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If #31 is done: should the Habs retire his number?


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Should the Habs retire Price’s number?  

16 members have voted

  1. 1. Does #31 belong in the rafters?

    • Yes
      9
    • No
      7


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14 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Forgot to address this ... it would not be a decision not to retire Price's number, it would be a decision not to retire any more numbers period ... I would suggest that players have to have been retired for a fixed number of seasons before being honoured (I would say 3-5) ... and if we don't want to totally eliminate the retirement of numbers then allow for that possibility 10-15 years after the number has been honoured ... it would make the decision to retire numbers less "emotional" ... if 13-20 years (using my suggested time frames) after a players' retirement (not restricted to Price) they are still considered worthy of having their number retired that would in indicate to me that they are at very least "Tier 2 Greats", and maybe even amongst the Elite Greats ... BTW, I would make that trio a quartet and include Morenz.

 

Good post. Yes, there should be a meaningful delay. In Price’s case, that delay will be at least four years, since he won’t be officially “retired” until 2026.

 

20 years seems excessive to me; 10 years since the guy last stepped onto the ice seems like a satisfying number. Enough time that the player’s contribution is still relatively fresh in the minds of the fanbase, but a seemly interval for reflection. On this logic, #31 would be retired around 2032. Doing it in 2029 for the organization’s 120th anniversary would be fine with me, however, and if it’s going to get done, I suspect that will be when it happens.

 

I’m not sure I see the imperative to cease and desist all jersey retirements. I think the flood of 2009 may create a distorted impression that we are at risk of the roof caving in from endless retirements, but that is an optical illusion created by the rush to recognize past greats from the dynasty eras. No Hab of the past 30 years has seriously been in the “rafters” conversation except Price. At that rate, we will have three more added (including #31) by 2090…hardly a crazy surplus.

 

As for Morenz - yep, agreed. First Habs superstar, dominant player of his era, died tragically no less. He definitely has the mythic aura I talk about. 

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12 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... I’m not sure I see the imperative to cease and desist all jersey retirements. I think the flood of 2009 may create a distorted impression that we are at risk of the roof caving in from endless retirements, but that is an optical illusion created by the rush to recognize past greats from the dynasty eras. No Hab of the past 30 years has seriously been in the “rafters” conversation except Price. At that rate, we will have three more added (including #31) by 2090…hardly a crazy surplus ...

 

 

We can agree to disagree ... personally, I am hoping that the pool of potential "rafter-dwellers" is higher in the next 30 years than the last 30.

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31 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Good post. Yes, there should be a meaningful delay. In Price’s case, that delay will be at least four years, since he won’t be officially “retired” until 2026.

 

20 years seems excessive to me; 10 years since the guy last stepped onto the ice seems like a satisfying number. Enough time that the player’s contribution is still relatively fresh in the minds of the fanbase, but a seemly interval for reflection. On this logic, #31 would be retired around 2032. Doing it in 2029 for the organization’s 120th anniversary would be fine with me, however, and if it’s going to get done, I suspect that will be when it happens.

 

I’m not sure I see the imperative to cease and desist all jersey retirements. I think the flood of 2009 may create a distorted impression that we are at risk of the roof caving in from endless retirements, but that is an optical illusion created by the rush to recognize past greats from the dynasty eras. No Hab of the past 30 years has seriously been in the “rafters” conversation except Price. At that rate, we will have three more added (including #31) by 2090…hardly a crazy surplus.

 

As for Morenz - yep, agreed. First Habs superstar, dominant player of his era, died tragically no less. He definitely has the mythic aura I talk about. 

Agree that useless we are lucky enough to have another Lafleur, Believeau, Richard type player, there should be a delay. I do think that 20 years is more than excessive and guys like Dryden and Robinson, as well as a lot of the players from the two dynasty years should have been retired a lot sooner. Doesn’t make sense to have someone close to their deathbed when they finally get retired.

 

I also don’t agree with a cease and desist in retirement. I’m hoping we start having another 4 or 5 players over the next decade that bring us some cups and are the type of players deserving to get there jerseys retired when they are done!

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I wasn't advocating for 20 years ... I had suggested 3-5 years post-retirement for honouring a sweater and then 10-15 years after that before retirement can be considered (***if*** that option is retained) ... both were just illustrative in nature

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34 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I wasn't advocating for 20 years ... I had suggested 3-5 years post-retirement for honouring a sweater and then 10-15 years after that before retirement can be considered (***if*** that option is retained) ... both were just illustrative in nature


I actually liked your proposal. It address both sides of the argument. 
 

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  • 2 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Say it ain't so, Carey.

 

I'm a bit leery of posting this in case the discussion careens into incivility and antagonism, but Price committed a huge PR blunder here. What the Puck: Price diminishes Canadiens' positive vibe this season | Montreal Gazette

 

It's not his views on hunting rifles that are the problem, it's his amplification of, and stated support for, the CCFR, with its morally sickening celebration of a misogynist massacre. All he had to do was critique the bill without endorsing the group.

 

Should this affect his standing with the team? Not in the long run IMHO...but it would be good if he discreetly went away for a while. Sheesh.

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7 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Say it ain't so, Carey.

 

I'm a bit leery of posting this in case the discussion careens into incivility and antagonism, but Price committed a huge PR blunder here. What the Puck: Price diminishes Canadiens' positive vibe this season | Montreal Gazette

 

It's not his views on hunting rifles that are the problem, it's his amplification of, and stated support for, the CCFR, with its morally sickening celebration of a misogynist massacre. All he had to do was critique the bill without endorsing the group.

 

Should this affect his standing with the team? Not in the long run IMHO...but it would be good if he discreetly went away for a while. Sheesh.

I'm sure if he was aware of the horrible promo code, Price would not have stated his support. It's shocking that they would actually do that. Price as an indigenous citizen was raised hunting and fishing. Questioning the inclusion of multiple hunting rifles (many of which are single shot, break barrel or bolt action) is not an issue which warrants being canceled over. I strongly believe that, had he known of the promo code, he would not have announced his support.

   The timing with the poly anniversary is the other concern. Why did the government choose this time to slide in the ammendment with multiple hunting rifles? The timing was politically motivated. Most certainly.  Now  the media tears into CP for the timing of his opposition. Well played by the government. Introduce the ammendment a week before the anniversary. Any opposition will be labeled as insensitive.  

 

Edit. For the record, I am  disgusted that this organization would do something like use that promo code.

 

Retire his number. He meant no harm. He just likes hunting.

 

 

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8 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

All he had to do was critique the bill without endorsing the group.

Exactly! However, I wouldn't be surprised if the group approached him about putting a social media post out there.

 

Something tells me if he was still an active member of the team, this post never gets published.

 

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So the promo code was intentional to the massacre?

If so, thats one pretty f *cked up group.

 

Just ugly all round; but, Price is a big boy and stuck foot in mouth all by himself. 

(Habs PR folks didnt help the situation.)

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Just now, DON said:

So the promo code was intentional to the massacre?

If so, thats one pretty f *cked up group.

 

Just ugly all round; but, Price is a big boy and stuck foot in mouth all by himself. 

(Habs PR folks didnt help the situation.)

The whole story is that the poly group ( polysouvient sic) called out ccfr as gun trolls for selling merchandise to raise money.  Ccfr responded with the code. I believe the poly code was a response to the poly group calling them names. Either way it was horrible and disgusting. But I don't think it was a celebration of the massacre. The leader of that group is a right winged radical. She should have been removed years ago, but has support from many other radicals who contribute.

 

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37 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

The whole story is that the poly group ( polysouvient sic) called out ccfr as gun trolls for selling merchandise to raise money.  Ccfr responded with the code. I believe the poly code was a response to the poly group calling them names. Either way it was horrible and disgusting. But I don't think it was a celebration of the massacre. The leader of that group is a right winged radical. She should have been removed years ago, but has support from many other radicals who contribute.

 

Perhaps not "celebrating" the massacre but certainly mocking the group memorializing the massacre ... seems like a slippery slope to me.

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Price apologized the next day, wrote he didn’t know about the promo and contradicted the Habs PR by saying he knew of the anniversary. 
He apologized to anyone hurt by his post but snarked at the government for choosing the timing of the amendment 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Price apologized the next day, wrote he didn’t know about the promo and contradicted the Habs PR by saying he knew of the anniversary. 
He apologized to anyone hurt by his post but snarked at the government for choosing the timing of the amendment 

This all seems accurate. 

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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Price apologized the next day, wrote he didn’t know about the promo and contradicted the Habs PR by saying he knew of the anniversary. 
He apologized to anyone hurt by his post but snarked at the government for choosing the timing of the amendment 

 

I agree with what you said with the exception of the date of the anniversary.  Most people are probably similar to me, where I totally remember that incident, but I wouldn't be able to say what exact date it happened on.  When that shooting happened I was 13 yrs old but Price wasn't even 2 so its unlikely he'd remember the exact date.  

 

5 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

The whole story is that the poly group ( polysouvient sic) called out ccfr as gun trolls for selling merchandise to raise money.  Ccfr responded with the code. I believe the poly code was a response to the poly group calling them names. Either way it was horrible and disgusting. But I don't think it was a celebration of the massacre. The leader of that group is a right winged radical. She should have been removed years ago, but has support from many other radicals who contribute.

 

 

Thx for that, because I was certainly wondering why they used the promo poly.  The word poly means many, and most gun owners have more than 1, so I figured it might be related to that, and it might be.  I'd love to hear the ccfr's official explanation for using that promo code.  

 

Most people seem to jump to the conclusion that the ccfr are mocking the shooting itself, which is highly doubtful.  That would be despicable and an outright nutbar stance to take for a anti-gun control group.  That would piss a lot of people off and would lead to more people being onboard for more gun control which is the opposite of what a pro gun group wants.  

 

 

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I am like you @Sir_Boagalott, I do not remember the exact date.

I was at the beginning of my engineering undergrad. 
I remember it was the end of the semester and that I it made me sick to my stomach, specially when one of the reporters (TVA?) filmed the cafeteria through a window live. I could not believe it!

 

I was not at Polytechnique, so it did not affect me as much. But the next semester we got a few teachers and students transfer and hearing how they felt made me really sad.


It is still a sad fealing every year in early December

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  • 2 weeks later...

As much as I loved Price, I don't think his number should be retired. In my book; No cup, no jersey retirement! Unless you dominate your position sooooo much that you just can't get around it. (ie: à la Hasek who 6 vezina trophies)  Carey only won 1 Vezina trophy.   I agree that the year he did win it (2014-15) he was VERY dominant, but there were too many years during his career where Carey wasn't dominant. He was surfing on his reputation.

 

Again, I know that for me to say that he hasn't won a cup would automatically eliminate him... and that isn't fair. I am also aware that during his 15 years in Montreal, he only ever had one single player who managed to score more that 1 point per game. (Kovalev 2008) But at some point, I think we need to draw the line somewhere. If we start retiring the numbers of guys who haven't won the cup(Koivu, Markov, Pacioretty), sooner rather than later, there won't be any numbers left for the current guys to use! ;) 

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With 32 teams in the league now, winning the cup may be too high a bar. But, as you say, need to show something else, then, in order to get your number retired. Caufield scoring 50 or 60 in a season, for example? That's nice, but unless he does that consistently over the longer term, that still doesn't merit the retirement of a number.

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11 hours ago, Habsfan said:

As much as I loved Price, I don't think his number should be retired. In my book; No cup, no jersey retirement! Unless you dominate your position sooooo much that you just can't get around it. (ie: à la Hasek who 6 vezina trophies)  Carey only won 1 Vezina trophy.   I agree that the year he did win it (2014-15) he was VERY dominant, but there were too many years during his career where Carey wasn't dominant. He was surfing on his reputation.

 

Again, I know that for me to say that he hasn't won a cup would automatically eliminate him... and that isn't fair. I am also aware that during his 15 years in Montreal, he only ever had one single player who managed to score more that 1 point per game. (Kovalev 2008) But at some point, I think we need to draw the line somewhere. If we start retiring the numbers of guys who haven't won the cup(Koivu, Markov, Pacioretty), sooner rather than later, there won't be any numbers left for the current guys to use! ;) 

 

Good post, although I disagree. I’ve said my piece on this, so I won’t belabour the point, but it’s quite unfair to Price to lump him in even with guys as admirable as Markov or Koivu (or Patches, who is less then either). Price was next level. It puzzles me that people can’t see this. Even in his dotage, on one hip/knee, he led us to within three games of the Cup.

 

An appropriate analogue for Price, even if you’re a Price-skeptic, is Henrik Lundqvist. Their careers are quite similar, even in terms of individual awards - except that Lundqvist never had a season as superhuman as 2014-15. Lundqvist was considered a shoo-in for jersey retirement in NY; for that matter, I heard him described in passing as “one of the greatest goalies of all time” by a commentator the other day. It doesn’t follow that the Rags’ rafters are going to be collapsing under the weight of retired jerseys any time soon. 

 

Now one could reply that the Rangers are one thing, the Habs another. But all that argument really does is collapse back into the claim that you can’t get your jersey retired here without a Cup - effectively punishing Price for having crap teams all those years.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Am still on fence, or dont have strong feeling one way or other.


Im on the fence too and I’m not bothered one way or the other but why does Price deserve to be retired?
 

I’ve heard why he shouldn’t be retired but what is the argument for retirement?

 

Price had one outstanding/ epic season where he won lots of awards. He had some mediocre seasons and several great seasons. 
 

Is he being retired because of that one truly incredible season? Price is a great player but was he exceptional, beyond his peers for his whole career?

 

Was Price a Lemieux, Gretzky, Lafleur level above his peers for his career?

 

Again I don’t care either way but it’s tough for me to square the circle 

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On 12/17/2022 at 7:07 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Good post, although I disagree. I’ve said my piece on this, so I won’t belabour the point, but it’s quite unfair to Price to lump him in even with guys as admirable as Markov or Koivu (or Patches, who is less then either). Price was next level. It puzzles me that people can’t see this. Even in his dotage, on one hip/knee, he led us to within three games of the Cup.

 

An appropriate analogue for Price, even if you’re a Price-skeptic, is Henrik Lundqvist. Their careers are quite similar, even in terms of individual awards - except that Lundqvist never had a season as superhuman as 2014-15. Lundqvist was considered a shoo-in for jersey retirement in NY; for that matter, I heard him described in passing as “one of the greatest goalies of all time” by a commentator the other day. It doesn’t follow that the Rags’ rafters are going to be collapsing under the weight of retired jerseys any time soon. 

 

Now one could reply that the Rangers are one thing, the Habs another. But all that argument really does is collapse back into the claim that you can’t get your jersey retired here without a Cup - effectively punishing Price for having crap teams all those years.

I’ve gone back and forth on this. He is a no brainer hall of famer, but not sure about jersey retirement. Theadore also won a Hart, while playing on much worse teams. Does that also put Theadore in the conversation? Chelios and Subban won Norris trophies. Now all three of them spent a lot of years playeinh for other teams, but Chelios was a co-captain, won a cup and A Norris with Montreal, and played only 1 or 2 years less with the team than Roy. He also played in one other cup final. So is there an argument to be made for him?

 

I wouldn’t be upset either way, but I don’t think it’s a slam dunk Lafleur, Robinson, Dryden, Gainey, Savard case for jersey retirement. Shutt’s jersey isn’t retired. I do think if he does have his jersey retired, he should have to wait at least 5 years after his OFFICIAL retirement from the league, and definitely after he is getting inducted into the HOF.

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