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2022-23 NHL Discussion Thread


tomh009

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10 minutes ago, Fanpuck33 said:

 

That's the whole problem with Dubois - his attitude. He is a me first player. He wants to be treated and paid like a first line center on a good team and that just isn't what he is. He is 25 years old with a 63 point career best season and has twice given up on being part of a team. If someone wants to pay him like a #1, let them. If the Kings aren't willing to commit to him as such and no other team does either, then maybe it humbled him and he's someone to work with as a good #2 at a reasonable price.

I think that is the "glass is empty" perspective on PLD ... IMO he wanted out of Columbus because of John Tortorella ... not the first player with that opinion, and CBJ was so impressed by the rest of that season that they then let JT walk when his contract expired a few months after the trade ... AND ... not certain PLD actually has asked Winnipeg for a trade ... he told them that, like their other pending UFAs, he won't re-sign next summer and the Jets are desperate to optimize their assets ... what I recall hearing from NHL related folks and "real" experts (i.e., not Internet clickbait bloggers) is that PLD is a good teammate, excellent two-way player and hard to play against ... how much he is worth on a long-term deal or in a grade is a separate debate.

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12 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I think that is the "glass is empty" perspective on PLD ... IMO he wanted out of Columbus because of John Tortorella ... not the first player with that opinion, and CBJ was so impressed by the rest of that season that they then let JT walk when his contract expired a few months after the trade ... AND ... not certain PLD actually has asked Winnipeg for a trade ... he told them that, like their other pending UFAs, he won't re-sign next summer and the Jets are desperate to optimize their assets ... what I recall hearing from NHL related folks and "real" experts (i.e., not Internet clickbait bloggers) is that PLD is a good teammate, excellent two-way player and hard to play against ... how much he is worth on a long-term deal or in a grade is a separate debate.

 

I think your opinion is much closer to the truth. I have never heard any teammate or former teammate say negative things about him.  I don't hold it against a player for trying to have some control over where they are going to play the bulk of their career. At least he is giving Winnipeg the chance to get something for him as opposed to Gaudreau who left Calgary holding the bag. The longer this plays out without a trade to LA announced the more you wonder what is going on. Maybe Montreal is still in the mix?

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24 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I think your opinion is much closer to the truth. I have never heard any teammate or former teammate say negative things about him.  I don't hold it against a player for trying to have some control over where they are going to play the bulk of their career. At least he is giving Winnipeg the chance to get something for him as opposed to Gaudreau who left Calgary holding the bag. The longer this plays out without a trade to LA announced the more you wonder what is going on. Maybe Montreal is still in the mix?

Montreal ***may*** be the only team willing to make a substantial (but not LAK level) offer without an extension being signed.

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3 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I think that is the "glass is empty" perspective on PLD ... IMO he wanted out of Columbus because of John Tortorella ... not the first player with that opinion, and CBJ was so impressed by the rest of that season that they then let JT walk when his contract expired a few months after the trade ... AND ... not certain PLD actually has asked Winnipeg for a trade ... he told them that, like their other pending UFAs, he won't re-sign next summer and the Jets are desperate to optimize their assets ... what I recall hearing from NHL related folks and "real" experts (i.e., not Internet clickbait bloggers) is that PLD is a good teammate, excellent two-way player and hard to play against ... how much he is worth on a long-term deal or in a grade is a separate debate.

  

As far as I know, PLD told the Jets he wont sign a 1 yr contract with them that would take him to his UFA year.   Notice that there has been no mention of him signing a 1 yr deal with the Jets.  Hence all the trade talk now vs at trade deadline.  

 

I'm not sure what PLD was thinking when he said that because if he really wanted to pay for the Habs he royally messed that right up by refusing to sign another 1 yr deal with the Jets.

 

It is funny all the slack PLD gets and comments on numerous boards etc that PLD is toxic.  Basically, any player of significance that has played for CBJ wanted out.  Furthermore, its basically the same with the Jets. They have a toxic locker room that Laine wanted nothing to do with and Paul Maurice eventually quit.  Therefore, PLD is a prima dona.

 

Meanwhile, in the playoffs the Jets lost in OT to Vegas because a young dman had  a unfortunate puck bounce up against the board behind the Jets net that led to a goal.  Who was the 1st player to skate over to the rookie dman to let him know that is wasn't his fault?  Hint:  it was PLD.  

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4 hours ago, Helmethead said:


Well since you wanted an update..

 

I sat next to David Abrutyn on the flight from Weschester NY to Nashville. 

 

Here’s a bit about him:https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2017/04/26/People-and-Pop-Culture/David-Abrutyn.aspx 

 

He saw my 10yr reading The Hockey News Draft edition magazine and talking to him for a bit he pulled out an autographed photo of Ovechkin and handed one to each of my boys. 

 

After talking draft for a bit he mentioned the following:

 

He’s not 100% convinced Anaheim takes Fantilli at #2. 
 

He insisted Verbeek likes to think outside of the box and that he believes Michkov is the second most talented player out there. 
 

If Michkov doesn’t go at 2, he expects him to be available at 5. 
 

My kid told him he wanted MTL to take Smith. 
 

He told him he doesn’t believe Smith will be there at there at 5. 
 

He also mentioned that he expects Washington to make a strong push to move up to 5 if Michkov is still on the board. 
 

When I asked him what he thought it would take he said it would be expensive but didn’t divulge anything more. 
 

 

 

Extremely cool anecdote! 👍 Thanks!

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2 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

  

As far as I know, PLD told the Jets he wont sign a 1 yr contract with them that would take him to his UFA year.   Notice that there has been no mention of him signing a 1 yr deal with the Jets.  Hence all the trade talk now vs at trade deadline.  

 

I'm not sure what PLD was thinking when he said that because if he really wanted to pay for the Habs he royally messed that right up by refusing to sign another 1 yr deal with the Jets.

 

It is funny all the slack PLD gets and comments on numerous boards etc that PLD is toxic.  Basically, any player of significance that has played for CBJ wanted out.  Furthermore, its basically the same with the Jets. They have a toxic locker room that Laine wanted nothing to do with and Paul Maurice eventually quit.  Therefore, PLD is a prima dona.

 

Meanwhile, in the playoffs the Jets lost in OT to Vegas because a young dman had  a unfortunate puck bounce up against the board behind the Jets net that led to a goal.  Who was the 1st player to skate over to the rookie dman to let him know that is wasn't his fault?  Hint:  it was PLD.  

 

My random take is that PLD would like to play for Montreal, sure, but it's sort of an idle wish - like me saying I'd like to teach at Oxford University, or retire to Nice, France. Sure, great if it happens, but I'm not going to move heaven and earth to make it happen, nor will I adamantly insist upon these outcomes. In other words, he'll be happy to play in a bunch of places even if he does have a sentimental attachment to Montreal. 

 

Give how the rumour mill has shifted to LA, I would infer that Montreal has not found WPG's asking price congenial. And PLD is fine with other options.

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4 hours ago, GHT120 said:

I think that is the "glass is empty" perspective on PLD ... IMO he wanted out of Columbus because of John Tortorella ... not the first player with that opinion, and CBJ was so impressed by the rest of that season that they then let JT walk when his contract expired a few months after the trade ... AND ... not certain PLD actually has asked Winnipeg for a trade ... he told them that, like their other pending UFAs, he won't re-sign next summer and the Jets are desperate to optimize their assets ... what I recall hearing from NHL related folks and "real" experts (i.e., not Internet clickbait bloggers) is that PLD is a good teammate, excellent two-way player and hard to play against ... how much he is worth on a long-term deal or in a grade is a separate debate.

 

Well, that fits because I'm a glass half empty person. And I'm a Jackets fan, so that first strike is a big one for me. If he had played out his time in Winnipeg and just gone his merry way at the trade deadline as a rental, that's fine. But so openly wanting out of a second team in two years... it's hard to think anything would be different in two years anywhere else.

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1 minute ago, Fanpuck33 said:

Well, that fits because I'm a glass half empty person. And I'm a Jackets fan, so that first strike is a big one for me. If he had played out his time in Winnipeg and just gone his merry way at the trade deadline as a rental, that's fine. But so openly wanting out of a second team in two years... it's hard to think anything would be different in two years anywhere else.

 

The CBJs chose Torts over PLD and then decided to let Torts walk at the end of the season ... and IMO Dubois is doing better by Winnipeg than "your" big UFA signing did by Calgary last season ... being honest and transparent ... just like Hellebuyck and Scheifele ... PLD just gets more media coverage ... but I don't see either of us convincing the other, so to each his own.

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21 hours ago, GHT120 said:

The CBJs chose Torts over PLD and then decided to let Torts walk at the end of the season ... and IMO Dubois is doing better by Winnipeg than "your" big UFA signing did by Calgary last season ... being honest and transparent ... just like Hellebuyck and Scheifele ... PLD just gets more media coverage ... but I don't see either of us convincing the other, so to each his own.

 

Oh, if I were a Flames fan, I would absolutely feel the same way about Gaudreau as I do the likes of Panarin and Bobrovsky (I'm struggling to think of a comparable in Montreal, except maybe JK and his offer sheet). If PLD had ended up in Montreal, than all would have been forgiven. Habs still trump the Jackets for me.

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1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

D'oh, the Devils just landed Toffoli.  That is no good.

I don't think the Devils (112 points in the past season) are really our competition for the next year or two. And whether Toffoli is still there (and still effective) by the time we are ready to contend is a big question mark.

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Just now, tomh009 said:

I don't think the Devils (112 points in the past season) are really our competition for the next year or two. And whether Toffoli is still there (and still effective) by the time we are ready to contend is a big question mark.

 

The Devils also picked up Meier at the trade deadline so I doubt they're really a 112 pt team.  With those 2 guys for an entire season they might breach 130 pts.   I recently said in another thread about the Devils already having a bunch of young punks that could be all-star HOF players.  

 

Toffoli's current contract was very reasonable and his next might be too.  The Devils will try to keep him so I'm definitely concerned that he could stay there.  

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3 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

The Devils also picked up Meier at the trade deadline so I doubt they're really a 112 pt team.  With those 2 guys for an entire season they might breach 130 pts.   I recently said in another thread about the Devils already having a bunch of young punks that could be all-star HOF players.  

 

Toffoli's current contract was very reasonable and his next might be too.  The Devils will try to keep him so I'm definitely concerned that he could stay there.  

 

130 points?

 

So they are gonna challenge what the Bruins just did?

What?

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4 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

130 points?

 

So they are gonna challenge what the Bruins just did?

What?

 

 

You say that like you are anticipating that the Devils will get less points next season? 

 

They just picked up Toffs, who is a 30-35 g scorer and so is Meier.  They will have both for the whole season - and possibly beyond.

 

I'm certain they will get more points than last year.  They'd need to win 9 more games to hit 130.    I fully expect them to win a min of 5-6 more games and be in the mid 120 pts range.  If they get lucky they could possibly get 130.

 

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23 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

You say that like you are anticipating that the Devils will get less points next season?

No, I say that like I am anticipating that the Habs will be nowhere near the Devils in 2023-24 in any case, Toffoli or not. So it doesn't matter for this season, at least.

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16 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

No, I say that like I am anticipating that the Habs will be nowhere near the Devils in 2023-24 in any case, Toffoli or not. So it doesn't matter for this season, at least.

 

I said that to Commandant.  

 

You are right about next year.  That wont affect the Habs one bit.  However, I'm worried he'll be there beyond that.  

 

I don't believe that its crazy unrealistic to think that by adding 2 35 g guys that they could each possibly win them 3-5 more games.  That's 12-20 more points.  That could last way beyond this season of Toffs resigns with them. 

 

Plus, their young punks will continue to develop and improve.  My worst case scenario no trade list for the Devils I had Toffs on it.  He is bi-product of Sutter who you can love or hate but he produces dependable and responsible 2 way players.  

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2 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

 

You say that like you are anticipating that the Devils will get less points next season? 

 

They just picked up Toffs, who is a 30-35 g scorer and so is Meier.  They will have both for the whole season - and possibly beyond.

 

I'm certain they will get more points than last year.  They'd need to win 9 more games to hit 130.    I fully expect them to win a min of 5-6 more games and be in the mid 120 pts range.  If they get lucky they could possibly get 130.

 

 

Im saying that things are never that simple.

 

Trajectories are not linear.  Some players who produced for them this year will regress a little next year.  Injury luck that they didnt have many happen last year may not continue. 

 

120+ point teams are an extreme rarity and im not predicting that for anyone before a season starts.  Especially cause we have no idea what the devils will even do in goal.

 

The devils will be strong but predicting any team to go 130+ is just crazy to me.

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44 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Im saying that things are never that simple.

 

Trajectories are not linear.  Some players who produced for them this year will regress a little next year.  Injury luck that they didnt have many happen last year may not continue. 

 

120+ point teams are an extreme rarity and im not predicting that for anyone before a season starts.  Especially cause we have no idea what the devils will even do in goal.

 

The devils will be strong but predicting any team to go 130+ is just crazy to me.

I agree. I also thin li the bruins season was an anomaly. You also have injuries and chemistry factors. I wouldn’t consider this years bruins to actually have been one of the top 5 teams in the past 20 years let alone all time, regardless of how many points they got. They certainly weren’t even close to being as complete or dominant of a team as any of the late 70’s dynasty habs teams.

NJD could just as easily end up firing Ruff in the next year or two, as them improving even 10% from this year’s point total.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Winning 3-5 more games is 6-10 more points... not 12-20.  Games arent worth 4 points.

 

Umm, but I said *each* player though, so double that and it does equal 12-20 points: 

2 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

they could each possibly win them 3-5 more games.  That's 12-20 more points. 

 

 

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