alfredoh2009 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 55 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/stu-cowan-chris-nilan-takes-canadiens-young-guns-under-his-wing?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1669658351 This could easily go in the “Where are they Now” thread - certainly the anecdote about Knuckles threatening to beat the sh*t out of any rookie who didn’t give their all to get Gainey and Robinson another Cup in 1986 is priceless - but the article is relevant to the Revamp because it suggests that a cultural shift is taking place: Nilan inviting Harris and Xhekaj to his home for dinner is another example of how the Canadiens’ alumni has reconnected with the team since GM Marc Bergevin was fired one year ago Monday and Jeff Gorton was named executive vice-president of hockey operations, later hiring Kent Hughes as GM and Martin St. Louis as head coach. In July, Canadiens owner/president Geoff Molson announced that Nilan had been added as one of four new team ambassadors — along with Guy Carbonneau, Vincent Damphousse and Patrice Brisebois — to join Yvan Cournoyer and Réjean Houle. During Bergevin’s 10 years as GM, the Canadiens’ alumni felt like they were shunned. I am happy for Nilan., but in MB's defense, he never stopped any alumni to invite a player over for lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 11 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I am happy for Nilan., but in MB's defense, he never stopped any alumni to invite a player over for lunch. Honorary team ambassador alumnus now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: I am happy for Nilan., but in MB's defense, he never stopped any alumni to invite a player over for lunch. It isn't about that. Its about naming them team ambassadors and inviting them to be part of the organization. When you make the alumni feel wanted then it leads to things like this. When you don't contact them and make them feel forgotten, then they feel like their influence isn't wanted by management. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 29, 2022 Author Share Posted November 29, 2022 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: I am happy for Nilan., but in MB's defense, he never stopped any alumni to invite a player over for lunch. If the GM isn't welcoming former players involvement with the organization I doubt any players would have accepted an invitation for any "unsanctioned" former player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 23 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: The day the Habs win the 25th cup, I will accept that I was wrong. Until then, I will applaud every good move (Dach) by Hugh-Gort and criticize any bad move (nit picking here: keeping Slafkovsky at NHL level) What I look for from HuGo is to build a team that can compete for many years. Obviously winning the cup is the final and ultimate goal and hard to do when you have 32 teams with the same goal but if the Habs can be a legitimate contender for a number of years than I won't complain too much about the job they do. These boards are for discussing and analyzing every move they make. That's what makes it fun as everyone has different opinions and sometimes it takes a while to determine whether a move is good or not. Right now the Dach trade looks very good, hopefully it still does in a couple years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 On 11/28/2022 at 3:00 PM, alfredoh2009 said: Gorton's one year anniversary at the helm of the Habs is today, and multiple media outlets are praising his tenure. I went to check the NYR's chances to win a cup this year, to see what is the likelihood the Habs have found the mythical GM (or half of the GM two headed entity) that brings the 25th cup to Montreal. Why do I feel underwhelmed? Am I too pessimistic and cynical? You do realize that someone else has been the GM of the Rangers for the past few years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: You do realize that someone else has been the GM of the Rangers for the past few years? You do realize that I know that much But the core of drafted payers is still there , no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 The new GM made the horrible Buchnevich for Blais trade, let Motte and Copp walk as UFAs, traded a 3rd rounder for Reaves and then flipped him for a 5th one year later, and decided that a 37 year old Jaro Halak would be a good backup goalie. He let Strome walk and replaced him with Trocheck which is proving to be a downgrade. He let Vatrano walk. All of these are moves that have cost the team, and they are still fighting for a playoff spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Good points, I agree specially on Slafkovsky: not a knock on the player but what seems as a missed opportunity to do what's best for him. https://www.habsworld.net/2023/01/year-to-date-management-and-coaching-review/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Jury is out. Not like Slafkosky's development path hasnt been discussed behind closed doors. All experts have differing opinions on what "might" be best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Very good press conference from Hughes. I am not 100% on board with Hugh-Gort's decisions, but I have to give it to them that they are confident and diligent in execution I really hope it will work out and bring a cup to the Habs. Go Habs Go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 10 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Very good press conference from Hughes. I am not 100% on board with Hugh-Gort's decisions, but I have to give it to them that they are confident and diligent in execution I really hope it will work out and bring a cup to the Habs. Go Habs Go! I have to ask, what decisions of HuGort do you have issues with? I’m not trying to attack you. I’m genuinely curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Monty has been very good. Keep it up friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 27 minutes ago, PMAC said: I have to ask, what decisions of HuGort do you have issues with? I’m not trying to attack you. I’m genuinely curious. not much, really. handling of AHL and development. Hughes did provide more clarity today on how they view it. He is taking the view as a former player agent, where he would tell his former clients - for example- that they may need to further develop their skating and then work on a plan. It brings a lot more clarity to me in how I was understanding them wrong. Seems like Hughes views the organization as a flat field where he assigns players to develop where the resources are: Slaf with the NHL was the example he used. He also views NHL players in a similar view, where he sees them as work in progress. I have been trying to understand from Gorton's historical view. going back to what he did before. I do not agree on how their view is being implemented. IMHO, I would have liked them to further expand the resources and roster in Laval and to use it as a stepping stone for Minor league prospect that have recently graduated to the professional level. I find that there is a missing middle phase to their development approach. Hence my other posts on insulating and bottom of the barrel signings But I am willing to learn and to grow to like this new approach as long as it leads to a cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 13 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: do not agree on how their view is being implemented. IMHO, I would have liked them to further expand the resources and roster in Laval and to use it as a stepping stone for Minor league prospect that have recently graduated to the professional level. I find that there is a missing middle phase to their development approach. Hence my other posts on insulating and bottom of the barrel signings I don't think an NHL level initiation is for every player. Most if not 99% will go the junior/AHL route. I don't agree with Slaf being with the big club with zero AHL time, but admittedly, they must have seen something in the #1 overall pick to keep him up. This is also Hughes's first full NHL season post draft, so it's not quite fair to assume that all top tier prospects will forego the minor league development route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 18 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: ... MHO, I would have liked them to further expand the resources and roster in Laval and to use it as a stepping stone for Minor league prospect that have recently graduated to the professional level. I find that there is a missing middle phase to their development approach ... Point taken ... one factor is that the Habs currently have only four NHL (one-way or two-way) contract slots available ... adding veteran presence to The Rocket would eat into that and perhaps restrict in-season trades or NCAA free agent signings ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 I think Hughes is basically saying that they didn’t trust Laval not to screw Slafkovsky up - partially due to increased expectations of scoring in the AHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 18 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I think Hughes is basically saying that they didn’t trust Laval not to screw Slafkovsky up - partially due to increased expectations of scoring in the AHL. Very interesting comment by Hughes. I’m not too sure what to make of it. The concern seems to be that the kid might not be offensively productive in the AHL, and that would lead to cascading concerns, heightened pressure, etc., that would be bad for his development. So better to keep him here in a bottom-6 role and focus on developing his fundamentals. I’ll admit, this never occurred to me. That’s because it never occurred to me that the #1 overall pick might be incapable of being offensively productive in the AHL. To me, that’s an argument for sending him back to junior rather than keeping him with the big club. But then, I guess, you get into Hughes’s view - quite obviously implied here - that he and MSL and the whole Habs managerial/coaching crew are superior player-developers to any of the available alternatives. It certainly shows that they are indeed thinking the long game with Slaf, but I don’t like the framing of his development in terms of ‘we can’t expect him to be offensively productive.’ I can all too readily see a trajectory here where he becomes a 20-20, 40-50 point, ‘heavy’ and feared 2nd/3rd-line W. That’s not what I want from a 1st overall pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted January 19, 2023 Author Share Posted January 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Very interesting comment by Hughes. I’m not too sure what to make of it. The concern seems to be that the kid might not be offensively productive in the AHL, and that would lead to cascading concerns, heightened pressure, etc., that would be bad for his development. So better to keep him here in a bottom-6 role and focus on developing his fundamentals. I’ll admit, this never occurred to me. That’s because it never occurred to me that the #1 overall pick might be incapable of being offensively productive in the AHL. To me, that’s an argument for sending him back to junior rather than keeping him with the big club. But then, I guess, you get into Hughes’s view - quite obviously implied here - that he and MSL and the whole Habs managerial/coaching crew are superior player-developers to any of the available alternatives. It certainly shows that they are indeed thinking the long game with Slaf, but I don’t like the framing of his development in terms of ‘we can’t expect him to be offensively productive.’ I can all too readily see a trajectory here where he becomes a 20-20, 40-50 point, ‘heavy’ and feared 2nd/3rd-line W. That’s not what I want from a 1st overall pick. I think the concern was that he might not be immediately productive and that would trigger a media/fan onslaught. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 26 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Very interesting comment by Hughes. I’m not too sure what to make of it. The concern seems to be that the kid might not be offensively productive in the AHL, and that would lead to cascading concerns, heightened pressure, etc., that would be bad for his development. So better to keep him here in a bottom-6 role and focus on developing his fundamentals. I’ll admit, this never occurred to me. That’s because it never occurred to me that the #1 overall pick might be incapable of being offensively productive in the AHL. To me, that’s an argument for sending him back to junior rather than keeping him with the big club. But then, I guess, you get into Hughes’s view - quite obviously implied here - that he and MSL and the whole Habs managerial/coaching crew are superior player-developers to any of the available alternatives. It certainly shows that they are indeed thinking the long game with Slaf, but I don’t like the framing of his development in terms of ‘we can’t expect him to be offensively productive.’ I can all too readily see a trajectory here where he becomes a 20-20, 40-50 point, ‘heavy’ and feared 2nd/3rd-line W. That’s not what I want from a 1st overall pick. 17 minutes ago, GHT120 said: I think the concern was that he might not be immediately productive and that would trigger a media/fan onslaught. I still found the entire explanation by Hughes to be a bit bizarre. Yes he spoke about the scoring expectations but he was awkward in his comments. I still feel like the gist of Hughes comments were that they didn’t trust Laval. Maybe that’s my own cynical view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 13 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I still found the entire explanation by Hughes to be a bit bizarre. Yes he spoke about the scoring expectations but he was awkward in his comments. I still feel like the gist of Hughes comments were that they didn’t trust Laval. Maybe that’s my own cynical view Didn’t HuGo hire Houle? Why would they not trust him and his staff, then? A more positive spin - one I’ve assayed before - is that they think there is something special about MSL and (frankly) themselves when it comes to player evaluation and development. It’s like when Jean-Luc Picard takes the helm of the Enterprise…not an expression of mistrust in his team of pilots, just a conviction that he has a special responsibility and needs to steer the ship in a particular situation. I’m sure Hughes is good at player assessment/development, but I see no reason to think MSL is anything special on this front. There’s no evidence on way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Very interesting comment by Hughes. I’m not too sure what to make of it. The concern seems to be that the kid might not be offensively productive in the AHL, and that would lead to cascading concerns, heightened pressure, etc., that would be bad for his development. So better to keep him here in a bottom-6 role and focus on developing his fundamentals. I’ll admit, this never occurred to me. That’s because it never occurred to me that the #1 overall pick might be incapable of being offensively productive in the AHL. To me, that’s an argument for sending him back to junior rather than keeping him with the big club. But then, I guess, you get into Hughes’s view - quite obviously implied here - that he and MSL and the whole Habs managerial/coaching crew are superior player-developers to any of the available alternatives. It certainly shows that they are indeed thinking the long game with Slaf, but I don’t like the framing of his development in terms of ‘we can’t expect him to be offensively productive.’ I can all too readily see a trajectory here where he becomes a 20-20, 40-50 point, ‘heavy’ and feared 2nd/3rd-line W. That’s not what I want from a 1st overall pick. I think that Hughes has no confidence in the Laval coaching staff and we should expect a change this summer. I also think that its way too early to put a ceiling on an 18 year old's production. Joe Thornton scored 6 points in a full season as an 18 year old rookie. More recently Jack Hughes greatly struggled too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 36 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Didn’t HuGo hire Houle? Why would they not trust him and his staff, then? A more positive spin - one I’ve assayed before - is that they think there is something special about MSL and (frankly) themselves when it comes to player evaluation and development. It’s like when Jean-Luc Picard takes the helm of the Enterprise…not an expression of mistrust in his team of pilots, just a conviction that he has a special responsibility and needs to steer the ship in a particular situation. I’m sure Hughes is good at player assessment/development, but I see no reason to think MSL is anything special on this front. There’s no evidence on way or the other. Houle was hired prior to last season. He was a Bergevin hire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, Commandant said: Houle was hired prior to last season. He was a Bergevin hire. OK thanks - that explains a whole lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Didn’t HuGo hire Houle? Why would they not trust him and his staff, then? A more positive spin - one I’ve assayed before - is that they think there is something special about MSL and (frankly) themselves when it comes to player evaluation and development. It’s like when Jean-Luc Picard takes the helm of the Enterprise…not an expression of mistrust in his team of pilots, just a conviction that he has a special responsibility and needs to steer the ship in a particular situation. I’m sure Hughes is good at player assessment/development, but I see no reason to think MSL is anything special on this front. There’s no evidence on way or the other. I have voiced my concern in developing MSL's coaching skills by handing him the task of developing the (arguably) 1st overall pick. It is not fair for MSL, the NHL coaching staff and Slaf. I think that Slaf will be a good top-6 winger, but I do not see a Jumbo-Joe type of talent in him. He is not close to the physical play of a Brady Tckachuk for example and he has not shown the finesse of a 30+ goal scorer. (fingers crossed, pray to god, he turns out great) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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