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Wheeler 2019 re-draft

https://theathletic.com/3447832/2022/08/01/2019-nhl-draft-rankings-revisited/

 

5. Los Angeles Kings: RW Cole Caufield
Actual draft pick: No. 15 (change: +10) to Montreal
My final ranking: No. 10 (change: +5)

This is another one I feel good about. Caufield has run into his fair share of naysayers over the years. They were there in his draft year. They were there last season, as he tried to find his footing in the NHL. But all he has ever done is not just figure it out, but thrive. He became one of the most prolific scorers in the history of USA Hockey’s national development program. He put together the most prolific goal-scoring season by a teenager in the last two decades of college hockey and became just the third during that stretch to score 30 goals, joining Kyle Connor and Thomas Vanek before him (his 30 in 31 bested Connor’s 35 in 38 and Vanek’s 31 in 45). And then he scored 22 goals and 35 points in his last 37 games to finish his rookie season as the Habs’ second-leading scorer. And every step of the way, his game looked like it would work too. The shiny production was never a mirage. He always had singular skill as a shooter, a stocky build, a sixth sense for timing and spacing, some of the quickest hands in his age group, and the speed required to get in and out of the spots he needed to. He’s going to score 40 and I’m not sure there’s another player in the 2019 draft that I’d confidently say that about (though Hughes and Boldy might get there, they’re not going to score like him).

 

11. Arizona Coyotes: C Kirby Dach
Actual draft pick: No. 3 (change: -8) to Chicago
My final ranking: No. 8 (change: -3)

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15 minutes ago, DON said:

...

5. Los Angeles Kings: RW Cole Caufield
Actual draft pick: No. 15 (change: +10) to Montreal
My final ranking: No. 10 (change: +5)

...

 

 

It shows how lucky the Habs (Timmins/Bergevin) were that other teams were idiots ... although it was RUMOURED that they would have taken Cam York over Caufield if the Flyers hadn't grabbed him one spot before Montreal.

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4 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

It shows how lucky the Habs (Timmins/Bergevin) were that other teams were idiots ... although it was RUMOURED that they would have taken Cam York over Caufield if the Flyers hadn't grabbed him one spot before Montreal.

Will Hutson be another size biased pick where many GMs just couldnt pull the trigger on selecting a 5'7" d-man. And Habs doubled-down with 80pt 20yr old, similar sized d-man in Tourigny at 216th.

 

Habs could use an offensive d-man or two to develop, thats for sure. 

 

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3 minutes ago, DON said:

Will Hutson be another size biased pick where many GMs just couldnt pull the trigger on selecting a 5'7" d-man. And Habs doubled-down with 80pt 20yr old, similar sized d-man in Tourigny at 216th.

 

Habs could use an offensive d-man or two to develop, thats for sure. 

 

I need to quit drooling over this kid. I don't get excited about draft picks. In fact, over the last 45 years of being a hockey fan, I've developed a very pessimistic view if most draft picks.  I just have a feeling about hutson. Subban was the last defenseman that got me excited. 

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I really like Hutson's smarts, how he plays the game. We'll have to wait and see whether he is capable of doing the same in the NHL, though.

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54 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

It shows how lucky the Habs (Timmins/Bergevin) were that other teams were idiots ... although it was RUMOURED that they would have taken Cam York over Caufield if the Flyers hadn't grabbed him one spot before Montreal.

 

Lucky or skill it was a great pick.  Never heard the rumour about York but during the documentary they showed about the draft the Habs seemed quite happy when he was available and when an offer came in to move down a couple spots for a 3rd round pick, Timmins quickly said NO.  I know many like to criticize Timmins (and with some justification) but this was a great pick. 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Pretty hard to get excited about this in the current context, I have to say.

 

 

But it's always interesting to see the next Habs superstar centre ... Bedard ... hopeful but REALISTIC.

 

On a serious note ... hopefully Roy and Kidney get lots of TOI and produce.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Pretty hard to get excited about this in the current context, I have to say.

Roy & Kidney both lit up the Q last year, so am excited to see how they stack up vs stiffer competition.

Hopefully those that are due to be tarred and feathered, still get whats due. But, little to do with this crop of kids.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Pretty hard to get excited about this in the current context, I have to say.

 

Those involved in the 2018 and 2003 scandals deserve the harshest punishment. 

 

The management at Hockey Canada needs a major overhaul.  Fire everyone in senior management and start over. 

 

That said, I don't think we should punish this group of teenagers cause of what previous groups did. They deserve to play in the tournament and get that opportunity. 

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3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Those involved in the 2018 and 2003 scandals deserve the harshest punishment. 

 

The management at Hockey Canada needs a major overhaul.  Fire everyone in senior management and start over. 

 

That said, I don't think we should punish this group of teenagers cause of what previous groups did. They deserve to play in the tournament and get that opportunity. 

👍

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Those involved in the 2018 and 2003 scandals deserve the harshest punishment. 

 

The management at Hockey Canada needs a major overhaul.  Fire everyone in senior management and start over. 

 

That said, I don't think we should punish this group of teenagers cause of what previous groups did. They deserve to play in the tournament and get that opportunity. 

 

For sure they deserve to play. I'm totally in agreement, Hockey Canada should be completely blown up.

 

I just find it hard mustering enthusiasm as a fan given the high probability that a number of players on that team have been involved in sexual assault of one form or another.

 

Of course, the same is true of the Habs. I do suspect, though, that with maturity comes less egregious behaviour. At the very least, NHLers are more likely to be aware that they're in the public eye and therefore less likely to commit new outrages, whatever they did in junior.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

For sure they deserve to play. I'm totally in agreement, Hockey Canada should be completely blown up.

 

I just find it hard mustering enthusiasm as a fan given the high probability that a number of players on that team have been involved in sexual assault of one form or another.

 

Of course, the same is true of the Habs. I do suspect, though, that with maturity comes less egregious behaviour. At the very least, NHLers are more likely to be aware that they're in the public eye and therefore less likely to commit new outrages, whatever they did in junior.

 

Define high probability. 

 

We still have credible allegations against less than half of the 2018 and 2003 teams.  So in the last 20 years, we have total, less than one full roster of players.  Thats less than 5% of the players on those junior teams with credible allegations against them. 

Is that too high? yes.  Way too high.

 

Is it unfair to say their is a high probability that members of this team have committed assaults?  When historically its still less than 5%, yes, I don't want to paint this whole team with that unless we have something more than past bad behaviour of a few teams. 

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... I just find it hard mustering enthusiasm as a fan given the high probability that a number of players on that team have been involved in sexual assault of one form or another ...

 

 

To which team do you refer?

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https://theathletic.com/3467668/2022/08/02/sakic-avalanche-gm-ranking-trades/

 

Bit on Sakic as GM, now president. Both he and Yzerman seem to have "it" off the ice as well. Loved watching both guys play.  I remember almost cheering for Sakic (and Sundin) when playing for the Nordiques.

 

Tier One: Elite moves

1. Nov. 5, 2017

Avalanche acquire Andrew Hammond, Shane Bowers, 2019 first-round pick (Bowen Byram), 2019 third-round pick (Stienburg) from Ottawa; Vladislav Kamenev, Samuel Girard, 2018 second-round pick (traded down) from Nashville.

Predators acquire Kyle Turris from Ottawa

Senators acquire Matt Duchene from Colorado

There’s a lot to unpack here, but in short, Sakic turned Duchene — a player who had demanded a trade — into a treasure chest that is still giving back to the Avalanche.

Duchene was at one point a core player for Colorado and appeared in two All-Star Games, but Sakic’s return was greater than likely he even could have envisioned. The 2019 first-round pick turned out to be fourth overall, and Colorado nabbed Byram, who might end up being the crown jewel of this deal. The 21-year-old was dynamite in the playoffs, leading all players with a plus-15 postseason rating this year. He had nine assists and led all skaters in 5-on-5 ice time during the Stanley Cup Final. And, again, he’s only 21.

Girard is a top-four defenseman whom Colorado extended long term. He’s an elite skater and an offensive threat, and he was having a solid postseason before breaking his sternum in Game 3 of the second round.

The Avalanche traded the 2018 second-round pick to Pittsburgh and acquired a third-round pick and fifth-round pick in that draft. We’ll lump that transaction in with the Duchene trade. It led to the Avalanche picking Justus Annunen, their top goalie prospect who dressed for postseason games this year, and defenseman Danila Zhuravlyov, who signed this spring. He’s played three KHL seasons, and the team believes he could emerge as a player.

Kamenev played 64 NHL games for Colorado, and Hammond had a .933 save percentage in three 2018 playoff games. Then there is Shane Bowers, once a first-round pick, who was with the Colorado Eagles last year, and Stienburg, who averaged more than a point per game at Cornell this past season.

That’s quite the haul for a player who both wanted out and had only two years left on his deal.

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17 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

To which team do you refer?

 

The junior team.

 

The issue here goes beyond the specific assault cases in question, and encompasses what even that reprobate Scott Smith concedes is a toxic, misogynistic culture. In other words, the rapists under discussion are a symptom of a much wider reality, just as Mailloux’s behaviour was not an extraordinary deviation from the norm, but rather in alignment with the culture and expectations in which he operated.

 

Put more simply: these kids are disproportionately misogynistic, violent, toxic pieces of sh*t.

 

We’ve always kinda known this. I mean, put young men in an ultra-competitive environment in which the aim is to physically dominate other young men, and also in a context where they are worshipped as gods by local yokels and face minimal accountability for their off-ice behaviour, and that’s not a recipe for producing decent human beings.

 

It’s just harder to ignore what “we’ve always kinda known” in the current climate of scandal.

 

I don’t ask that athletes be great human beings, just that they not be utterly despicable. Too much of what we’re hearing about junior hockey suggests that too many of the players are the latter.

 

The good news is that they’re just kids. They can, with time, and even without the benefit of the sort of heavy-duty conditioning to which Mailloux has been exposed, unlearn the worst excesses of juvenile toxic masculinity and rape culture. I remember reading a quote from a scholar who’d researched this, and she commented that her interviews with older NHLers indicated that, having matured and found themselves in loving relationships, could not believe how they acted in their youth. The NHL culture is probably less toxic, as a whole, than junior culture, if only from the sheer number of players who have families and functional relationships with their wives or partners. One can hope.

 

(And please don’t come at me with the old “boys will be boys” argument. Yes, most young men are ####-ups to some degree or other, but the indications are that youth hockey culture is *disproportionately* pathological. Degree matters).

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1 hour ago, DON said:

https://theathletic.com/3467668/2022/08/02/sakic-avalanche-gm-ranking-trades/

 

Bit on Sakic as GM, now president. Both he and Yzerman seem to have "it" off the ice as well. Loved watching both guys play.  I remember almost cheering for Sakic (and Sundin) when playing for the Nordiques.

 

Tier One: Elite moves

1. Nov. 5, 2017

Avalanche acquire Andrew Hammond, Shane Bowers, 2019 first-round pick (Bowen Byram), 2019 third-round pick (Stienburg) from Ottawa; Vladislav Kamenev, Samuel Girard, 2018 second-round pick (traded down) from Nashville.

Predators acquire Kyle Turris from Ottawa

Senators acquire Matt Duchene from Colorado

There’s a lot to unpack here, but in short, Sakic turned Duchene — a player who had demanded a trade — into a treasure chest that is still giving back to the Avalanche.

Duchene was at one point a core player for Colorado and appeared in two All-Star Games, but Sakic’s return was greater than likely he even could have envisioned. The 2019 first-round pick turned out to be fourth overall, and Colorado nabbed Byram, who might end up being the crown jewel of this deal. The 21-year-old was dynamite in the playoffs, leading all players with a plus-15 postseason rating this year. He had nine assists and led all skaters in 5-on-5 ice time during the Stanley Cup Final. And, again, he’s only 21.

Girard is a top-four defenseman whom Colorado extended long term. He’s an elite skater and an offensive threat, and he was having a solid postseason before breaking his sternum in Game 3 of the second round.

The Avalanche traded the 2018 second-round pick to Pittsburgh and acquired a third-round pick and fifth-round pick in that draft. We’ll lump that transaction in with the Duchene trade. It led to the Avalanche picking Justus Annunen, their top goalie prospect who dressed for postseason games this year, and defenseman Danila Zhuravlyov, who signed this spring. He’s played three KHL seasons, and the team believes he could emerge as a player.

Kamenev played 64 NHL games for Colorado, and Hammond had a .933 save percentage in three 2018 playoff games. Then there is Shane Bowers, once a first-round pick, who was with the Colorado Eagles last year, and Stienburg, who averaged more than a point per game at Cornell this past season.

That’s quite the haul for a player who both wanted out and had only two years left on his deal.

Im just thinking about us trading Craig Rivet to SJ. We are still enjoying great benefits from that one.

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54 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The junior team.

 

The issue here goes beyond the specific assault cases in question, and encompasses what even that reprobate Scott Smith concedes is a toxic, misogynistic culture. In other words, the rapists under discussion are a symptom of a much wider reality, just as Mailloux’s behaviour was not an extraordinary deviation from the norm, but rather in alignment with the culture and expectations in which he operated.

 

Put more simply: these kids are disproportionately misogynistic, violent, toxic pieces of sh*t.

 

We’ve always kinda known this. I mean, put young men in an ultra-competitive environment in which the aim is to physically dominate other young men, and also in a context where they are worshipped as gods by local yokels and face minimal accountability for their off-ice behaviour, and that’s not a recipe for producing decent human beings.

 

It’s just harder to ignore what “we’ve always kinda known” in the current climate of scandal.

 

I don’t ask that athletes be great human beings, just that they not be utterly despicable. Too much of what we’re hearing about junior hockey suggests that too many of the players are the latter.

 

The good news is that they’re just kids. They can, with time, and even without the benefit of the sort of heavy-duty conditioning to which Mailloux has been exposed, unlearn the worst excesses of juvenile toxic masculinity and rape culture. I remember reading a quote from a scholar who’d researched this, and she commented that her interviews with older NHLers indicated that, having matured and found themselves in loving relationships, could not believe how they acted in their youth. The NHL culture is probably less toxic, as a whole, than junior culture, if only from the sheer number of players who have families and functional relationships with their wives or partners. One can hope.

 

(And please don’t come at me with the old “boys will be boys” argument. Yes, most young men are ####-ups to some degree or other, but the indications are that youth hockey culture is *disproportionately* pathological. Degree matters).

 

There is no doubt a culture change has to happen and changes have to be made at the top.  What happened was thoroughly disgusting and appalling.

 

At the same time we have to be careful not to paint all junior hockey players with the same brush. Many of them are outstanding young men despite the temptations they are quite often subject to. 

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The junior team ...

 

 

Apologies ... that was obvious ... I meant which year.

 

While I agree that Hockey Canada is a festering cesspool of toxic, misogynistic culture IMO (I believe everyone in a decision-making capacity needs to be replaced), if you mean the team about to play in the delayed 2022 WJHC then IMO it is wrong to besmirch the reputations of those young men without any evidence that they personally have done anything to deserve it.

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3 hours ago, Dalhabs said:

Im just thinking about us trading Craig Rivet to SJ. We are still enjoying great benefits from that one.

We're indeed very pleased to have Suzuki and Norlinder as the end results of that one!

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

Apologies ... that was obvious ... I meant which year.

 

While I agree that Hockey Canada is a festering cesspool of toxic, misogynistic culture IMO (I believe everyone in a decision-making capacity needs to be replaced), if you mean the team about to play in the delayed 2022 WJHC then IMO it is wrong to besmirch the reputations of those young men without any evidence that they personally have done anything to deserve it.

 

I'm not besmirching any individual's reputation. 

 

What I'm saying is these young men come out of a cesspool "occupational culture" and are very likely representative products of that culture. 

 

This doesn't mean concluding that Player X or Y must be a misogynistic pus-bag. It does mean that the team is likely to have a disproportionately high number of misogynistic pus-bags on it. And to my mind, that puts a pall on the festivities. 

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I think it is just a question of phrasing in his second language ... but some will obviously make a mountain out of this molehill
 

 

The "JH to MTL" crowd noting that he played with Matheson for almost 4 seasons in Florida and apparently JH and Suzuki are buddies (Hockey30 says they are on a 3-on-3 hockey team).

 

 

Should be a busy rumour mill until(???) he re-signs in Cangary.

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17 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

Apologies ... that was obvious ... I meant which year.

 

While I agree that Hockey Canada is a festering cesspool of toxic, misogynistic culture IMO (I believe everyone in a decision-making capacity needs to be replaced), if you mean the team about to play in the delayed 2022 WJHC then IMO it is wrong to besmirch the reputations of those young men without any evidence that they personally have done anything to deserve it.

   I have to say that I think it is missing the point to say that Hockey Canada is a cesspool of toxic culture and also placing the blame in the wrong spot. 

 

  HC has control of these players for something like a month a year.  This is not where the problem lies.  The root of the problem is in junior (and possibly) minor hockey.  Yet no one is calling for the people running these leagues to all be fired.   

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9 minutes ago, Peter Puck said:

   I have to say that I think it is missing the point to say that Hockey Canada is a cesspool of toxic culture and also placing the blame in the wrong spot. 

 

  HC has control of these players for something like a month a year.  This is not where the problem lies.  The root of the problem is in junior (and possibly) minor hockey.  Yet no one is calling for the people running these leagues to all be fired.   

Reports of insane hazing going on in the CHL (i think it was OHL players coming out on that?) was pretty sad to hear as well, just how low they can sink in depravity...again assume with blind eye from the adults in charge.

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