on other team (Habs) he might be top pairing and not simply be the 3rd best LH d-man on team, averaging 45pts/yr and he is just 23 still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 2 hours ago, DON said: Why not, without Hedman/McDonagh he would have a bigger role, than 22+minutes/gm he plays. So, on other team (Habs) he might be top pairing and not simply be the 3rd best LH d-man on team, averaging 45pts/yr and he is just 23 still. Exactly. Playing on a powerhouse cuts both ways. He would unquestionably be a top-pairing guy here - probably in the process of crowding out the floundering Petry as our #1 d-man. Trading a defenceman for a winger is generally not a great idea. C and D are premium positions. Even if Drouin finally solidifies as a reliable producer, the trade would still be a bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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