2022-23 NHL Discussion Thread

[DON]

Armia just dosent "seem" to; outwork anyone to win puck battles, forecheck aggressively, or put pucks on net. 

He is safe to put out there to generally check, or on the PK maybe (but the PK has sucked also?).

But, i think I would rather have Pezzetta out there instead...more entertaining at least and he will hit lots of folks.

[GHT120]

3 minutes ago, DON said:

Armia just dosent "seem" to; outwork anyone to win puck battles, forecheck aggressively, or put pucks on net. 

He is safe to put out there to generally check, or on the PK maybe (but the PK has sucked also?).

But, i think I would rather have Pezzetta out there instead...more entertaining at least and he will hit lots of folks.

AND about a quarter the cap hit ... although I'd prioritize RHP over Pezetta

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Pezetta is a prime example of a borderline player that fans of bad teams love. As the Habs improve, he should become superseded by more skilled players. That said, at least he is not a grossly overpaid do-nothing like Armia.

[DON]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Pezetta is a prime example of a borderline player that fans of bad teams love. As the Habs improve, he should become superseded by more skilled players. That said, at least he is not a grossly overpaid do-nothing like Armia.

Team needs NHL minimum salary players and seems contenders will swap in old vets (O'Reilly, Perry) once needed.

Fans like blue-coller hard working checkers or tough guys, who are the other end of the effort spectrum as a lazy Hoffman/Drouin/Brett Hull-types..

 

[GHT120]

Unless there are MAJOR roster changes, can Bowness return after this:

Kevin Cheveldayoff has his work cut out for him ... although he does have $12M in cap space to fill out 6/7 roster spots ... but amongst their 12 players with $2M+ cap hits, only PLD (pending RFA) is not under contract for next season ... AND ... they have 6/7 UFAs after next season ... PLD (if he signs for 1-yr), Wheeler, Scheifele, Niederreiter, Dillon, DeMelo and Hellebuyck ... sounds like a fun summer.

 

NOTE: Perhaps we now know why Paul Maurice left so unexpectedly.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

Unless there are MAJOR roster changes, can Bowness return after this:

Kevin Cheveldayoff has his work cut out for him ... although he does have $12M in cap space to fill out 6/7 roster spots ... but amongst their 12 players with $2M+ cap hits, only PLD (pending RFA) is not under contract for next season ... AND ... they have 6/7 UFAs after next season ... PLD (if he signs for 1-yr), Wheeler, Scheifele, Niederreiter, Dillon, DeMelo and Hellebuyck ... sounds like a fun summer.

 

NOTE: Perhaps we now know why Paul Maurice left so unexpectedly.

 

Cheveldayoff has a big decision to make, rebuild or go hard to win it next year. I think it's rebuild time in Winnipeg, get what you can for Scheifele, Dubois and Hellebuyck while they still have good market value and go with young guys. Trying to fill in spots with UFA's is not easy as Winnipeg is not a preferred destination. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Really shocking remarks from Bowness. 

 

For a seasoned coach like him to say that suggests a real problem with that group IMHO. I doubt he would have had that tantrum in the absence of long-running frustration with team culture. 

 

When you consider that Scheifle’s pointless and reprehensible assault on Evans basically kiboshed any chance they had of competing in that series in 2021, it seems fair to wonder whether their “leadership group” is at all up to snuff. 

 

This also raises questions about Dubious. He produced points in the series, but is he part of the problem? And if so, is it just that he’s soured on The Peg, or is he - as some fear - just a chronic “problem” player?

[dlbalr]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Really shocking remarks from Bowness.

 

Especially shocking considering the length of time that he has been there.  This isn't the culmination of years of frustration.  This time a year ago, he was still in Dallas.  To be that upset that fast is quite something.

[DON]

Didnt the last coach simply up and quit, so just passed on a shiteshow to Bowness?

[Commandant]

I think this is bad coaching by Bowness.  Isn't he the one who is supposed to motivate the players?

[Commandant]

Just now, DON said:

Didnt the last coach simply up and quit, so just passed on a shiteshow to Bowness?

 

Maurice resigned before getting fired. 

 

 

[DON]

Habs 3 stars;

 

https://www.habsworld.net/2023/04/hw-3-stars-the-stretch-run/

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Maurice resigned before getting fired. 

 

 

Based on Bowness’s outburst, I think he wants out, but wants to get fired, so he still gets paid.

 

I don’t think Bowness can completely be absolved of the blame himself either though. There is a reason Dallas doesn’t bring him back, and they are still good without him.  He’s been around forever, but until last year never accomplished much, or done anything to impress me.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

On 4/25/2023 at 11:18 AM, DON said:

Fans like blue-coller hard working checkers or tough guys, who are the other end of the effort spectrum as a lazy Hoffman/Drouin/Brett Hull-types..

 

 

Fan do like blue collar types but I would gladly take a player who is a little lazy if they could score like Brett Hull (741 career goals is not too shabby). 

[Sir_Boagalott]

4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Really shocking remarks from Bowness. 

 

For a seasoned coach like him to say that suggests a real problem with that group IMHO. I doubt he would have had that tantrum in the absence of long-running frustration with team culture. 

 

When you consider that Scheifle’s pointless and reprehensible assault on Evans basically kiboshed any chance they had of competing in that series in 2021, it seems fair to wonder whether their “leadership group” is at all up to snuff. 

 

This also raises questions about Dubious. He produced points in the series, but is he part of the problem? And if so, is it just that he’s soured on The Peg, or is he - as some fear - just a chronic “problem” player?

 

It is shocking to hear, but it isnt really shocking at the same time.  There has been a major problem in the Jets locker room for quite a while now.  Apparently, according to rumours I have read it is Scheifle and I believe Wheeler that are the entire issue.  Either way, it isn't Dubois; and that can be realized when you consider Laine was essentially chased out of Winnipeg - and for no good reason. 

 

It is also directly related to why Maurice quit too.  He realized what was going on but was unable to do anything about it because the players doing it are some of their best players.  Numerous their top players are toxic and cancerous to the group.  The GM is the 1 that needs to get rid of them but because they are key guys its hard to get rid of them.  Plus, they'd have to rebuild.  

 

I would say that its similar to when the Habs dressing room had the issue between the Francophones vs the Anglophones.  There are similar cliques within the Jets room that are not getting along.  

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

6 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

It is shocking to hear, but it isnt really shocking at the same time.  There has been a major problem in the Jets locker room for quite a while now.  Apparently, according to rumours I have read it is Scheifle and I believe Wheeler that are the entire issue.  Either way, it isn't Dubois; and that can be realized when you consider Laine was essentially chased out of Winnipeg - and for no good reason. 

 

It is also directly related to why Maurice quit too.  He realized what was going on but was unable to do anything about it because the players doing it are some of their best players.  Numerous their top players are toxic and cancerous to the group.  The GM is the 1 that needs to get rid of them but because they are key guys its hard to get rid of them.  Plus, they'd have to rebuild.  

 

I would say that its similar to when the Habs dressing room had the issue between the Francophones vs the Anglophones.  There are similar cliques within the Jets room that are not getting along.  

 

Cool analysis and very interesting, thanks.

 

I’ll never forget the 1992 team. A structurally strong club with amazing goaltending, it finished close to the top of the standings, but once the playoffs started, the team was *completely* inert. “Totally out of it” was how Dick Irvin described it in his colour commentary. They barely squeaked past a grossly inferior Whalers team before crapping out completely in the second round and being swept ignominiously by the hated Bruins.

 

That was the team riven with internal discord, as you describe.

 

Fortunately Savard was able to swing some bold deals and reconfigure the team with Damphousse and Bellows, and the rest is history.

 

Sounds like the Jets are in a similar situation, but in a cap era, it’s incredibly hard to manage the kinds of trades Savard pulled off.

[DON]

If Jets traded Dubois next march at deadline, how much could they likely get for him (say he is having an average season, 58 point pace), as a RFA?

Vs what would they likely demand or get if dealt around the upcoming draft?

[dlbalr]

6 minutes ago, DON said:

If Jets traded Dubois next march at deadline, how much could they likely get for him (say he is having an average season, 58 point pace), as a RFA?

Vs what would they likely demand or get if dealt around the upcoming draft?

 

I'm not sure that there would be a significant difference.  If he's available as a rental at the deadline, he's probably getting a first plus something with Winnipeg retaining 50%.  I'm not sure how much more than that they'd get this summer.

[GHT120]

 

Probably a good idea to do the dirty work before hiring a new GM.

[dlbalr]

18 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Probably a good idea to do the dirty work before hiring a new GM.

 

I think it would have been a better idea for ownership to sign off on this before the old GM left.  When Treliving chose to move on, the belief at the time was that he was told Sutter was to stay behind the bench.  I wouldn't be shocked if that was part of his decision to leave.

[GHT120]

6 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

I think it would have been a better idea for ownership to sign off on this before the old GM left.  When Treliving chose to move on, the belief at the time was that he was told Sutter was to stay behind the bench.  I wouldn't be shocked if that was part of his decision to leave.

 

 

Florida's defeat of the BBs, lead by Tkachuk, combined with Calgary's failure to make the playoffs may have made Treliving's tenure tenuous in any event.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

Florida's defeat of the BBs, lead by Tkachuk, combined with Calgary's failure to make the playoffs may have made Treliving's tenure tenuous in any event.

I’m pretty sure Sutter was the reason Gaudreau and Tkachuk wanted out of Calgary. I think Treliving did a good job given that his two top players wanted out. Sutter is as a problem during the playoffs last year when he called out Gaudreau not being able to bury his chances as the reasons for the Flames losing, and this year saying Huberdeau was taking a shit in a press conference probably didn’t endure him to Huberdeau either.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I’m pretty sure Sutter was the reason Gaudreau and Tkachuk wanted out of Calgary. I think Treliving did a good job given that his two top players wanted out. Sutter is as a problem during the playoffs last year when he called out Gaudreau not being able to bury his chances as the reasons for the Flames losing, and this year saying Huberdeau was taking a shit in a press conference probably didn’t endure him to Huberdeau either.

 

I agree. It was no secret that Tkachuk and Sutter didn't see eye to eye and Gaudreau was not his style of player.  Did he really have a burning desire to play in Columbus?

 

I think Sutter is one of those coaches you love playing for (ie. Toffoli) or you hate playing for. There is not much in between. 

[Commandant]

Gaudreau wanted to be closer to his wife's family as they had a young child. 

 

By going to columbus, he's in the same division as the three new york teams and so the road trips to NYC were far more frequent. 

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I’m pretty sure Sutter was the reason Gaudreau and Tkachuk wanted out of Calgary. I think Treliving did a good job given that his two top players wanted out. Sutter is as a problem during the playoffs last year when he called out Gaudreau not being able to bury his chances as the reasons for the Flames losing, and this year saying Huberdeau was taking a shit in a press conference probably didn’t endure him to Huberdeau either.

Was not defending Sutter in any way, shape or form ... never have been a fan ... just saying that after 9 seasons and how badly the Tkachuk turned out it may have been time for a change with Treliving wanyway.