What would you do if you were the GM?

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

What about the leafs trading for Foligno given the cost.

 

We got Danault and a 2nd rounder for weise and Flieschman - I think a 2nd rounder in itself was too much for those two!

 

 

 

but that was with the old GM, Mark "get a dog" Bergevin

 

 there is no guarantee Hugh-Gort can pull those trades off

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

What about the leafs trading for Foligno given the cost.

 

We got Danault and a 2nd rounder for weise and Flieschman - I think a 2nd rounder in itself was too much for those two!

 

 

 

Those are good examples of teams over paying. We just need to hope that teams are willing to over pay this year although teams that have been burned in the past might be a little more careful. 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

but that was with the old GM, Mark "get a dog" Bergevin

 

 there is no guarantee Hugh-Gort can pull those trades off

Hey I liked some of the trades and signings he made - I just didn’t like his overall body of work, which included his choice in coaches at the NHL or AHL for the majority of his tenure, hatd list of his signings, how the defence was let to fit after Markov, and drafting and development was horrible. 

 

[dlbalr]

4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

What about the leafs trading for Foligno given the cost.

 

We got Danault and a 2nd rounder for weise and Flieschman - I think a 2nd rounder in itself was too much for those two!

 

There was a cap factor to that Foligno trade as well that played a role in them having to pay what they did but I don't think many were calling that a massive overpayment.  Foligno, in theory, made a lot of sense for them.  He then got injured after.  That can't be held against them in terms of their decision to make the trade.  I'd also suggest that his value then is higher than Lehkonen's is now. 

 

As for the Danault trade, that was six years ago and involved two GMs who are no longer in that capacity in the league.  It doesn't have any sort of bearing on the current state of the market, nor does it factor in the significantly different salary cap environment that exists now compared to back then.

 

You can hand-pick a couple more if you want but the general point still stands.  Those trades, when compared to the context and volume of deadline deals over the years, are outliers, not a sign of the potential for a big bidding war.  No one's saying 'hey, we're going to have to trade a young first-round centre for a bottom-six winger because Stan Bowman traded one for Fleischmann and Weise six years ago'. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

We shouldn’t forget, either, that MB was a master at the trade table. Except for the Drouin trade, which is like a horrible fart in the middle of the symphony of his trading record.

 

Anyway, yeah - while occasional howlers occur at the deadline, it can’t be an *expectation* that you’re going to get ridiculously high return on an asset. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

34 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Anyway, yeah - while occasional howlers occur at the deadline, it can’t be an *expectation* that you’re going to get ridiculously high return on an asset. 

 

That is true, it is more of a "hope" than an "expectation", every year is different. I think there are many teams where expectations/pressure is high to win pretty soon (ie. Toronto, Colorado, Florida). Then there are teams like Vegas/Edmonton who may not even make the playoffs unless they make a move. There are also teams like Boston/Pittsburgh whose window is winding down as their star players (Crosby, Malkin, Marchand, Bergeron) have reached their twilight years.  Lots of teams that could overpay.   

[BCHabnut]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:54 PM, tomh009 said:

The point is that if you have a decent player (say, Lehkonen) who can add value in the future, a late first is very unlikely to give you a better player.

 

I found the probability charts on the Dobber Prospects site. They analyzed 10 years of drafts for all teams, and a late pick has only a 50% chance of playing just 100 NHL games. You might get a bottom-six forward, or you might get nothing at all with that pick. A second-rounder has only a 35% chance of playing that full season; 65% of the picks will never be NHL regulars.

 

A prospect will improve that percentage as you can assess their post-draft performance.

 

So, would I trade a young high-quality two-way 3RW for a second-round pick? I would not, if I can negotiate a reasonable contract with him. (Of course I don't know what Hughes and Gorton would do.)

 

https://dobberprospects.com/2020/05/16/nhl-draft-pick-probabilities/

This is my thinking as well. So we have to trade young, fast, fierce checking,  intelligent, durable lehkonen for low picks, because we have to keep injury prone Byron and less durable, inconsistent, Armia, who are both on bad contracts. I'm not a fan of teading Lehkonen unless management believes his annual cap hit will be in the 4 million range. 

[GHT120]

20 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

This is my thinking as well. So we have to trade young, fast, fierce checking,  intelligent, durable lehkonen for low picks, because we have to keep injury prone Byron and less durable, inconsistent, Armia, who are both on bad contracts. I'm not a fan of teading Lehkonen unless management believes his annual cap hit will be in the 4 million range. 

The "talk" seems to be $4.25-4.5 ... Merci Marc for Byron and Armia

[alfredoh2009]

Pezzetta has won Paquette's roster spot. Good for the kid, who would have thought at the beginning of the season !?

 

Congratilations to the kid!!!

Paquette clears

— Elliotte Friedman (@FriedgeHNIC) March 13, 2022

 

[huzer]

Well, if I were the GM, I'd waive Perreault and send Primeau back from his emergency loan. Allen in tomorrow against the Stars.

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

If Hugh-Gort is done trading this trade deadline, I am fine with it.

 

But at least one of the following pending RFAs/UFAs may still be dealt:

   * Lehkonen (I would resign)

   * Kulak (I would resign)

   * Wideman (I would keep, even if lost in free agency)

 

Out of the roster players with term, I would try to trade for a prospect or a high picks in 2023:

   * Hoffman (I like hi but too old)

   * Armia (Cap room better spent elsewhere)

   * Allen (Habs may get more valuable for him this season than next)

 

[alfredoh2009]

Follow-up to my post, where I wrote I would trade Kulak. I am glad he is benefiting from the "fresh eyes" look before a decision is made. He plays well with Petry and can be a reasonably cheap #4 D.

 

#Habs Kulak says he feels like he’s benefitting from “fresh eyes” in the organization. Under previous coaches and management, if he went on a good stretch and then had a bad game, he believed the set perception, “Oh, there’s that player,” would come out.

— John Lu (@JohnLuTSNMtl) March 17, 2022

 

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Follow-up to my post, where I wrote I would trade Kulak. I am glad he is benefiting from the "fresh eyes" look before a decision is made. He plays well with Petry and can be a reasonably cheap #4 D.

 

 

 

I agree it is good that he is having the opportunity to play "loose", not be worried about every little(or big) mistake, and show his best self ... but I too would trade him ... Hughes did say he liked him but only said he is not calling teams to try to trade Kulak, but it someone blows him away with an offer he would be open to a deal ... which is what a GM has to say to maximize player value (whatever value that may be) ... but he is honest enough to say they will trade Petry if a deal can be worked out because it is an "open secret" Jeff wants out ... clearly his enjoying playing under MSL has not changed that ... OR ... Hughes just doesn't want a player who seemed to quit on his coach and teammates.  

[tomh009]

If they extend Kulak for another year or two at a friendly price, that might be fine until we are ready to transform into a contender.

[GHT120]

4 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

If they extend Kulak for another year or two at a friendly price, that might be fine until we are ready to transform into a contender.

Conceptually I get it ... but he is a LD ... that is the position at which the Habs have multiple prospects who should be challenging for positions the next two years ... I think he has played the odd game as a RD but not certain he would be helpful in the role on a regular basis.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

I have said this before but every time I hear Hughes speak, I am impressed.  Calm, intelligent, articulate, seems to have very good judgement, all the qualities you need in a good GM. 

[alfredoh2009]

with the trade deadline out of the way, here is what I would do as a GM.

 

1. Evaluate Drouing vs Hoffman to trade one during the draft of later this summer

2. See how much St-Louis can do with Gallagher and evaluate options (I would keep him)

3. Decide on whom they re-sign from the pending RFAs/UFAs: Lagesson, Schueneman, Wideman, Clague, Niku, Montembeault, T. Pitlick, R.Pitlick, Dauphin, Pezzetta, Ylonen, and whoever is in the AHL

 

The forwards would look like:

Anderson-Suzuki-Caufield

Drouin/Hoffman-Dvorak-Gallagher

R.Pitlick(RFA)-Evans-Armia

Dauphin-Poehling-Ylonen(RFA)

Byron

 

The new D would look like:

Edmundson-Pery

Romanov(RFA)-Savard

Schueneman(RFA)-Barron

Clague, Wideman

 

with  Guhle, Norlinder, Harris, Struble knocking on the door

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

with the trade deadline out of the way, here is what I would do as a GM.

 

1. Evaluate Drouing vs Hoffman to trade one during the draft of later this summer

2. See how much St-Louis can do with Gallagher and evaluate options (I would keep him)

3. Decide on whom they re-sign from the pending RFAs/UFAs: Lagesson, Schueneman, Wideman, Clague, Niku, Montembeault, T. Pitlick, R.Pitlick, Dauphin, Pezzetta, Ylonen, and whoever is in the AHL

 

The forwards would look like:

Anderson-Suzuki-Caufield

Drouin/Hoffman-Dvorak-Gallagher

R.Pitlick(RFA)-Evans-Armia

Dauphin-Poehling-Ylonen(RFA)

Byron

 

The new D would look like:

Edmundson-Pery

Romanov(RFA)-Savard

Schueneman(RFA)-Barron

Clague, Wideman

 

with  Guhle, Norlinder, Harris, Struble knocking on the door

 

Petry will be gone. I wouldn’t be shocked if they sign a UFA D-man, to be honest, because that D looks like a tire-fire even with Petry. Also, are we rushing Barron on this scenario?

 

Neither Drouin nor Hoffman will bring much on the trade market, but I agree they’ll need to move one out. Makes a lot more sense to keep Drouin. Shorter contractual commitment and a younger player. 

 

I want them to move the millstone of Gallagher’s contract, but doubt it will happen.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

41 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Petry will be gone. I wouldn’t be shocked if they sign a UFA D-man, to be honest, because that D looks like a tire-fire even with Petry. Also, are we rushing Barron on this scenario?

 

Neither Drouin nor Hoffman will bring much on the trade market, but I agree they’ll need to move one out. Makes a lot more sense to keep Drouin. Shorter contractual commitment and a younger player. 

 

I want them to move the millstone of Gallagher’s contract, but doubt it will happen.

 

I expect Hughes will be patient and will look for the right opportunity to move guys like Hoffman/Drouin. I think Gallagher needs a bounce back year before there is any chance of moving him. I think he is here for a while. 

 

The important thing now is drafting/development. It is a big draft year coming up and they need to get it  right/wright. I don't think they will rush Barron but they will obviously want to have a look. He has had a pretty good 1st year in the AHL. 

 

It's exciting to me to see how Suzuki/Caulfield have responded. I have no doubt they will  be/are  studs and are the main building blocks up front. If we can get another stud forward in the draft to eventually anchor another line then I think we are well on our way to some exciting times. 

 

 

[DON]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 Also, are we rushing Barron on this scenario?

He has 50 AHL/2 NHL games under his belt, so dont think really rushing and he likely will also be part of Laval's playoff 'run' we hope.

But, is no hurry obviously. 

[alfredoh2009]

I agree with the points made in this article:

http://www.habsworld.net/2022/04/the-jury-is-still-out-on-habs-management-after-deadline-deals/
 

I’ll put the link here instead of the “Fire HughGort” tread since we do not know yet if the great new hope duo are Pollock-like or Houle-Like

[Commandant]

I disagree with the premise that Wideman and Tyler Pitlick had any value.  Sure getting a 7th for one or both would be great but if no one was giving it up, what can you do.  I think we will see in summer that neither get 1-way NHL deals next year

 

I also am not sure what the market was for Allen, who played all of 2 games back from his injury before the deadline, and is under contract for next year so there is no reason to believe the best offer we could get for him was coming off the injury instead of during summer.

 

Its fine to want to see more than one deadline.  I agree with that.

 

But the idea that the deadline was anything less than a major success because they didnt move those 3 is just not something I can agree with.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

37 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I disagree with the premise that Wideman and Tyler Pitlick had any value.  Sure getting a 7th for one or both would be great but if no one was giving it up, what can you do.  I think we will see in summer that neither get 1-way NHL deals next year

 

I also am not sure what the market was for Allen, who played all of 2 games back from his injury before the deadline, and is under contract for next year so there is no reason to believe the best offer we could get for him was coming off the injury instead of during summer.

 

Its fine to want to see more than one deadline.  I agree with that.

 

But the idea that the deadline was anything less than a major success because they didnt move those 3 is just not something I can agree with.

 

Agreed, I read the article and wasn't overly impressed with it. Sometimes writers get a little bored and need something to write about and get more coverage taking an alternative point of view. In my view Hugo did a great job at the deadline, of course the actual results won't show up for a couple years so you can't properly grade them yet. 

 

Moving the difficult contracts just wasn't going to happen then. There is more work to do in the summer, I agree with that part. 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

I disagree with the premise that Wideman and Tyler Pitlick had any value.  Sure getting a 7th for one or both would be great but if no one was giving it up, what can you do.  I think we will see in summer that neither get 1-way NHL deals next year

 

I also am not sure what the market was for Allen, who played all of 2 games back from his injury before the deadline, and is under contract for next year so there is no reason to believe the best offer we could get for him was coming off the injury instead of during summer.

 

Its fine to want to see more than one deadline.  I agree with that.

 

But the idea that the deadline was anything less than a major success because they didnt move those 3 is just not something I can agree with.

Totally agree. HuGo did well. When you look at what Seattle got for Giordano (I think Francis really screwed the pooch on that deal, just like he did for most the season), I think it’s hard not to be happy with how HuGo did. I wish we got more for Taffoli, and who kkowns, we may have moved him too soon, but it would have sucked if we’d have to settle for a 2nd and prospect closer to the deadline.

 

and yeah, no one was going to offer anything for Wideman. Hell, our D sucks and we shouldn’t even be playing him. The timing of Allen’s injury made him hard to move. It’s still not too late. who knows, they may decide to move him at the draft if he finishes strong and they get a good offer.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Agreed, I read the article and wasn't overly impressed with it. Sometimes writers get a little bored and need something to write about and get more coverage taking an alternative point of view. In my view Hugo did a great job at the deadline, of course the actual results won't show up for a couple years so you can't properly grade them yet. 

 

Moving the difficult contracts just wasn't going to happen then. There is more work to do in the summer, I agree with that part. 

Yeah, it was a pretty nonsensical article considering that he cited the fact that Taffoli was a guy with multiple years left was moved, as a reason why Drouin, Armia, and Savard should also have had a market. He totally ignored the fact that Taffoli was signed to a very reasonable cap hit for what he brings (by far MB’s best recent signings along with Allen), while the others are overpaid given their performance and/or injury issues.