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What should Gorton do?


What’s Gorton going to do?  

15 members have voted

  1. 1. What kind of GM are we getting?

    • Roy
      0
    • Darche or Madden JR
      9
    • An ex player with 0 experience
      4
    • An experienced GM
      2
  2. 2. Complete rebuild or a short re-tool?

    • Rebuild
      11
    • Re-tool
      4
  3. 3. What to do with Ducharme?

    • Fire now
      2
    • Keep him to complete the tank and fire at end of season
      5
    • Possibly keep him if the new GM likes him
      8


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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Hopefully we win the lottery this year, but It’s too bad we will probably lose next years pick because of the idiotic Dvorak trade. 1st and and a 2nd for a 3rd line centre🙄

 

We can't lose next year's pick. We give up a 1st this year (pick depends on where Habs finish, likely Carolina's pick now) and a 2nd in 2024.  They will not lose any picks next year. 

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38 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

We can't lose next year's pick. We give up a 1st this year (pick depends on where Habs finish, likely Carolina's pick now) and a 2nd in 2024.  They will not lose any picks next year. 

Wasn’t there some sort of restriction on the pick?  I know it has to be the lower of the two, and a lottery was excluded, but I thought there was some other stipulation on how low the canes pick was, otherwise next years pick came into play?

 

if not, than that’s great.

 

still too much to give up for a 3rd line centre.

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3 hours ago, Neech said:

It'll be tough to do a full rebuild with all the big long term contracts

 

This is pretty much what I'm hoping for.  It'll be tough to move off of our big contracts - how much salary will we have to retain to move Price or Gallagher? Anderson has crazy term, and Drouin, Toffoli and Hoffman aren't looking very alluring right now. If we're able to get valuable assets back rather than just salary relief is key to accelerating our way back to contention, otherwise it'll be more like 5-6 years rather than 3 before we're contending again.

 

Some of the guys may be better to keep, if the target is 3-4 years. Drouin will be much easier to move at deadline next year -- unless Gorton decides to keep him. He's 26 so not too old for a moderate rebuild. Dvorak, Lehkonen, Evans are in the same age range, and may end up staying unless they turn out to have high trade value.

 

But Toffoli and Gallagher at 29 and Hoffman at 32 are surely going to be on the block.  Petry (33) and Savard (31) likely the same, and Chiarot (31) is a pending UFA. Edmundson is 28 so maybe could stay as the senior member of the D corps?

 

Then you have Anderson (27) on a big contract, and Armia (28) on a less crazy one.

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4 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Gorton will not be judged by how well he learns French,  he will be judged in the win/loss column understanding that there may be some pain before that happens

That's correct. But I still respect him for making the commitment to learn some French. Francophone fans are fans, too.

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18 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

... and Armia (28) on a less crazy one.

 

Less expensive but still pretty crazy for a 4th liner, maybe borderline 3rd liner, on a legit playoff team.

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Wasn’t there some sort of restriction on the pick?  I know it has to be the lower of the two, and a lottery was excluded, but I thought there was some other stipulation on how low the canes pick was, otherwise next years pick came into play?

 

 

Next year's pick does not come into play.  Arizona get's the better of the 2 picks this year, unless one of them is bottom 10 after the lottery then the Habs retain the better of the picks if one of them is bottom 10. Does not revert to next year if that happens. 

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4 hours ago, Commandant said:

With the way Ducharme is handling Caufield and other kids he needs to be fired yesterday.  You gotta develop kids in a rebuild and playing him on the fourth line is stupid.

Gorton appears to understand player development so it’s possible that Ducharme will be receiving some new directions in that regard.

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6 hours ago, Commandant said:

With the way Ducharme is handling Caufield and other kids he needs to be fired yesterday.  You gotta develop kids in a rebuild and playing him on the fourth line is stupid.


I hope they send him back down for the season. Unless we empty the team via trades. 
 

Ducharme’s hockey decisions are absolutely absurd. The Dmen pairings are nonsense and using a Caufield on the 4th line in a limited role is insane. 
 

The only reason that I want Ducharme to stay for the season is that he is so awful that we are lottery bound for sure. 
 

 

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2 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Gorton appears to understand player development so it’s possible that Ducharme will be receiving some new directions in that regard.


Gorton did say that Ducharme is safe for the year but who knows what the new GM will think. 
 

I think the team will feel very different next season 

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57 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


I hope they send him back down for the season. Unless we empty the team via trades. 
 

Ducharme’s hockey decisions are absolutely absurd. The Dmen pairings are nonsense and using a Caufield on the 4th line in a limited role is insane. 
 

The only reason that I want Ducharme to stay for the season is that he is so awful that we are lottery bound for sure. 
 

 

 

Im fine with tanking for a shot at shane wright.  But its just a shot at him, its no guarantee.

 

If that means toffoli or hoffman or gallagher plays a little less than normal thats fine.

 

But you cant jeopardize caufield, suzuki, romanov, norlinder, poehling, evans.  They need to be put in positions to succeed and develop and ducharme is hit and miss with this.

 

Look the season is done as far as playoffs go.  This needs to be all development.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Im fine with tanking for a shot at shane wright.  But its just a shot at him, its no guarantee.

 

If that means toffoli or hoffman or gallagher plays a little less than normal thats fine.

 

But you cant jeopardize caufield, suzuki, romanov, norlinder, poehling, evans.  They need to be put in positions to succeed and develop and ducharme is hit and miss with this.

 

Look the season is done as far as playoffs go.  This needs to be all development.

 

Can't disagree in principle. With Caufield, they never should have brought him up so soon after sending him down. It was sheer reactive GMing, i.e., desperation. Sending him back down now may further alienate the kid, but one thing is for sure, he's not learning very many positive lessons staying on a team of losers with poor work habits and an inept coaching staff.

 

Romanov, with his "what, me worry?" attitude, actually seems to be figuring things out despite DD.

 

Suzuki - I'm not sure you can argue he hasn't been "put in a position to succeed" (?). Hasn't he been given major minutes in juicy offensive situations? Evans and Poehling are bottom-6ers, so I'm not sure how they are being set up to fail either, really. Unless we mean that DD's systems are bad and therefore compounding the struggles that come with being on a crappy team. 

 

The thing that bothers me the most is that these Habs are not a particularly determined, resilient, or hard-working team. The youngsters are therefore all learning terrible lessons about how to be NHLers. There seems to be little accountability for veterans and non-core players get yanked in and out of the lineup seemingly without much rhyme or reason. Meanwhile you have external guys like Pacioretty spreading the message that players in Montreal have a "shelf life" while important veterans like Drouin and Price suffer from mental health disorders. Not only is that an environment in which young players are unlikely to become their best selves, but it's one which they probably will want to depart from their chance they get.   

 

 

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12 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Some of the guys may be better to keep, if the target is 3-4 years. Drouin will be much easier to move at deadline next year -- unless Gorton decides to keep him. He's 26 so not too old for a moderate rebuild. Dvorak, Lehkonen, Evans are in the same age range, and may end up staying unless they turn out to have high trade value.

 

But Toffoli and Gallagher at 29 and Hoffman at 32 are surely going to be on the block.  Petry (33) and Savard (31) likely the same, and Chiarot (31) is a pending UFA. Edmundson is 28 so maybe could stay as the senior member of the D corps?

 

Then you have Anderson (27) on a big contract, and Armia (28) on a less crazy one.

 

I like the idea of keeping Edmundson as a stabilizing veteran presence. In fact I agree with pretty much all of your selections above.

 

I don't know how long the rebuild will take. We have zero elite talent in the system; Guhle and Caufield seem to be the best of the bunch. So if we want to talk about building an actual contender, a lot of it will come from picks prospects acquired over the next 2-3 years. Therefore a target of 5-6 years out is arguably more realistic. Look to contend, in other words, when Suzuki is at his peak as a 27-28 year-old.  

 

That is what I want to see: an unrelenting focus on building an elite team. For once.

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12 hours ago, tomh009 said:

That's basically what we got for our 3rd line centre.

There’s a difference in paying extra for a younger player you are hoping will progress higher on thr depth chart, and grossly overpaying for a guy is clearly a 3rd liner.

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11 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Next year's pick does not come into play.  Arizona get's the better of the 2 picks this year, unless one of them is bottom 10 after the lottery then the Habs retain the better of the picks if one of them is bottom 10. Does not revert to next year if that happens. 

Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I thought I had read that if this year there was a lottery pick, next years pick would be in play.

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Some good points made throughout this thread, so just gonna add my unsolicited two cents.

short term: perhaps wise to play Armia in top 6 with special teams in hopes to bolster his stats, increase his value for trade deadline. Can see a team taking his contract on, over paying so to speak for a playoff run.  Same idea for Toff, Hoff, Drouin, Gally, but they get these minutes usually anyways. Showcase them for trade purposes. Obv have to play the kids too, so balance will be the key.

 

Otherwise, of the big contracts I think Anderson could be part of the future (he seems to bring a decent effort level/leadership to the table) and think we need to give Dvorak more time to settle in/grow before writing him off.  He (like Anderson) are just young enough to hold onto.  They stick around with Suzuki, Evans, Poehling, Caufield. That’s potentially four decent centres, a sniper winger, a power forward to build around.

Depending on how the next draft/two drafts go, may not need all of these even.

 

Back end: I like the Edmundson and the precious mention of holding onto him.

Eddy, Romy, Guhle, Norlinder are not a bad four to build around next in the next two seasons.

Move out Petry, Chiarot, Savard as possible.  Obv Chiarot appears to be gone this year, think someone will take a shot at Petry too if he even begins to rebound.

Perhaps injures or Covid will force a contender to seek out a “safe” stay at home dman for playoff run and Savard gets out too.

 

With a stud pick this coming year, a few deft moves and many major moves over this and next season (to unload all of those vets) there is a possibility of a good team with strong mix of youth and experience that could begin to compete in three years.


With all of the picks and some easily moveable assets (some hard ones too) the team may not be in as tough of a spot as I personally thought.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

There’s a difference in paying extra for a younger player you are hoping will progress higher on thr depth chart, and grossly overpaying for a guy is clearly a 3rd liner.


While it has been disappointing so far, think we need to give more time to fully assess his value on the team.    You’re right that at the moment he’s a third liner and not even a good one at that.   A good half-season this year could change our mind given the small history we have and his years on the dessert being x files.

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26 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:


While it has been disappointing so far, think we need to give more time to fully assess his value on the team.    You’re right that at the moment he’s a third liner and not even a good one at that.   A good half-season this year could change our mind given the small history we have and his years on the dessert being x files.

 

I agree, hard to judge Dvorak because of the mess the Habs are in right now, no one is standing out.  

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Can't disagree in principle. With Caufield, they never should have brought him up so soon after sending him down. It was sheer reactive GMing, i.e., desperation. Sending him back down now may further alienate the kid, but one thing is for sure, he's not learning very many positive lessons staying on a team of losers with poor work habits and an inept coaching staff.

 

Romanov, with his "what, me worry?" attitude, actually seems to be figuring things out despite DD.

 

Suzuki - I'm not sure you can argue he hasn't been "put in a position to succeed" (?). Hasn't he been given major minutes in juicy offensive situations? Evans and Poehling are bottom-6ers, so I'm not sure how they are being set up to fail either, really. Unless we mean that DD's systems are bad and therefore compounding the struggles that come with being on a crappy team. 

 

The thing that bothers me the most is that these Habs are not a particularly determined, resilient, or hard-working team. The youngsters are therefore all learning terrible lessons about how to be NHLers. There seems to be little accountability for veterans and non-core players get yanked in and out of the lineup seemingly without much rhyme or reason. Meanwhile you have external guys like Pacioretty spreading the message that players in Montreal have a "shelf life" while important veterans like Drouin and Price suffer from mental health disorders. Not only is that an environment in which young players are unlikely to become their best selves, but it's one which they probably will want to depart from their chance they get.   

 

 


DD put together a line of Lehkonen, Evans, Gallagher and they clicked and played great for two games. Ducharme then separates the line for some reason. 
 

Ducharme does this to Suzuki, Poehling, Evans, Norlinder et al. 
 

Ducharme thinks things very differently than anything I’ve have ever seen and our record might be an indication that it isn’t working-injuries notwithstanding. 

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53 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:

Some good points made throughout this thread, so just gonna add my unsolicited two cents.

short term: perhaps wise to play Armia in top 6 with special teams in hopes to bolster his stats, increase his value for trade deadline. Can see a team taking his contract on, over paying so to speak for a playoff run.  Same idea for Toff, Hoff, Drouin, Gally, but they get these minutes usually anyways. Showcase them for trade purposes. Obv have to play the kids too, so balance will be the key.

 

Otherwise, of the big contracts I think Anderson could be part of the future (he seems to bring a decent effort level/leadership to the table) and think we need to give Dvorak more time to settle in/grow before writing him off.  He (like Anderson) are just young enough to hold onto.  They stick around with Suzuki, Evans, Poehling, Caufield. That’s potentially four decent centres, a sniper winger, a power forward to build around.

Depending on how the next draft/two drafts go, may not need all of these even.

 

Back end: I like the Edmundson and the precious mention of holding onto him.

Eddy, Romy, Guhle, Norlinder are not a bad four to build around next in the next two seasons.

Move out Petry, Chiarot, Savard as possible.  Obv Chiarot appears to be gone this year, think someone will take a shot at Petry too if he even begins to rebound.

Perhaps injures or Covid will force a contender to seek out a “safe” stay at home dman for playoff run and Savard gets out too.

 

With a stud pick this coming year, a few deft moves and many major moves over this and next season (to unload all of those vets) there is a possibility of a good team with strong mix of youth and experience that could begin to compete in three years.


With all of the picks and some easily moveable assets (some hard ones too) the team may not be in as tough of a spot as I personally thought.

 

 


I have to say that Edmundson has really blown me away. He is a good player and an amazing teammate. 
 

I would be happy to keep him. 
 

Bergevin was in the process of turning Weber into a scout or something I think. I wonder if it might be best to end that. Let Weber LTIR retire and move on. 

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16 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

... Harris is a leader (he better sign) ...

 

Trades take time ... GM search takes time ... rebuilding development program takes time ... developing a player support program takes time ... etc ... etc ... but ONE thing he can absolutely do immediately is to start to build a relationship with Jordan Harris (or his entourage anyway, if speaking directly to him would be problematic with the No Credibility Athletic Association ) to increase the odds he signs once his season is over.

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18 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


Maybe someone with some good tools that Gorton can sharpen? 
 

Is this a puppet GM to placate the French media or is this an intern?

I do not think any large corporation would take the risk of hiring a puppet GM or to hire an intern for an executive job, specially with so much scrutiny and visibility

 

Just because of that, I have to believe what Molson and Gorton are saying

 

and I sincerely believe that any person, binary/non-binary gender, with the right qualifications should be considered.

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