Commandant Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 2 hours ago, johnnyhasbeen said: But alas nobody know who holds that now, which is why it is worth getting as many cards from the deck as you can. Actually if our cards are played right, 1st next year's is ours anyway and we are trying to scam 2nd overall from someone. Could you imagine? Bedard Michkov Wright Suzuki. OK, dreaming but not totally impossible. Please suck just as hard next year. Yes, you get more potential picks. That said, there are certain teams like Colorado or Vegas or others, where we can pretty much say a 2023 first round pick is not going to be bottom 10 in the NHL, so will not have a chance to be #1. For both Bedard and Michov they are so good, that they are unlikely to be traded. The last time a 1st overall was traded was 2003. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 It seems like we got quarters on the dollar for Toffoli - a proven top-6 playoff performer on a good value deal is worth a team's top-5 prospect. We had plenty of time to hold out for something better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, Neech said: It seems like we got quarters on the dollar for Toffoli - a proven top-6 playoff performer on a good value deal is worth a team's top-5 prospect. We had plenty of time to hold out for something better. No. 7 prospect plus a first seems to be close enough to the top-5 prospect you were expecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Hugh gort is supposed to be outstanding at recognizing talent and if we get a fast, aggressive player with high IQ then we did great. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 It seems that Hughes and Gorton have a higher opinion of Heineman than the posters here. Remains to be seen who is correct, but they apparently insisted he was in the deal. As for a team's top 5 prospect.... THN had a recent prospect issue. They did tiers.... they had 3 blue chippers on Calgary (Coronato, Pelletier, and Zary). Heineman was in a group they had a B-Level. So while they didn't rank them, he's anywhere from 4-7 according to THN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Commandant said: It seems that Hughes and Gorton have a higher opinion of Heineman than the posters here. Remains to be seen who is correct, but they apparently insisted he was in the deal. As for a team's top 5 prospect.... THN had a recent prospect issue. They did tiers.... they had 3 blue chippers on Calgary (Coronato, Pelletier, and Zary). Heineman was in a group they had a B-Level. So while they didn't rank them, he's anywhere from 4-7 according to THN. My confidence in our management team is really high. I think we are going to be competitive in short order. I want to be competitive every year and I think we are headed that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Every time I see Kent Hughes speak at a press conference, I become more and more convinced the Habs got the right guy. Articulate, intelligent, strong minded, confident and has a clear sense of what direction to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyrealist Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 3 hours ago, GHT120 said: He skated with Edmundson this morning I believe the "Chaumont is an insider reference to a TVA Sports reporter Thanks for the info, glad to see he is on the ice. Could use his skill and possibly as a trade chip I’d think if he was playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 26 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: My confidence in our management team is really high. I think we are going to be competitive in short order. I want to be competitive every year and I think we are headed that way I wish I felt the same way. It's not that I think Hugh-Gort are bad hires, it's just that I'm suffering from a case of "burned 15 times, 16 times shy." In other words, I've been through enough management groups as a fan that I'm afraid I can't muster anything more than a non-committal attitude. Like, "OK, they seem to be good hockey guys. Let's see how they do." Way too soon to tell at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I wish I felt the same way. It's not that I think Hugh-Gort are bad hires, it's just that I'm suffering from a case of "burned 15 times, 16 times shy." In other words, I've been through enough management groups as a fan that I'm afraid I can't muster anything more than a non-committal attitude. Like, "OK, they seem to be good hockey guys. Let's see how they do." Way too soon to tell at this point. I agree with your conclusion. And yet ... I'm cautiously optimistic that maybe they can do some good things. Am not confident that it will happen, but I'm thinking there is a reasonably good chance that it might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I wish I felt the same way. It's not that I think Hugh-Gort are bad hires, it's just that I'm suffering from a case of "burned 15 times, 16 times shy." In other words, I've been through enough management groups as a fan that I'm afraid I can't muster anything more than a non-committal attitude. Like, "OK, they seem to be good hockey guys. Let's see how they do." Way too soon to tell at this point. I also agree with your conclusion ... one difference I find is that Gorton and Hughes are MANAGERS with hockey experience, not HOCKEY GUYS with some management experience ... as long as they hire the right "hockey guys" the Habs should be better off ... also, both just strike me as fundamentally smarter than anyone the Habs have had in some time, for whatever that is worth ... I prefer smart over not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Part of my optimism is that this organization has parted ways with the old boys club and the kind of thinking that includes. They speak of a modern team, using modern techniques. They have identified the style of team they want and they have made their first move. If Hugh-Gort can live up to their reputations as great judges of hockey skill then we are golden. Time will tell of course but I’m sure hopeful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: I also agree with your conclusion ... one difference I find is that Gorton and Hughes are MANAGERS with hockey experience, not HOCKEY GUYS with some management experience ... as long as they hire the right "hockey guys" the Habs should be better off ... also, both just strike me as fundamentally smarter than anyone the Habs have had in some time, for whatever that is worth ... I prefer smart over not. I can agree on Hughes... but I think Gorton should be seen as a hockey guy given the time he's spent as an NHL GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Commandant said: It seems that Hughes and Gorton have a higher opinion of Heineman than the posters here. Remains to be seen who is correct, but they apparently insisted he was in the deal. As for a team's top 5 prospect.... THN had a recent prospect issue. They did tiers.... they had 3 blue chippers on Calgary (Coronato, Pelletier, and Zary). Heineman was in a group they had a B-Level. So while they didn't rank them, he's anywhere from 4-7 according to THN. I hope the kid turns out to be good. Main reason I was underwhelmed with the return, is that we didn’t get any of the prospects that have usually been mentioned on the local radio shows, or other media prospects reviews. Pelletier and Coronato have been the ones discussed the most, and given Taffoli’s contract, and Calgary being “all in”, I thought the return would be higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I wish I felt the same way. It's not that I think Hugh-Gort are bad hires, it's just that I'm suffering from a case of "burned 15 times, 16 times shy." In other words, I've been through enough management groups as a fan that I'm afraid I can't muster anything more than a non-committal attitude. Like, "OK, they seem to be good hockey guys. Let's see how they do." Way too soon to tell at this point. This is actually the most comfortable I’ve been with the selection of the management team - particularly Gorton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said: I hope the kid turns out to be good. Main reason I was underwhelmed with the return, is that we didn’t get any of the prospects that have usually been mentioned on the local radio shows, or other media prospects reviews. Pelletier and Coronato have been the ones discussed the most, and given Taffoli’s contract, and Calgary being “all in”, I thought the return would be higher. Well Pelletier is french so that automatically makes him a Habs target as far as media is concerned And coronato was a first rounder who played with Farrell in chicago and is still playing with him at Harvard so the dot connecting is easy there. That said I do agree with THN that those two are better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Commandant said: That said I do agree with THN that those two are better. Yes. But if you were the Calgary GM, would you really be willing to give up a first-rounder AND your top prospect in exchange for Toffoli? I don't think I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I wish I felt the same way. It's not that I think Hugh-Gort are bad hires, it's just that I'm suffering from a case of "burned 15 times, 16 times shy." In other words, I've been through enough management groups as a fan that I'm afraid I can't muster anything more than a non-committal attitude. Like, "OK, they seem to be good hockey guys. Let's see how they do." Way too soon to tell at this point. I mostly just follow the prospects for fun and of course to see them all become hall of famers. But yes, i do know the vast majority of them wont be impact player in NHL. 2011-14 Habs drafted 28 kids; 4 "NHLers", 2 still on Habs 24 busts non-NHL regular guys (lots late picks so those no surprise) 2011 Beaulieu, 2012 Galchenyuk, 2013 Lehkonen, 2014 Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2011 I think they only had three picks in total, everything else traded away. 2012 they had a full set of picks but only Galchenyuk and Hudon even set foot in the NHL, none of the others even played a game. 2013 also had De La Rose, who played about three seasons (and McCarron played one). But, yeah, those were four grim draft years. But in 2011 only 21 of the 30 first-rounders played three years or more. A bad year overall, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Commandant said: Well Pelletier is french so that automatically makes him a Habs target as far as media is concerned And coronato was a first rounder who played with Farrell in chicago and is still playing with him at Harvard so the dot connecting is easy there. That said I do agree with THN that those two are better. Wasn’t talking about Montreal media speaking about the two Calgary prospects. Was referring to the prospects that Calgary media was high on for a future with the Flames. most Flames fans I know, and the media here are thrilled with this deal, but still want them to ad a D. After this deal, a return for Giordono is pretty much ruled out. yeah, I can see how the French media probably wanted Pelletier, because he is French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 English media also.tend to assume the Habs will want the french player. They dont campaign for the player like some of the french media do but still make assumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 7 hours ago, tomh009 said: No. 7 prospect plus a first seems to be close enough to the top-5 prospect you were expecting. A blue-chipper plus a second-rounder is better than a B-prospect plus a late first. I'd rather have held out for more of a blue chipper type because Toffoli is arguably our top trade asset locked up for 2.5 years. 7 hours ago, Commandant said: It seems that Hughes and Gorton have a higher opinion of Heineman than the posters here. Remains to be seen who is correct, but they apparently insisted he was in the deal. As for a team's top 5 prospect.... THN had a recent prospect issue. They did tiers.... they had 3 blue chippers on Calgary (Coronato, Pelletier, and Zary). Heineman was in a group they had a B-Level. So while they didn't rank them, he's anywhere from 4-7 according to THN. I was hoping that Toffoli could have netted an A-prospect from a contending team. Let's hope management has the right intel on Heineman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Again pacioretty gave us the blue chipper plus 2nd rounder. Did Toffoli get less than that? Yes. Is Toffoli as good as Pacioretty? No. So expecting the same return seems to be a bit of a pipe dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 It seems that Hughes was quite keen specifically on Heineman. From the Athletic: Quote “That was certainly one of the factors,” Hughes said Wednesday. “But we love his speed, we love his aggressiveness. We are going to try to improve our team speed, that is certainly an area of focus for us, but I wouldn’t want to mislead people into believing that we’re solely focused on speed. If you were to listen to Martin’s press conference, I think one of the themes for Martin would be hockey sense as well. We’re not going to have the 20 smartest players in the league, we’re not going to have the 20 fastest players in the league, but there are certain areas of focus for us, and speed’s one of them. Emil brings that and he’s also a very physical, competitive hockey player with great character.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, tomh009 said: It seems that Hughes was quite keen specifically on Heineman. From the Athletic: trying to look for similar players, I checked the reports on the players available at the 2017 draft. Suzuki's and Poehling's year. I mush rather get Klim Kostin from STL in a trade than their 1st this year. what I mean is that Heineman (similar player to Kostin from the reports) and the late 1st we got this year is a good return for Toffoli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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