Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 37 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Viewed objectively, there’s a bit too much giddiness in Habsland right now - this team is apt to win way more than it loses, and Arizona is not an NHL team. I also saw much of the same giddiness around the Subban/Patches edition of the club around 2013, and in the longer run that whole configuration somehow went sour, so we’re a loooong way from this moment - where a future core appears to be emerging and solidifying - to any sort of promised land. BUT we’re learning a few things: Wifi is one tough mofo. He didn’t just beat Kassian, he demolished him to an almost frightening degree. I guarantee you that clip is going around the league and guys are going, “whoa.” Harris - is he the next Dan Hamhuis? A quiet player who doesn’t rack up huge points but who efficiently controls the play? Slaf - I guess he’s not used to being hit like that, because he seemed to overreact to a clean check, but great that he got his first! I thought Ingram should have had it, but we’ll take it. St Louis says we’re developing a “pack mentality.” Teams like that are hard to play against, even if they lose a lot. This team is not going to win the Bédard competition, unless we get a ton of lottery luck. Or Allen gets hurt. God forbid. After last year we are allowed to be a little giddy but I hear you and agree with your points. Love the way Harris plays. I know a lot of people assume Arber will be sent to Laval once Matheson and Edmundsen come back and he will likely be sent down but he is making a strong case to stay up because he brings an element to the Habs that no one else can bring. I have no doubt many of the Habs are very happy to have someone like that watching their back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Viewed objectively, there’s a bit too much giddiness in Habsland right now - this team is apt to win way more than it loses, and Arizona is not an NHL team. I also saw much of the same giddiness around the Subban/Patches edition of the club around 2013, and in the longer run that whole configuration somehow went sour, so we’re a loooong way from this moment - where a future core appears to be emerging and solidifying - to any sort of promised land. BUT we’re learning a few things: One thought I’ve had recently (actually yesterday) is whether or not the “robots” on Habsworld, and Habsland in general, actually have any endorphins in their brain which can be released upon the Habs doing well and winning a game. It’s a constant buzz kill and in fact not always accurate to proclaim that the Habs will lose, or should lose any given game. The way this ties in with your post, which I understand for the most part, is what is so wrong with a fanbase being happy about their team while they win games? In a way, I understand that we do not want to be a reincarnated version of the Leaf fanbase who call for a parade perennially in October. On the other majorly large hand, why should we listen to arm chair general managers who proclaim to know the future with the never ending 3 year future window? “The future will always be better”. It’s no secret that our team is not actually a legitimate contender but can it outperform expectation and could we be closer than we think? Absolutely. Now, I am not stating that because of the actual physical names we have in our lineup. I am simply stating this because similar to how you have seen fan expectations be overly high towards unproven prospects, I have seen the opposite time and time again. Fans claiming that we are “three years away”, when we never are… as well as “our team is pathetic and didn’t deserve to make the playoffs”, the same year we make a CUP FINAL run. What I will say is that youth aside, the Habs have a very strong forward corps. We scored 6 goals last night, and we have 3 or 4 more forwards who could have been the goal scorer yet did not score. I do believe that simply because of that, we are turning out to be fairly underrated. On the other hand, when it comes to the youth, I think things can be overblown as well and I agree with your point. Caufield, Suzuki, sure. Some of the other prospects have a long way to go before they actually prove themselves as being part of our future core on a contending team. Some expectations in that respect should be tempered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 We all know that our current team is in transition and as contracts expire and players are traded it will look very different in two years. What the excitement is all about is watching our developing new core compete and succeed already. They have played great since game one. Then we layer in future core players such as Guhle and Harris and excitement grows because they are succeeding at a high level - so far I also consider that we are likely to add one or two core players from the upcoming draft - Hopefully We also have a handful of prospects that show significant potential albeit they all have a ways to go. We have lots to be hopeful for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 32 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: ...I also consider that we are likely to add one or two core players from the upcoming draft - Hopefully I think odds are, would be lucky if it is 1 'core' player, 2 seems highly unlikely. One top ten pick would be sweet though. We have lots to be hopeful for. For sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 It could well be two, depending on the deals Hugo makes at the trade deadline. Or it could be another already-drafted young player/prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: One thought I’ve had recently (actually yesterday) is whether or not the “robots” on Habsworld, and Habsland in general, actually have any endorphins in their brain which can be released upon the Habs doing well and winning a game. It’s a constant buzz kill and in fact not always accurate to proclaim that the Habs will lose, or should lose any given game. The way this ties in with your post, which I understand for the most part, is what is so wrong with a fanbase being happy about their team while they win games? In a way, I understand that we do not want to be a reincarnated version of the Leaf fanbase who call for a parade perennially in October. On the other majorly large hand, why should we listen to arm chair general managers who proclaim to know the future with the never ending 3 year future window? “The future will always be better”. It’s no secret that our team is not actually a legitimate contender but can it outperform expectation and could we be closer than we think? Absolutely. Now, I am not stating that because of the actual physical names we have in our lineup. I am simply stating this because similar to how you have seen fan expectations be overly high towards unproven prospects, I have seen the opposite time and time again. Fans claiming that we are “three years away”, when we never are… as well as “our team is pathetic and didn’t deserve to make the playoffs”, the same year we make a CUP FINAL run. What I will say is that youth aside, the Habs have a very strong forward corps. We scored 6 goals last night, and we have 3 or 4 more forwards who could have been the goal scorer yet did not score. I do believe that simply because of that, we are turning out to be fairly underrated. On the other hand, when it comes to the youth, I think things can be overblown as well and I agree with your point. Caufield, Suzuki, sure. Some of the other prospects have a long way to go before they actually prove themselves as being part of our future core on a contending team. Some expectations in that respect should be tempered. You're making fair points. On the one hand, we have some "Leafs Nation" fans who get spasmodically excited at a team that has surpassed expectations for a grand total of five games. On the other hand, we have some other fans who are perpetually cranky - the type who are perpetually calling for tanking, even when you have a team that is in its prime. Your example of 2021 is excellent in this regard. While I may be a bit of a wet blanket, I just feel like I've been through this movie many times. That does NOT mean I think this rebuild won't work out. Au contraire, I think it will work out in the sense of eventually yielding a good team that stays good for a few years, at least. At the same time, we're looking down a long road here, and it's too soon to get TOO excited IMHO. But do I get pumped when this team wins? Absolutely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, tomh009 said: It could well be two, depending on the deals Hugo makes at the trade deadline. Like all here I hope so; but is unlikely for any team to pick multiple 'core' players in one draft. Only time will tell if passing on a Nazar for Dach was a smart decision, to opt for the quick current roster fix and not be more patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: ... Wifi is one tough mofo. He didn’t just beat Kassian, he demolished him to an almost frightening degree. I guarantee you that clip is going around the league and guys are going, “whoa.” ... This team is not going to win the Bédard competition, unless we get a ton of lottery luck. Or Allen gets hurt. God forbid. Generally agree ... my comments on two points Hope Wi-Fi hasn't put a target on himself ... he doesn't NEED to fight ... I don't follow fighters closely enough to know whether Kassian represents proving himself against an elite fighter or just a test against a "big guy" who fancies himself tough. Lottery luck would always help but besides injury there is the distinct possibility that Allen regresses to his norm ... currently at .938 Sv% this season ... career .911 over 9 seasons ... two seasons over .920 ... two others squeaking past .911 (.913 & .915) ... and five at .907 or lower ... same is true for Montembeault ... currently .912 ... career .892 ... although I think he has improved but .900-ish is likely more realistic THIS season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: One thought I’ve had recently (actually yesterday) is whether or not the “ROBOTS” on Habsworld, and Habsland in general, actually have any endorphins in their brain which can be released upon the Habs doing well and winning a game. No need to be insulting ... there will always be some "negative nellies" in any fanbase who always see the absolute worst ... but for the most part the more cautious amongst us, of which I count myself one, are simply the karmic counterbalance to those who based on the start to the season and a win like last night and see this year's team as making the playoffs ... after years of management, all to often, telling us to hope and pray for the playoffs and anything can happen (and it almost did, once in 29 seasons during a topsy-turvy world) I want to have confidence, not hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, GHT120 said: No need to be insulting ... there will always be some "negative nellies" in any fanbase who always see the absolute worst ... but for the most part the more cautious amongst us, of which I count myself one, are simply the karmic counterbalance to those who based on the start to the season and a win like last night and see this year's team as making the playoffs ... after years of management, for the most part, telling us to hope and pray for the playoffs and anything can happen (and it almost did one in 29 seasons in a topsy-turvy year) I want to have confidence, not hope. It’s not meant to be insulting towards the majority of the fanbase. There are genuinely people who show no joy after any Habs win. That’s not normal. Whether you want to call them emotionless robots or armchair GMs, the description of these people will be unpleasant either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 32 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: You're making fair points. On the one hand, we have some "Leafs Nation" fans who get spasmodically excited at a team that has surpassed expectations for a grand total of five games. On the other hand, we have some other fans who are perpetually cranky - the type who are perpetually calling for tanking, even when you have a team that is in its prime. Your example of 2021 is excellent in this regard. While I may be a bit of a wet blanket, I just feel like I've been through this movie many times. That does NOT mean I think this rebuild won't work out. Au contraire, I think it will work out in the sense of eventually yielding a good team that stays good for a few years, at least. At the same time, we're looking down a long road here, and it's too soon to get TOO excited IMHO. But do I get pumped when this team wins? Absolutely. I agree with your patient and cautious view @The Chicoutimi Cucumber . If I remember correctly, young teams perform great at the beginning of the season but fade away as the speed of the game increases as the season progresses. There is usually an inflexion point near Christmas and another around the trade deadline. I am happy after every win, but my long term expectation is a Stanley Cup and my 2022-2023 season wishes is for the best development path for each core player and the best draft selections next summer. If this team tries to contend for a playoff spot this year, it will be at the detriment of the long term goal we have been promised. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 minute ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: It’s not meant to be insulting towards the majority of the fanbase. There are genuinely people who show no joy after any Habs win. That’s not normal. Whether you want to call them emotionless robots or armchair GMs, the description of these people will be unpleasant either way. We are all armchair GMs ... there are simply various perspectives ... the most common evidence of that has been the seemingly endless rebuild versus go-for-the-playoffs debates. Those who NEVER show joy in wins are the "negative nellies" to whom I referred ... I've never understood them ... I think there are a lot of us who are simply cautious during the rebuild and don't want to over-react to either wins or losses ... how the youngsters perform is the primary interest for this segment of the fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: It’s not meant to be insulting towards the majority of the fanbase. There are genuinely people who show no joy after any Habs win. That’s not normal. Whether you want to call them emotionless robots or armchair GMs, the description of these people will be unpleasant either way. you were not insulting, just some posters are ficklish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 In addition, I have been on these boards for 17 years and have lived through many of the negative nancies who have posted and continue to post throughout the years. Exaggeration is part of the formula. In these past 29 years we have had more than one team that has has a somewhat legitimate chance of winning the cup. The Habs finished atop the Eastern Conference a few times, reached the conference finals a few times, and made the cup final as well. It is true that the negative nancies were correct every single one of those years, since we never won a cup. What is also true is that in any given year, they have about a 97% chance of being correct without even using a brain cell. While we did not win, this does not change the fact that realistically there have been a good 10 years of seasons where there was legitimate reason to have hope, and they simply get omitted from memory because everyone “knew” the Habs weren’t a “top tier” contender anyway. We were first overall in the regular season? “Not a playoff team”. We squeaked in at 8th spot? “We should have tanked.” If you are expecting a season where you have full confidence, we likely will still not win that specific year because you are a human and not a robot that can simply predict that “this is our year” based on your calculations. Due to reality that we are not in 1960 anymore and there are 32 teams, we will likely win the Stanley Cup during a year where the fanbase had hope, long before the season you had confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: ... negative nancies ... LOVE THAT ... I am a convert from "negative nellies" ... who is ever named Nelly any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: ... If you are expecting a season where you have full confidence, we likely will still not win that specific year because you are a human and not a robot that can simply predict that “this is our year” based on your calculations. ... My "objective" is not to have confidence that they will win a Cup but confidence starting each season that the Habs should be a non-wild-card playoff team and to have reasonable hopes/expectations of some playoff success once ... nothing is EVER guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 What has me excited is not so much that they are 3-2 but the poise, confidence and skill many of the young players are exhibiting. I know it's early but Guhle and Harris look like seasoned veterans out there, both have excellent mobility and hockey smarts. Plus we have a kick ass defenseman who will keep other teams honest. Suzuki and Caulfield look terrific (please sign Caufield). Slaf might need to go down to Laval but he seems to be getting better every game. There is a lot to be optimistic about. Some here thought their defense would be brutal. They are young and will make mistakes but there is talent there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: LOVE THAT ... I am a convert from "negative nellies" ... who is ever named Nelly any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said: The needle in the haystack ... expect there are a lot more Nancy-s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: Cornell Iral Haynes Jr. ... "stage names" don't count ... 😉. 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 2 hours ago, GHT120 said: Cornell Iral Haynes Jr. ... "stage names" don't count ... 😉. 😄 Nelly is short for Cornell Just like Bob Gainey was Robert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Commandant said: Nelly is short for Cornell Just like Bob Gainey was Robert. Glad we got that cleared up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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