Our strengths and weaknesses have flip-flopped!

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

You expect dominance based on what though?  This was a weak draft class.  Top guys from top draft classes go in and dominate.  Top guys from weaker draft classes that make the jump typically struggle and don't produce much.  Look at Lafreniere and Kakko as recent examples of that, guys that were at or near the top of their draft that were expected to produce right away and instead didn't do a whole lot.  Slafkovsky is closer to that level of talent right now. 

 

If you want him in a scoring role to start the season where he'll have a chance at success, Laval is the right spot for him.

preach, brother, preach !

🙏

[tomh009]

21 hours ago, Commandant said:

Drouin - Suzuki - Caufield

Dadonov - Dach - Anderson

Slafkovsky - Dvorak - Gallagher

Hoffman - Evans - Armia

I'd go with the Commandant's proposal. Suzuki and Caufield are best served by a playmaker (Drouin) rather than the powerhorse.

 

Many question marks on the other lines yet (Dadonov, Dach, Slafkovsky as well as the 2022 versions of Gallagher, Hoffman and Armia) so I do expect this to evolve over the first 10-20 games before (hopefully) stabilizing.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

You expect dominance based on what though?  This was a weak draft class.  Top guys from top draft classes go in and dominate.  Top guys from weaker draft classes that make the jump typically struggle and don't produce much.  Look at Lafreniere and Kakko as recent examples of that, guys that were at or near the top of their draft that were expected to produce right away and instead didn't do a whole lot.  Slafkovsky is closer to that level of talent right now. 

 

If you want him in a scoring role to start the season where he'll have a chance at success, Laval is the right spot for 

 

Your intelligent post is likely what will happen and perhaps he will dominate down in Laval. 
 

My entire hope in the kid is about his attitude, his swagger. He is the kind of person that will fight through anything because he believes he will win.  
 

I can’t wait to see how he does

[TurdBurglar]

The biggest advantage Slafkovsky has over Lafreniere and Kakko is his size.  Most kids drafted struggle at the NHL level early unless they have game breaking talent or until they bulk up.  Slafkovsky is the first first overall pick in recent memory with size and skill.  This is not to say he shouldn't spend a year in the AHL, this is just pointing out his transition could possibly be easier due to his size.

[Commandant]

2 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

The biggest advantage Slafkovsky has over Lafreniere and Kakko is his size.  Most kids drafted struggle at the NHL level early unless they have game breaking talent or until they bulk up.  Slafkovsky is the first first overall pick in recent memory with size and skill.  This is not to say he shouldn't spend a year in the AHL, this is just pointing out his transition could possibly be easier due to his size.

 

Slaf is 6'4... kaako is 6'3.... lafreniere 6'2.

 

They are all comparable size.  

[GHT120]

13 hours ago, dlbalr said:

... This was a weak draft class ...

 

Time will tell ... it did not have any generational talent(s) at the top-end, but my impression going in was that it was more average than weak.

 

 

[GHT120]

8 hours ago, Commandant said:

Slaf is 6'4... kaako is 6'3.... lafreniere 6'2.

 

They are all comparable size.  

 

Height-wise yes ... but, per current roster data, Slafkovsky is 15 pounds heavier than Kaako (2019 draft) and 22 heavier than Lafreniere (2020 draft) ... IMO he is physically more prepared entering the NHL than were the other two ... but would like him to have at least a long-stint in Laval to acclimate to the NHL style of play and rink-size ... and to be dominating play for an extended period of time before a call-up is considered ... but I want his long-term development prioritized over satisfying the interest of some to watch him play with the Habs.

[TurdBurglar]

9 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Slaf is 6'4... kaako is 6'3.... lafreniere 6'2.

 

They are all comparable size.  

Slafkovsky 6’4 218lbs, Kakko 6’2 194lbs, and Lafreniere 6’1 193lbs at their draft according to NHL.com.  

This is also in a league where generally every prospect has to bulk up from their draft year.  Slafkovsky has at least 2 inches and 20 lbs on the 2 comparable, when bulking up is considered adding 10-15lbs.  Kakko is listed at 6’3 205lbs and Lafreniere is listed at 6’2 196lbs now according to hockeydb.com, 2 and 3 years respectively in the NHL.

[GHT120]

7 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

Slafkovsky 6’4 218lbs, Kakko 6’2 194lbs, and Lafreniere 6’1 193lbs at their draft according to NHL.com.  

This is also in a league where generally every prospect has to bulk up from their draft year.  Slafkovsky has at least 2 inches and 20 lbs on the 2 comparable, when bulking up is considered adding 10-15lbs.  Kakko is listed at 6’3 205lbs and Lafreniere is listed at 6’2 196lbs now according to hockeydb.com, 2 and 3 years respectively in the NHL.

Totally agree

[alfredoh2009]

🤔

Xhekaj is big, I wonder if he’ll start with the Habs and dominated with his physical presence ? 

 

(Just messing around…)

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

42 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

🤔

Xhekaj is big, I wonder if he’ll start with the Habs and dominated with his physical presence ? 

 

(Just messing around…)

 

I know that you are kidding but Xhekaj relies on his size and savageness while Slafkovsky relies on his skill which is strengthened by his size. 
 

Slaf will get his 9 games and if he struggles or has major holes in his game then Laval it will be. 
 

I’m just excited to watch him play - first overall picks don’t come often. 

[GHT120]

3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

... Slaf will get his 9 games and if he struggles or has major holes in his game then Laval it will be ...

 

It occurs to me that they might want to make the decision as quickly as possible into the season (or perhaps even before) so that he could (potentially) still get some NHL games at the end of the season without going over 9 games total that impact his ELC.

[Sir_Boagalott]

7 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Height-wise yes ... but, per current roster data, Slafkovsky is 15 pounds heavier than Kaako (2019 draft) and 22 heavier than Lafreniere (2020 draft) ... IMO he is physically more prepared entering the NHL than were the other two ... but would like him to have at least a long-stint in Laval to acclimate to the NHL style of play and rink-size ... and to be dominating play for an extended period of time before a call-up is considered ... but I want his long-term development prioritized over satisfying the interest of some to watch him play with the Habs.

 

Not sure where you get the 15 lbs from, because didn't the Habs weigh him at 227 lbs?  i.e. he's almost 30 lbs heavier than both of them when they were drafted.  I absolutely agree with you and @TurdBurglar though.  Slaf is way above average size and that of typical draftees and that should help him make the adjustment.

 

I agree with a lot of the he should play AHL comments but thats for a typical draftee, but there is nothing typical about Slaf at all though.  Its untypical for 17 years olds to play in the Worlds and Olympics and dominate. 

 

There is another interesting aspect too.  I watched the Habs pre-draft interview questions and they asked Slaf how old he was when he moved out of his parents house and his answer was 15.  Typically over here you'd play CHL at 16, and live with billets who'd cook your food.  Well, 15 y/o Slaf lived by himself and cooked his own food. 

 

Slaf might be 2-3 years younger than Caufield, Suzuki, and Dach but he's been living on his own and cooking his own food for just as long or longer than they have.  He is definitely way more mature for his age than most other draft picks.

[GHT120]

5 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Not sure where you get the 15 lbs from, because didn't the Habs weigh him at 227 lbs? ...

 

 

From the Canadiens' website

[Sir_Boagalott]

30 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

From the Canadiens' website

 

Thx, thats interesting.  I knew the Habs said he wasn't 6'4" but I didnt see that he was that much lighter. 

 

Quoted from the Montreal Canadiens Select Juraj Slafkovsky thread:

 

On 7/11/2022 at 4:47 PM, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

 

That drives me crazy because its often that I see different height and weights listed for players and then I have no idea which stats are more current and right.  Sites should state their drafted height and weight plus have their current weight.    That way 5-10 years after their draft year it would be easy to know how much weight they've put on. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

59 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Not sure where you get the 15 lbs from, because didn't the Habs weigh him at 227 lbs?  i.e. he's almost 30 lbs heavier than both of them when they were drafted.  I absolutely agree with you and @TurdBurglar though.  Slaf is way above average size and that of typical draftees and that should help him make the adjustment.

 

I agree with a lot of the he should play AHL comments but thats for a typical draftee, but there is nothing typical about Slaf at all though.  Its untypical for 17 years olds to play in the Worlds and Olympics and dominate. 

 

There is another interesting aspect too.  I watched the Habs pre-draft interview questions and they asked Slaf how old he was when he moved out of his parents house and his answer was 15.  Typically over here you'd play CHL at 16, and live with billets who'd cook your food.  Well, 15 y/o Slaf lived by himself and cooked his own food. 

 

Slaf might be 2-3 years younger than Caufield, Suzuki, and Dach but he's been living on his own and cooking his own food for just as long or longer than they have.  He is definitely way more mature for his age than most other draft picks.

 

Agree with your points. He is definitely more mature than the average 18year old, being on your own at 15 will do that to you. At 227 lbs it certainly doesn't look like he is carrying much fat, he will be a load to handle when he is fully mature. Would prefer they don't use up a year of his ELC and he spends a lot of time in the AHL but I have a sneaking suspicion that he will force his way onto the roster. 

[dlbalr]

1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Thx, thats interesting.  I knew the Habs said he wasn't 6'4" but I didnt see that he was that much lighter. 

 

Quoted from the Montreal Canadiens Select Juraj Slafkovsky thread:

 

 

That drives me crazy because its often that I see different height and weights listed for players and then I have no idea which stats are more current and right.  Sites should state their drafted height and weight plus have their current weight.    That way 5-10 years after their draft year it would be easy to know how much weight they've put on. 

 

The NHL team sites update the bios usually once a year at most.  I imagine the updates will come a little after training camp.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

4 hours ago, GHT120 said:

It occurs to me that they might want to make the decision as quickly as possible into the season (or perhaps even before) so that he could (potentially) still get some NHL games at the end of the season without going over 9 games total that impact his ELC.

I think they go this route if Slaf struggles a bit or at least isn’t dominant at training camp. 
 

It makes smart developmental sense to start him in Laval and call him up later. 
 

Unless…Slaf dominates and I hope he dominates 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The Habs have a history of bringing up highly hyped prospects very early. It’s one of the defining characteristics of the era of mediocrity that has succeeded the Roy years. We did it with Ribeiro, Price, Galchenyuk, and Kotkaniemi, along with others here and there like Mete. The sugar high of rookie hype has long been too hard for the Habs’ organization to resist.

 

We usually hear that such players are the “exception to the rule.” But even Price had some real struggles early in his career and came within a hair of being traded away, surpassed by Halak. As the aforementioned list implies, it has not worked out very well.

 

Sure, if Slaf kills in preseason, keep him up provisionally. But we should absolutely not be afraid to send him down. I don’t want another KK situation, where the kid plays well with a burst of rookie enthusiasm, then spends the last two thirds of the season flatlining.

 

I will take it as a sign that HughGort are serious if they let Slaf learn to dominate against men in the AHL before throwing him into the deep end.

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... I will take it as a sign that HughGort are serious if they let Slaf learn to dominate against men in the AHL before throwing him into the deep end.

 

👍

[alfredoh2009]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

[...]

I will take it as a sign that HughGort are serious if they let Slaf learn to dominate against men in the AHL before throwing him into the deep end.

 

that is a bold statement!

I do not mind either way with Slafkovsky: playing sheltered minutes in Montreal or going full pin in Laval: as long as there is a plan to develop him in either place. I will not be impressed if they "let the players force the hand" 

[REV-G]

20 hours ago, GHT120 said:

It occurs to me that they might want to make the decision as quickly as possible into the season (or perhaps even before) so that he could (potentially) still get some NHL games at the end of the season without going over 9 games total that impact his ELC.

I don't see why we would keep him in the NHL. Give him 9 games then send him to Laval and tell him ahead of time this will be the plan. Let him and his buddy Meser (sp?) hang out a bit and let them develop.

 

This year we should all be focused on developing players not on winning. I think everyone sees what HUGO is building and how so why rush young guys that we're excited about. We've all seen the results.

 

I kind of remember some coach saying something like he'd never met a player who was hurt by going to or staying in the AHL a bit longer. We should not rush him. Let him develop and hopefully begin to dominate in the AHL. If he tears it up then bring him up but don't leave him in the NHL right now. We don't need to this year. 

[GHT120]

48 minutes ago, REV-G said:

I don't see why we would keep him in the NHL. Give him 9 games then send him to Laval and tell him ahead of time this will be the plan ...

 

My point was that the fewer games he plays at the start of the season, the more games Slafkovsky can be given at the end of the season (or during the season for that matter) as a "reward" if he plays well, and still not burn a season of his ELC.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

18 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I think they go this route if Slaf struggles a bit or at least isn’t dominant at training camp. 
 

It makes smart developmental sense to start him in Laval and call him up later. 
 

Unless…Slaf dominates and I hope he dominates 

 

I tend to agree, the only way you keep him up is if he dominates, would love to see that happen but don't think it will happen. I think we all remember too clearly what happened with KK, an organization so badly wanting that #1 center that they overlooked the things he needed to work on especially needing to fill out and mature. No question that Slaf is bigger, stronger and more mature than KK at the same age but as mentioned previously, time in the AHL never hurt anybody plus there is no need to burn 1 year of his ELC. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

21 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I tend to agree, the only way you keep him up is if he dominates, would love to see that happen but don't think it will happen. I think we all remember too clearly what happened with KK, an organization so badly wanting that #1 center that they overlooked the things he needed to work on especially needing to fill out and mature. No question that Slaf is bigger, stronger and more mature than KK at the same age but as mentioned previously, time in the AHL never hurt anybody plus there is no need to burn 1 year of his ELC. 

I don’t think KK is a good comparison because he was skinny and had the drive and spirit of a scared kid 

 

Slaf is ~ 30 lbs heavier and he has the swagger of prime time Subban and the spirit and drive of Mike Tyson. 
 

I liked @GHT120 idea of putting him in Laval and calling him up late season instead of starting the season for 9 games in Montreal then going down. 
 

I would be thrilled if Slaf goes to Laval and destroys the league.