What should Gorton do?

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Trades take time ... GM search takes time ... rebuilding development program takes time ... developing a player support program takes time ... etc ... etc ... but ONE thing he can absolutely do immediately is to start to build a relationship with Jordan Harris (or his entourage anyway, if speaking directly to him would be problematic with the No Credibility Athletic Association ) to increase the odds he signs once his season is over.

 

I think Harris will sign for the following reasons;

 

1) He has always indicated that his intention was to sign with Montreal and Harris is a highly intelligent young man with excellent character, doesn't sound like the kind of person who changes their mind a lot. Below is from an article in La presse on Nov 16th

 

“It's a discussion we will have at the end of the season. I will talk about it with my parents, my advisers and the Canadian. But there is nothing to make me say that I do not want to play in Montreal. It would be a dream to play there. The organization has been fantastic with me and my family. So there is no hesitation related to the organization. "

 

2) Montreal is the only team where he could burn 1 year of his ELC and he did spend 4 years at college already so that is important (unless of course the Habs trade him to another team)

 

3) It looks like the Habs will be rebuilding and losing at least Chiarot for sure on defense, a spot could be available there for him. Harris, Guhle and Romanov could anchor the left hand side for years to come

 

4) He has had a good relationship with the Habs, especially Ramage. Perhaps Gorton being a fellow American could further cement that relationship.

 

I could be wrong, but I think he signs. 

 

 

[GHT120]

8 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

... I could be wrong, but I think he signs. 

I don't disagree ... if we can take what was said entirely at face value it cannot hurt to reinforce it with a strong relationship ... if there was anything ambiguous in what was said then NOW is the time to start to resolve the ambiguity.

[hab29RETIRED]

30 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I don't disagree ... if we can take what was said entirely at face value it cannot hurt to reinforce it with a strong relationship ... if there was anything ambiguous in what was said then NOW is the time to start to resolve the ambiguity.

Like Han Solo said many times … “I’ve got a bad feeling about this”

 

I hope not, but I can seeing him signing with a USA team, over team titanic.

[GHT120]

10 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Like Han Solo said many times … “I’ve got a bad feeling about this”

 

I hope not, but I can seeing him signing with a USA team, over team titanic.

As HFiE pointed out (his #2), signing with the Habs can bring harris a season closer to RFA and then UFA status by them burning a year of his ELC this season ... he can't sign with another team August.

[tomh009]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

but ONE thing he can absolutely do immediately is to start to build a relationship with Jordan Harris (or his entourage anyway, if speaking directly to him would be problematic with the No Credibility Athletic Association ) to increase the odds he signs once his season is over.

There has not apparently been any recent discussion between Bergevin and Harris's agent. But that doesn't mean he's being ignored by the Habs. Quoting the recent article from the Athletic:

Quote

Harris has remained in close contact with Canadiens director of player development Rob Ramage, who went to watch a recent game between Northeastern and Harvard, a game that included three Canadiens prospects (Jayden Struble of Northeastern and Harvard’s Sean Farrell being the others). A few days earlier, Canadiens assistant GM Scott Mellanby and assistant director of player development Francis Bouillon were in attendance when Northeastern took on the University of New Hampshire.

Mellanby's gone now, but Ramage and Buillon are still there, and Gorton even had kind words for them in his initial press conference. I do think they are keeping him close.

[GHT120]

31 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

There has not apparently been any recent discussion between Bergevin and Harris's agent. But that doesn't mean he's being ignored by the Habs. Quoting the recent article from the Athletic:

Mellanby's gone now, but Ramage and Buillon are still there, and Gorton even had kind words for them in his initial press conference. I do think they are keeping him close.

Wasn't trying to imply Harris was being ignored ... just that as the new "Big Guy" it can never hurt for Gorton to build his own relationship

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

4 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Wasn't trying to imply Harris was being ignored ... just that as the new "Big Guy" it can never hurt for Gorton to build his own relationship

 

Plus Gorton and Harris are both New England guys, that can't hurt the relationship. 

[alfredoh2009]

My $0.02 's worth:

Trade Hoffman, Petry, Chiarot, Wideman, Armia, Byron, Montembault for:

(in order of priority)

1. one NHL top-4 RD

2.one goalie prospect younger than Primeau (22)

3. as many high draft picks (Rounds 1 and 2) as possible in 2022 and 2023

 

I would keep both Gallagher's and Price's bad contracts, unless they want to get a chance to win a cup or another team makes an offer that can NOT be refused.

I would keep inconsistent players like Drouin, Dvorak, Lehkonen because they are good complementary players

 

Finally, I would develop from the D forward, focusing in mobile, physical defensemen: Edmundson-Savard would be my minute-eating pair until the new top-4 D is drafted/developed and ready to make the team a force to be reckon with.

 

With these changes done, I think that Gorton's plan to bulk-up the development staff and the analytics department will help the Habs take better advantage of an improved drafting team, a stronger Laval AHL team and the new ECHL affiliate.

 

I wish the Habs would have a LHJMQ affiliate, like the Moosehead or the Armada and that they would go full "academy" model for U18 player development; with late draft used for their academy-developed players to be later traded to other teams as a "late-bloomer" or "homerun" pick...

 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by alfredoh2009
re-edited, typos and missing words added

[PMAC]

23 hours ago, REV-G said:

If it were to be a female, I hope I've got the name correct, but didn't Kim St. Pierre just get voted into the hockey hall of fame or she won some award? Does anyone know if she has been involved in hockey upper management. 

 

I think the Leafs have a female on staff who is highly valued and getting experience and is held in fairly high regard.  

Danielle Goyette Director of player development for the Maple laughs would be a bold choice 

[Commandant]

7 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Can't disagree in principle. With Caufield, they never should have brought him up so soon after sending him down. It was sheer reactive GMing, i.e., desperation. Sending him back down now may further alienate the kid, but one thing is for sure, he's not learning very many positive lessons staying on a team of losers with poor work habits and an inept coaching staff.

 

Romanov, with his "what, me worry?" attitude, actually seems to be figuring things out despite DD.

 

Suzuki - I'm not sure you can argue he hasn't been "put in a position to succeed" (?). Hasn't he been given major minutes in juicy offensive situations? Evans and Poehling are bottom-6ers, so I'm not sure how they are being set up to fail either, really. Unless we mean that DD's systems are bad and therefore compounding the struggles that come with being on a crappy team. 

 

The thing that bothers me the most is that these Habs are not a particularly determined, resilient, or hard-working team. The youngsters are therefore all learning terrible lessons about how to be NHLers. There seems to be little accountability for veterans and non-core players get yanked in and out of the lineup seemingly without much rhyme or reason. Meanwhile you have external guys like Pacioretty spreading the message that players in Montreal have a "shelf life" while important veterans like Drouin and Price suffer from mental health disorders. Not only is that an environment in which young players are unlikely to become their best selves, but it's one which they probably will want to depart from their chance they get.   

 

 

 

Suzuki and Romanov may be doing well... but that doesnt mean Ducharme is doing well to develop the youngsters.

[Commandant]

8 hours ago, DON said:

Beside Wright, how do next 4 or 5 top prospects look, assuming Habs most likely pick in top 5?

 

Its a pretty strong draft.  More forward heavy than defence 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

50 minutes ago, PMAC said:

Danielle Goyette Director of player development for the Maple laughs would be a bold choice 

 

Really, too inexperienced. But it would be cool to see all the same.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

6 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I do not think any large corporation would take the risk of hiring a puppet GM or to hire an intern for an executive job, specially with so much scrutiny and visibility

 

Just because of that, I have to believe what Molson and Gorton are saying

 

and I sincerely believe that any person, binary/non-binary gender, with the right qualifications should be considered.

The more I listen to Gorton the more I agree with you that this is a genuine attempt to build both the team and management. 
 

Let’s go

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/canadiens-reported-to-have-interest-in-kent-hughes-as-gm

 

Per Friedman - Habs thinking of going the “Mike Gillis” route. Interesting.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

50 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/canadiens-reported-to-have-interest-in-kent-hughes-as-gm

 

Per Friedman - Habs thinking of going the “Mike Gillis” route. Interesting.

I imagine that a player agent would have strong negotiating skills and likely be a great communicator as well. 
 

I wonder if a hiring such as this would have an impact on what type of coach they would be looking at. I mean would they be open to a green, teachable coach or would they want a take control type coach that makes their own decisions? 
 

Im not advocating for Roy but is he the type of person that they would consider for coach? I realize his last coaching gig turned to crap but maybe Roy has learned and grown?

 

Are the Habs going to involve anyone from the glory days or is this a completely new direction?

[tomh009]

Émilie Castonguay would fit that description, too.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 minute ago, tomh009 said:

Émilie Castonguay would fit that description, too.

I wonder if a choice such as that would be viewed as pandering or progressive?

 

Either way I’m open to anyone 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

20 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I imagine that a player agent would have strong negotiating skills and likely be a great communicator as well. 
 

I wonder if a hiring such as this would have an impact on what type of coach they would be looking at. I mean would they be open to a green, teachable coach or would they want a take control type coach that makes their own decisions? 
 

Im not advocating for Roy but is he the type of person that they would consider for coach? I realize his last coaching gig turned to crap but maybe Roy has learned and grown?

 

Are the Habs going to involve anyone from the glory days or is this a completely new direction?

 

Roy as a player is one of my all-time heroes, the last of the great champion Habs. But as a coach/GM he can f**k right off.  An egomaniac who can’t work well with others and will swiftly turn the Habs into a Harold Ballard-like gong show. I am also not too keen on having someone who was charged with domestic violence running the organization, frankly. If it was such a grave sin to draft Mailloux, who is just a kid, why is it a grand idea to give a domestic abuser the keys to the kingdom?

 

While the coach and GM positions are obviously related, in that the latter chooses the former, I don’t think there is much of a connection beyond that. You try to get the best coach for the group you have. If we’re entering a rebuild, then the main consideration should be to get a guy who excels with young players. NHL experience is always a good thing, so if that guy is a proven NHL coach, so much the better; but it’s not everything. 

 

Since the rebuild will likely be such that the Habs won’t contend for 5-6 years (if they ever do), we should also recognize that the new coach will be out the door by the time the team is at that stage. Probably we will need to switch from a “teaching coach” to a “win now” coach somewhere along the way - probably after a disappointing playoff exit or two.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/canadiens-reported-to-have-interest-in-kent-hughes-as-gm

 

Per Friedman - Habs thinking of going the “Mike Gillis” route. Interesting.

 

 

I guess hiring an agent might be OK but that agent also needs to be a good judge of hockey talent which is far more important than being able to negotiate contracts. 

[GHT120]

5 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I guess hiring an agent might be OK but that agent also needs to be a good judge of hockey talent which is far more important than being able to negotiate contracts. 

 

I see the biggest "pro" to hiring an agent is that they would have a vast network of connections throughout the hockey world ... perhaps even broader and more diverse than a former player.

 

A GM must be a good judge of hockey talent but these days it is also important to surround themselves with others as good or better AND have the ability to hear their opinions, and sometimes change thrown opinion as a result of what they hear.

[BCHabnut]

7 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

I see the biggest "pro" to hiring an agent is that they would have a vast network of connections throughout the hockey world ... perhaps even broader and more diverse than a former player.

 

A GM must be a good judge of hockey talent but these days it is also important to surround themselves with others as good or better AND have the ability to hear their opinions, and sometimes change thrown opinion as a result of what they hear.

Honestly, I feel like a gm in 2020 just needs to be an effective manager with a strong understanding of how a hockey organization works and good interpersonal skills to work with other gms.  There are specialists for so many specific facets of the game today. A good gm needs to be able to ensure he is surrounded by the right people.   Gorton can do a lot of that. I don't actually care who the gm is. Gorton gonna run this ship I reckon.

[GHT120]

18 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Honestly, I feel like a gm in 2020 just needs to be an effective manager with a strong understanding of how a hockey organization works and good interpersonal skills to work with other gms.  There are specialists for so many specific facets of the game today. A good gm needs to be able to ensure he is surrounded by the right people.   Gorton can do a lot of that. I don't actually care who the gm is. Gorton gonna run this ship I reckon.

I agree ... but the GM needs the skills for Gorton to mentor and mould so that they can become the "new Gorton", Ala Drury with the NYR.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

8 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Roy as a player is one of my all-time heroes, the last of the great champion Habs. But as a coach/GM he can f**k right off.  An egomaniac who can’t work well with others and will swiftly turn the Habs into a Harold Ballard-like gong show. I am also not too keen on having someone who was charged with domestic violence running the organization, frankly. If it was such a grave sin to draft Mailloux, who is just a kid, why is it a grand idea to give a domestic abuser the keys to the kingdom?

 

While the coach and GM positions are obviously related, in that the latter chooses the former, I don’t think there is much of a connection beyond that. You try to get the best coach for the group you have. If we’re entering a rebuild, then the main consideration should be to get a guy who excels with young players. NHL experience is always a good thing, so if that guy is a proven NHL coach, so much the better; but it’s not everything. 

 

Since the rebuild will likely be such that the Habs won’t contend for 5-6 years (if they ever do), we should also recognize that the new coach will be out the door by the time the team is at that stage. Probably we will need to switch from a “teaching coach” to a “win now” coach somewhere along the way - probably after a disappointing playoff exit or two.

 

I tend to feel the same way about Patrick. Loved the player, loved the player and part of me would love to see him behind the bench (definitely not GM) because I love his passion for the game but the logical part of me thinks there is a better way to go. 

 

For a rebuild I am a little more optimistic. I think in 3-5 years they can be a force if they do things right.  They have to get the next draft right (or maybe Wright).  I believe in drafting the best player available and hopefully when they draft next summer the best player available is a center or right hand defenseman. 

[Habsfan89]

You don't bring in Roy now as GM after you hired Gorton to run things as VP. If you were to bring in Roy I would of did it as VP let him run the whole thing.  But with Gorton heading everything I would bring in someone who understands today's game and understands analytics.  Don't think Roy knows what analytics is 😹he's an  old school mind.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

4 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

You don't bring in Roy now as GM after you hired Gorton to run things as VP. If you were to bring in Roy I would of did it as VP let him run the whole thing.  But with Gorton heading everything I would bring in someone who understands today's game and understands analytics.  Don't think Roy knows what analytics is 😹he's an  old school mind.

 

Agree, I would be shocked if Gorton hired him as GM, Gorton is looking for someone to compliment him and has strengths he doesn't which is not Patrick.