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What would you do if you were the GM?


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42 minutes ago, Commandant said:

We are at the start of a rebuild, you don't trade Romanov and Caufield ...

In fairness, he did say "... I will play Devils advocate and say it's not going to be a rebuild ..."  ...  don't think he was advocating against a rebuild or predicting it would be "a right off year from hell" and back to chasing the playoffs next season

 

 

42 minutes ago, Commandant said:

... even in a win now, Romanov is NHL ready

 

And caufield needs some AHL time but considering what he did last year in the playoffs, he's not that far away. 

 

It's a 32 team league.... I want to build a team that has a window to try and win for 5 or more years... not give away these youngsters to go all in to win now, when our team isn't even all that great.  Its mortgaging the future for rolling the dice on 2022-23.  Nothing aobut this team suggests the 2021 miracle run is repeatable (especially without Weber and Danault and your trades suggest that Chiarot, Petry, and others who would be part of any win now team would also be gone.

 

100% agree ... I am tired of the "spit and baling wire", year-by-year, let's TRY to make the playoffs and see what happens approach of the last several decades.

 

 

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

In fairness, he did say "... I will play Devils advocate and say it's not going to be a rebuild ..."  ...  don't think he was advocating against a rebuild or predicting it would be "a right off year from hell" and back to chasing the playoffs next season

 

 

 

100% agree ... I am tired of the "spit and baling wire", year-by-year, let's TRY to make the playoffs and see what happens approach of the last several decades.

 

 

Thank you at least you read the post and point I was coming across which is why I gave your post a love. These guys don't read the whole post and try and make an opinion about the whole point of view. They just saw trade caufield and Romanov and flipped out. 

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3 hours ago, tomh009 said:

But maybe no one will use that measuring stick any more now that Bergevin is gone ... 🙄

 

that last sentence about "measuring stick"... that is what's bothering me more than anything else. You hit on something that has been in my mind for a while: as a Canadiens fan, how am I going to evaluate the new management's moves; what am I looking for.

 

what comes to mind is:

 

1. I expect Gorton & Hughes ("the Gort-Ghes") to do a full evaluation of the team, coaching staff, prospects, development staff, scouting staff, etc -> to be honest, they seem to be doing this and my impatience makes me criticize how slow is going

 

2. Determine the short-term strategy with regards to the roster: who are the core players, who are expendables and who are must-trades:

* in my must-trade list, I have Petry, Chiarot and Toffoli because they should get higher value assets than others

 

3. Determine the amateur scouting strategy for the upcoming draft

 

4. Determine the team identity and the gaps to fill in order to achieve it

 

5. Communicate the plan with the fans

 

based on this list, it seems to me that the GortGhes are methodically going through their to-do list which is probably similar to mine

 

Nowhere in my list is the need to fire the coach and to salvage this season

 

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I agree on Toffoli ... and yet, we finally have a first line working, for the first time this year. Ugh.

 

Hoffman should be on the list as he's already 32. Toffoli, Anderson, Gallagher -- I think the question will be the returns that are available, who will actually be in demand by another GM?

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

I agree on Toffoli ... and yet, we finally have a first line working, for the first time this year. Ugh.

 

Hoffman should be on the list as he's already 32. Toffoli, Anderson, Gallagher -- I think the question will be the returns that are available, who will actually be in demand by another GM?

Hoffman is not playing on the first line of the worst team of the NHL because he is a defensive liability

Gallagher is too injury prone and has a target on his back by the referees , rarely getting the calls

I doubt the return for those players is high

 

As for Anderson, he is definitely part of my core 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

 

No one thinks that firing the coach will salvage this season. 

 

 

Then why change a coach perfectly capable of tanking ?!

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1 minute ago, Habsfan89 said:

Would that not ruin the coach for any future job? 

DD is ruined already, like Guy Boucher before him, he will have to go through a drought of opportunities after Montreal 

 

Same as for Waite, Habs past goalie coach; reputation is damaged for years 

 

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7 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

DD is ruined already, like Guy Boucher before him, he will have to go through a drought of opportunities after Montreal 

 

Same as for Waite, Habs past goalie coach; reputation is damaged for years 

 

So what you're saying is habs suck at developing coach's just as bad as players 😹

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35 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Then why change a coach perfectly capable of tanking ?!

 

Because you want an environment where veterans can regain trade value, where youngsters continue to develop... and yes, even guys who shouldn't be in the AHL anymore like Suzuki, Evans, Romanov, and probably Poehling, can develop at the NHL level. 

 

Half a season of an untenable situation where the team has quit on the coach does no one any good. 

 

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7 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

So with that being said, we're going to address our center need with the draft.

 

At the deadline we trade 

Chiarot 

Kulak 

Wideman 

Gets what ever picks we can 

 

At the draft we pull of this trade

To Arizona

Romanov, Caufield, Armia(they can flip him somewhere else)

 

To habs

Chychrun, Gostisbehere and are 1st round pick back. 

 

If we get a 1st for chiarot we would then have 3 1st round picks in the draft.

 

Looks like Petry wants out too so We could trade him to Dallas. Because they're going to lose Klingberg so this trade could work 

 

To Dallas 

Petry 

 

To habs

Klingberg 2nd round pick 1st if we can't resign him in the off season.

 

In the off season sign Laine or Forsberg  and clutterbuck  and stralman 

 

Team would look like this next year 

 

Hoffman  / Wright / Forsberg or Laine 

Drouin / Suzuki / Anderson 

Toffoli  / Dovark  / Gallagher 

Evans  / Poehling  / Clutterbuck 

 

Chychrun  / Klingberg 

Gostisbehere  /  Stralman 

Clague  / Savard 

 

Price/ Allen 

 

This would give the habs a totally different line up. You got guys on the back end that can push the play up ice and put the puck on net and QB the PP. you also add more toughness in clutterbuck, starlman 

 

We trade Byron and lehkonen for picks.

This way with the picks we get we can restock our farm system.

 

Agreed on the trading rentals for picks.

 

The asking price on Chychrun - which at least one team is believed to have met already - is three first-round picks (a combo of picks and players picked in the first round).  Notwithstanding the discussion of whether it's right to trade Romanov and Caufield, it's going to cost more than that for Chychrun alone before even adding a first-round pick also coming to Montreal.

 

Petry to Dallas doesn't work on the cap for the Stars.  The conditional pick element is also illegal (no more conditions for re-signing, that was banned in the new CBA).

 

Laine is a restricted free agent, not a UFA so you'd be offer-sheeting him at a cost of several first-round picks.  I'll use Forsberg for the cap illustration below.

 

The salary cap for next season is a maximum of $82.5 million.  Your lineup costs about $51M or so for forwards by the time you factor in projected contracts and new deals for Suzuki/Evans, the goaltending is $13.75M, and the defence is easily over $20M (I have it closer to about $23M) so you're already over the cap by several million before factoring in extras on the roster and the fact the Habs will have a cap overage this season for Suzuki/Romanov's bonuses.  From a cap perspective, you have at least a couple more quality veterans to remove just to get cap-compliant. 

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45 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

DD is ruined already, like Guy Boucher before him, he will have to go through a drought of opportunities after Montreal 

 

Same as for Waite, Habs past goalie coach; reputation is damaged for years 

 

Boucher never coached in Montreal and actually coached for 6 years in his two NHL coaching gigs. I doubt DD coaches in the NHL that long. Maybe He does learn like Eakins did the importance of having your players respect you, so they don’t quit on you (in Eakins case, he also learned the wrath of the media if you deny them their donuts).

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I dont know what to do, but again interesting comments from Hughes

 

TSN.ca:

"Hughes said he met individually with his players during the team's most recent road trip to explain what could potentially happen ahead of the Mar. 21 trade deadline. He did not specify who he spoke with, but did say he talked to veteran defenceman Ben Chiarot, who will become an unrestricted free agent this summer.

“We met with everybody, starting with Ben Chiarot," he said. “Anybody whose name has been circulating in terms of trade rumours or whatnot, to the extent that we can open the doors for them and say, ‘We’re here, we don’t have answers for you today. We’re going to try to improve this team long term. And you may be a player that moves but we wanted you to know if you have questions along the way you can come and see us.’

 

“We also wanted to take their temperature and see what kind of reaction we’d get. Is somebody like, ‘Yeah, get me out of here,’ versus ‘OK, I’m happy here but if it happens I understand it’s a business.’’’

Hughes, however, said the team may get more work done in the off-season instead of the deadline. “We don’t feel this immediate need to get everything done at the trade deadline,’’ he explained."

 

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Good, thats exactly what he should say.

 

Anyone who has a contract beyond this season, we have no desperation to trade now.  If the offer is good, yeah trade them, if its not, sit and wait.  Worked for Pacioretty deal.  We got a much better deal by waiting when the offers weren't enough. 

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1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

The salary cap for next season is a maximum of $82.5 million.  Your lineup costs about $51M or so for forwards by the time you factor in projected contracts and new deals for Suzuki/Evans, the goaltending is $13.75M, and the defence is easily over $20M (I have it closer to about $23M) so you're already over the cap by several million before factoring in extras on the roster and the fact the Habs will have a cap overage this season for Suzuki/Romanov's bonuses.  From a cap perspective, you have at least a couple more quality veterans to remove just to get cap-compliant. 

So, let me do my vision for getting cap compliant. We trade Chiarot, Petry (I think doable), Hoffman, Gallagher (he is still desirable but we may have to retain some revenue). Allen?

 

So ...

Lehkonen-Suzuki-Toffoli ~$15.5M

Drouin-Dvorak-Anderson ~$15.5M

Caufield-Evans-Ylonen ~$3.5M

Pitlick-Poehling-Pezzetta ~$3.5M

 

Edmundson-Savard ~ $7M

Romanov-Clague ~$3M

Norlinder-Niku ~ $2M

 

Price ~ $10.5M

Montembeault ~$1M

 

(Excuse the crappy line selections)

 

That's $38M for forwards, $12M for D and $11.5M for G, total of $61.5M. If we can't find a taker for Armia or Byron, they can still easily fit there. I have now changed my mind and suggest keeping Savard as we don't have a whole lot of RD options. I assume Caufield will be ready next year as will be Ylonen but 2021/2022 picks will not be yet.

 

This is not a playoff team, but has some core veterans that we can start to build around. Two expensive forward lines and two cheap ones; one mid-priced D pair and two cheap ones (both of which have a puck-mover). Assuming that Montembeault can recover -- and that Price will be playing next year.

 

As more prospects come up, they may displace players like Pitlick, Pezzetta or Niku, and Byron and Drouin only have one more year on their contracts.

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https://theathletic.com/3106665/2022/02/02/the-canadiens-path-forward-new-gm-kent-hughes-outlines-how-the-next-eight-months-could-go/

 

"But Hughes is not promising some kind of quick fix, either.

“We need to sell the vision of what we’re trying to accomplish, that we’re going to create an environment that’s fun to play in, and we’re going to play a brand of hockey that’s fun to play in over time,” he said. “How quickly do we get to that? Somebody asked me (about) players and style of play. You can’t have a coach wanting to play one way if you don’t have the players to play (that style). So, that isn’t necessarily a one-year plan.”

What Hughes and executive vice-president of hockey operations Jeff Gorton are proposing here seems to be a rebuild that is a departure from what the hockey world seems to believe a rebuild represents. Gorton’s rebuild with the New York Rangers got a number of good bounces — winning the No. 1 and No. 2 overall pick in the draft lottery, being basically unchallenged in signing Artemi Panarin as a free agent and having Adam Fox essentially orchestrate a trade to the Rangers being chief among them — but that team never went scorched earth after telling their fans in 2018 they were undergoing a rebuild.

Based on what Hughes is saying now, no one should be expecting the Canadiens to do that either."

 

 

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The Habs need an infusion of impactful young talent. (I hear people going on about all the future third-liners and 2nd/3rd pairing D-men in Laval, I just laugh - as though you win a Cup with “serviceable” hockey players). The Habs also need to radically revise the way they assess and develop young talent.

 

While there’s no way to attain that infusion without trading away veterans, I’m not that worked up about whether we go “scorched earth” or not. Two years from now, I want to be able to see an organization that can reasonably project to contend by the time Suzuki hits his prime. Whatever means we use to attain that end is fine by me.

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43 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The Habs need an infusion of impactful young talent. (I hear people going on about all the future third-liners and 2nd/3rd pairing D-men in Laval, I just laugh - as though you win a Cup with “serviceable” hockey players). The Habs also need to radically revise the way they assess and develop young talent.

 

While there’s no way to attain that infusion without trading away veterans, I’m not that worked up about whether we go “scorched earth” or not. Two years from now, I want to be able to see an organization that can reasonably project to contend by the time Suzuki hits his prime. Whatever means we use to attain that end is fine by me.

Yeah. In my proposal I suggested trading away older players who will be past their prime before we can contend. Many of the younger players -- such as Clague, or Niku, or Pitlick, surely will not be on the contender version, but, in the meantime, I think those are the kind of players we need as we develop our more talented prospects. Signing up expensive veterans for next season makes no sense at all.

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17 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Yeah. In my proposal I suggested trading away older players who will be past their prime before we can contend. Many of the younger players -- such as Clague, or Niku, or Pitlick, surely will not be on the contender version, but, in the meantime, I think those are the kind of players we need as we develop our more talented prospects. Signing up expensive veterans for next season makes no sense at all.

 

Agreed. But we can carry expensive veterans, especially given that we'll likely have ample cap space after peeling off 2-3 high-priced vets. 

 

It all depends on the return, really. A return like we got for MaxPac is a no-brainer - you pounce the minute such a deal comes on the table. But if we're talking 2nd and 3rd rounders, I dunno. Maybe you're better off keeping a Josh Anderson under those conditions. 

 

Some fans will probably be in high dudgeon if every last vet is not shipped out of town at the deadline. For my part, I'm OK with a more patient strategy.

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15 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Because you want an environment where veterans can regain trade value, where youngsters continue to develop... and yes, even guys who shouldn't be in the AHL anymore like Suzuki, Evans, Romanov, and probably Poehling, can develop at the NHL level. 

 

Half a season of an untenable situation where the team has quit on the coach does no one any good. 

 

that is so backwards!

1. hire a coach to improve trade value of the players that will not e with the team in the short term... which by extension means they arr not really part of the team anymore

2. hire a coach to also develop players who do not belong in the NHL, because the organization refuses to send tose players to the NHL.. which makes #1 hard to accomplish

3. meet the media every day and explain your line-up without giving away what you are actually doing

4. keep the respect and engagement of the players that will be the core of the rebuilt team

 

where do you find a coach that would accept that? Mark Crawford? Mike Babcock? Joel Queneville? Syvain Lefevre? Claude Julien? Bob Hartley? Patrick Roy?

 

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14 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Boucher never coached in Montreal and actually coached for 6 years in his two NHL coaching gigs. I doubt DD coaches in the NHL that long. Maybe He does learn like Eakins did the importance of having your players respect you, so they don’t quit on you (in Eakins case, he also learned the wrath of the media if you deny them their donuts).

Ducharme is a promising NHL coach that would be great as an assistant in many teams. He is getting lots of experience in Montreal like so many other coaches did before him. He will be fine

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15 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

So what you're saying is habs suck at developing coach's just as bad as players 😹

funny when you say it that way :rofl:

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13 hours ago, tomh009 said:

So, let me do my vision for getting cap compliant. We trade Chiarot, Petry (I think doable), Hoffman, Gallagher (he is still desirable but we may have to retain some revenue). Allen?

 

So ...

Lehkonen-Suzuki-Toffoli ~$15.5M

Drouin-Dvorak-Anderson ~$15.5M

Caufield-Evans-Ylonen ~$3.5M

Pitlick-Poehling-Pezzetta ~$3.5M

 

Edmundson-Savard ~ $7M

Romanov-Clague ~$3M

Norlinder-Niku ~ $2M

 

Price ~ $10.5M

Montembeault ~$1M

 

(Excuse the crappy line selections).

Your lineup is almost the same as what I have in mind. Some differences are:

I would keep Hoffman over Gallagher if we can trade Gallagher. He is a sniper that can be a place holder for Caufield while he develops properly.

If Gallagher cannot be traded for a reasonable return, I would keep that bad contract. I would still trade Toffoli if the return is as high as I think (close to Patches')

 

Lineup would be something like:

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Lehkonen-Dvorak-Gallagher

Pitlick-Evans-Ylonen

Dauphin-Poehling-Pezzetta

 

Edmundson-Savard

Romanov-Clague

Kulak-** Wideman? **

 

Price/Allen

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22 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Agreed. But we can carry expensive veterans, especially given that we'll likely have ample cap space after peeling off 2-3 high-priced vets. 

 

I don't know if ample is the right word.  Many don't realize that the Habs are technically over next year's cap already when you add in Weber's contract.  Yes, he's going to LTIR again but even with that, they'll only have a few million and 4-5 players to sign into that money.  Clearing a couple of high-priced veterans would help but even at that, that will get them cap-compliant but not much more.

 

Tom's scenario above references the likely need to retain money on some of the outgoing contracts and chances are that they'll need to take a contract back as well which quickly will add to the projected spending totals.  I don't think Montreal is going to be well below the cap as a result.  They'll get there - they have to - but I wouldn't be shocked to see their cap space closer to $2M-$3M when all is said and done.

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