Trade Habs acquire Kirby Dach

[GHT120]

10 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... Clearly Davidson had a good look at Dach and did not like what he saw ...

 

OR ... the Hawks have decided to go full-tear down ... which will perhaps encourage Kane, Toews, Jones and others to waive their NMC/NTCs and allow the Hawks to recoup more assets.

[dlbalr]

9 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

It seems to me that they are Hoping for Bedard and are heading for another rebuild.

 

That's exactly what they're doing.  This is an Arizona-style rebuild they're heading towards.

[hab29RETIRED]

6 hours ago, tomh009 said:

The 13th pick would have been a risk, too -- maybe only 70% chance of becoming an NHL regular.

I would rather have picked a Nazar, Kemell, Pickering, or even a more risky pick like Miroshnichenko. Dach has not shown YET that he is a legit top 6 guy. The hawks themselves traded a 21 year old Dach and picked Nazar other thr ouck they received. That doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence. The interview I saw with him inspired even less confidence. Maybe he is just a laid back guy, but first impression want great.  
 

If Dach only becomes an NHL regular like Armia, we lost the deal. At 13, I want a difference maker, I’d rather risk on the guy drafted kid not making it than get another Armia.

 

hopefully it works out, and he becomes worthy of being drafted 3rd overall, but right now he looks to be even behind the development path of the other three #3 overall picks we’ve had playing for us.

[GHT120]

Interestingly (?) the Hawks still have Colton Dach on an ELC signed he was drafted last year. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

15 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

They didn’t like Debrincat either?

 

It seems to me that they are Hoping for Bedard and are heading for another rebuild. 
 

I sense a Buffalo level of incompetence for Chicago

 

Also possible. The fact that they traded Debrincat does suggest that something beyond player evaluation is going on: an all-out tank for Bédard, or else a petty “clean sweep” mentality by a GM who either wants a team of “his guys,” or maybe he is an old-school jackass who thinks there is a “culture problem” with the kids on his club.

 

Chicago fans are probably OK with the deal because they get Nazar out of it. But if Dach (who is much bigger than Nazar) becomes the better player - and especially if he succeeds and Nazar flops - it will become Exhibit A that Davidson is incompetent. There’s some risk on their side for sure.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

11 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

They didn’t like Debrincat either?

 

It seems to me that they are Hoping for Bedard and are heading for another rebuild. 
 

I sense a Buffalo level of incompetence for Chicago

 

Yes, it seems like a "tank" going on in Chicago,  especially when you are trading your leading goal scorer who is only 24. 

 

Anyway, Dach will be getting a fresh start in Montreal.  It's basically a Romanov for Dach trade.  Let's see how he develops under St. Louis, he is only 21. 

[hab29RETIRED]

3 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

That's exactly what they're doing.  This is an Arizona-style rebuild they're heading towards.

Yeah - that’s pretty obvious that they want to reboot with elite talent, and are trying to get a generational player as part of that rebuild.
 

But it doesn’t make sense to trade a 21 year old. I get trading DiBrincat as a way to get Kane to waive his NTC, but I don’t get trading a 21 year old who is wary in his development stage - unless they see issues with him.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 minute ago, hab29RETIRED said:

 I get trading DiBrincat as a way to get Kane to waive his NTC, 

 

Really, you would trade a 40 goal scorer who is just 24 just to encourage Kane to waive his NTC? 

[hab29RETIRED]

3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Also possible. The fact that they traded Debrincat does suggest that something beyond player evaluation is going on: an all-out tank for Bédard, or else a petty “clean sweep” mentality by a GM who either wants a team of “his guys,” or maybe he is an old-school jackass who thinks there is a “culture problem” with the kids on his club.

 

Chicago fans are probably OK with the deal because they get Nazar out of it. But if Dach (who is much bigger than Nazar) becomes the better player - and especially if he succeeds and Nazar flops - it will become Exhibit A that Davidson is incompetent. There’s some risk on their side for sure.

Well let’s hope for our sake Davidson is incompetent. But he did pick up a hell of a lot of picks and got a lot of good prospects to rebuild with. Unless there are serious issues with Debrincat, or he was moved so they force Kane’s hand in wanting out, I don’t get trading a 24 year old that would be a great fit to play with a Bedard.

[hab29RETIRED]

3 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Really, you would trade a 40 goal scorer who is just 24 just to encourage Kane to waive his NTC? 

I wouldn’t, I’m just saying that’s that may be their way of pushing him out. They’ve said that they won’t ask Kane and Toews to waive their NT-ac - would get get crucified by fans and media on forcing out legends. But it’s a way to solve the potential PR nightmare if they tried forcing them out. Hell Savard refused to trade Lafleur and forced him to retire because he was afraid of the back lash - and getting killed!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 minute ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Well let’s hope for our sake Davidson is incompetent. But he did pick up a hell of a lot of picks and got a lot of good prospects to rebuild with. Unless there are serious issues with Debrincat, or he was moved so they force Kane’s hand in wanting out, I don’t get trading a 24 year old that would be a great fit to play with a Bedard.

 

Precisely because it doesn’t make sense - and “forcing Kane’s hand” is not a valid reason for trading a 24-year-old stud IMHO - I think we should seriously consider the hypothesis that Davidson is incompetent in one fashion or another (e.g,  either he is over-tanking, leaving Bédard with no one to play with, or he is fire-bombing his roster for stupid reasons). If so, that bodes well for us.

 

Chicago has been a mess for a while, and Davidson came up within that system, so I definitely wouldn’t rule it out. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

Hughes on Dach, obviously he did a lot of homework ahead of time. 

 

"We were looking to improve and get a little faster in the middle of the ice. There's also, in a perfect world, an age component to it that he can grow with our young corps, and certainly he fit that description for us. We knew that he was available potentially, so we spent a good amount of time trying to understand who he was. We spoke to a lot of people in and around Chicago associated with the team, even to the extent of speaking with Justin Barron today, who was with him at the World Juniors, just to make sure we understood who the player was. We're going to invest money in developing hockey players and try to get the most out of their potential. We believe that Kirby has significant potential and we're hopeful that with the Montreal Canadiens we can bring him along and get him to a point where he's a pretty special centerman."

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

One thing that struck me after reading Hughes's comments about Dach is that they had been doing research for a while. Leads me to believe that perhaps Slafkofvsky has been their guy for a while as they likely don't make that trade if they are drafting a center.  Or they were just keeping all options open just in case they changed their mind from Wright to Slafkovsky. 

[alfredoh2009]

17 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If Dach isn’t at least a good 2nd line centre we lost the trade. If all he does is replace Poehling or Armia, we lose the deal. We would have been better off using the 13th pick.

 

if there are character/maturity issues, hopefully the trade is a wake up call.

 

I think Dach will be fine. I think he will turn out to be as good a Danault but only if the Habs coaching staff brings him along correctly.

I broken wrist is a good enough reason for me to dismiss some of his poor numbers.

[Sir_Boagalott]

  

9 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

But it doesn’t make sense to trade a 21 year old. I get trading DiBrincat as a way to get Kane to waive his NTC, but I don’t get trading a 21 year old who is wary in his development stage - unless they see issues with him.

 

Thats exactly how I tend to view it too.  It doesn't really make sense because they haven't given Dach enough of a chance to be writing him off quite yet.

 

 

9 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

thinks there is a “culture problem” with the kids on his club.

 

Chicago fans are probably OK with the deal because they get Nazar out of it. But if Dach (who is much bigger than Nazar) becomes the better player - and especially if he succeeds and Nazar flops - it will become Exhibit A that Davidson is incompetent. There’s some risk on their side for sure.

 

 

I wonder if their young players had a culture issue, but dumping DeBrincat could be strictly financial.  

 

I honestly have no idea why the Hawks signed Jones.  They had enough high paid guys to begin with, so why turn your team into the Leafs by signing another 1?  Thats 1 of the main reason why I'm anti-tank theory.  You can easily end up with numerous elite talent guys than what you can possibly afford.  

 

If the Hawks have determined that Dach is a potential problem, then there could be more risk in keeping him.  I've noticed 3-4 things that make me believe that he has a problem thats listed in the DSM-5 Handbook.  It isnt something that scouts, analysts, or Hughes likely would have figured out either.

 

However, there are a lot of players that would have that same issue and they often work out.  Unfortunately, there are definitely players with that issue that do not.  i.e. not all players are easily coachable, if at all; and he might be the type that isn't.  

[dlbalr]

46 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 I wonder if their young players had a culture issue, but dumping DeBrincat could be strictly financial.  

 

I honestly have no idea why the Hawks signed Jones.  They had enough high paid guys to begin with, so why turn your team into the Leafs by signing another 1?  Thats 1 of the main reason why I'm anti-tank theory.  You can easily end up with numerous elite talent guys than what you can possibly afford. 

 

DeBrincat - He's a year away from a $9M qualifying offer, two years away from UFA status.  What are the odds he stays for an Arizona-style rebuild and signs a long-term extension?  If you think they're zero, trade him now when his value is at its peak.

 

Jones - He was acquired by Stan Bowman who thought adding him and Fleury would get Chicago back into playoff contention.  That didn't happen and now the new GM is stuck with that contract for a while but remains committed to blowing things up.

[DON]

Comments just after 2019 draft.

3. Chicago Blackhawks - Kirby Dach, C, Saskatoon (WHL)

NHL Central Scouting: No. 3 (North American skaters)

 

Dach, who considers himself more of a pass-first than shoot-first forward, was third for Saskatoon with 73 points (25 goals, 48 assists), second with 23 power-play assists and first with 1.18 points per game in 62 games. The right-handed shot is smart on both sides of the puck, deceptively fast, has good vision, and can beat opponents wide. Dach (6-4, 198) played center in Saskatoon but won a Hlinka Gretzky Cup championship with Canada in August playing right wing and had seven points (two goals, five assists) in five games.

 

NHL.com analysis: The center skates well for a player his size. He might need one more season of junior hockey, but his size and skill could make him a solid second-line center behind Jonathan Toews as soon as next season.

[DON]

Dach is a RFA, what kind of salary will he demand?

[Habsfan89]

We finally have a big boy line 

 

Slaf  - Dach  - Anderson 😧

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

Another article on Dach

 

https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/07/09/montreal-canadiens-nhl-pro-scout-marty-may-be-the-best-thing-to-happen-for-dach/

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Dach is a RFA, what kind of salary will he demand?

 

That's a great question. I have no idea. I am guessing it won't be a long term contract. 

[Sir_Boagalott]

2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

DeBrincat - He's a year away from a $9M qualifying offer, two years away from UFA status.  What are the odds he stays for an Arizona-style rebuild and signs a long-term extension?  If you think they're zero, trade him now when his value is at its peak.

 

Jones - He was acquired by Stan Bowman who thought adding him and Fleury would get Chicago back into playoff contention.  That didn't happen and now the new GM is stuck with that contract for a while but remains committed to blowing things up.

 

I know DeBrincant will be getting $9M+ and they cant afford that.  It was terrible idea for them to get Jones and his contract is terrible amount and length.  The Hawks were putting a ton of pressure of Dach, attempting to be a playoff team and basically relying on him to get them there.  Chicago hasn't exactly been a happy place to be for a while now so there might be some truth in the old cliche of a change of scenery could be just what he needs.

 

  

23 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

We finally have a big boy line 

 

Slaf  - Dach  - Anderson 😧

 

Ya, with Edmundson and Petry on d.   The other line would be:  Caufield, Byron, and Gally, with Wideman and Schuneman on d.  🤪

 

[Sir_Boagalott]

4 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Another article on Dach

 

https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/07/09/montreal-canadiens-nhl-pro-scout-marty-may-be-the-best-thing-to-happen-for-dach/

 

Thats a good article.

 

Dach could totally flop, or as some have mentioned 2C, but there is a chance that he could become better than Suzuki and be 1C; which would be nuts.  Time will tell if this was bad or absolutely bloody brilliant. 

 

I'm shocked by @Commandant.  He sure is showing a ton of restraint.  I thought for sure that he would bring up the last time the Habs made a deal with Chicago for a player the Hawks picked in the 1st rnd and how that trade turned out. 

 

 

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Thats a good article.

 

Dach could totally flop, or as some have mentioned 2C, but there is a chance that he could become better than Suzuki and be 1C; which would be nuts.  Time will tell if this was bad or absolutely bloody brilliant. 

 

I'm shocked by @Commandant.  He sure is showing a ton of restraint.  I thought for sure that he would bring up the last time the Habs made a deal with Chicago for a player the Hawks picked in the 1st rnd and how that trade turned out. 

 

 

 

Both teams have different GMs.  The previous trade, while a big win for montreal, is completely irrelevant to analyzing this trade.

 

If it was Marc Bergevin and Stan Bowman making another trade, then yes, let's talk about that.  But HuGo and Davidson is a totally new scenario.

 

It means as much as predicting a 2021 playoff series between the Leafs and Habs based on the last time they played each other in the playoffs (1979).  None of the players are the same so it has no impact.

[dlbalr]

11 hours ago, DON said:

Dach is a RFA, what kind of salary will he demand?

 

I think it'll be a three-year bridge deal (five years of team control left means they can safely go three years) with something in the $2.5M-$3M range.