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Nov. 12, Penguins vs Habs, 7 PM


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3 hours ago, sbhatt said:

There is no quit in this team...that was a lot of fun to watch.  Dach/Suzuki/Caufield just keep on rolling, and Hoffman waking up has really helped.

Let’s hope he keeps it up to the trade deadline!

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1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Just like that, they're back in the bubble again!!  Take that tankists!!   :1banana:

 

That was a great game.

 

Dach is looking really good, especially on the 1st line.  I still say his next contract will be a big problem, but they'll get at least 4 years out of him.  

 

Hoffman is now at least worth a 2nd hand Zamboni.  

It was a great game, and the play of the kids makes it look like we are not only on the right track, but we may be able to be a playoff team ahead of schedule. I figured it would be another two years, but we may be able to get back in next year. No way do I think that we are seriously a bubble team with a shot of making the playoffs this year. There’s too many teams in the east that will keep us out of even a wild card spot.

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As great as I think Harris is there is one area of his game that needs work. 
 

Every damn time last night when Harris had the puck in the Ozone he passed instead of shoot. He had prime shooting options open to him a few times and he dished every single time. 
 

Harris needs to shoot and try to score

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6 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Dach is looking really good, especially on the 1st line.  I still say his next contract will be a big problem, but they'll get at least 4 years out of him.  i.  

You mean you are worried about his new deal in 2026-27, now?

 

0 shots eh? I thought Sid must of had a couple.

https://theathletic.com/3876416/2022/11/13/canadiens-kaiden-guhle-penguins/

 

On

"As he sat down to take off his equipment, he was asked if all this has become normal yet, the NHL dressing room, the charter flights, the fancy hotels, the lifestyle he has always dreamed of living.

“No, not at all,” he answered with a smile. “It’s still surreal.”

The one thing Guhle acknowledged had changed was that unlike earlier in the season, he was no longer in awe of his opponents."...

 

"In 13:22 of ice time at five-on-five with Crosby and Guhle on Saturday, the Canadiens outshot the Penguins 7-2, out-attempted them 11-6 and outscored them 2-0, according to Natural Stat Trick. At one point midway through the first period, Guhle was behind his own goal line and Crosby had the puck in front of him. Guhle put both hands on Crosby’s back and pushed him to the ice.

Crosby didn’t have the puck any more, and it was clear Guhle is not in awe anymore."

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12 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

We’re trailing after two lucky Pens goals, but damn - has this team played a boring game all season? Lots of excitement out there. The Suzuki line alone is full value, entertainment wise.


I totally agree that the team is far more exciting that last year and was exciting for final

half Of game, but first period was quite dull:
10 shots total b/w two teams is not exciting hockey.

The flow and excitement level definitely increased as âme progressed.   It is far more rare this year to see a boring segment or period though.

 

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11 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Habs deserved a regulation win tonight. They have been simply the better team. I don’t think Pitts was “up” for this one.

 

Massively enjoyable tilt, though, and OT should just add to the chaos. 

Yes,  agreed. But it was just bad luck that kept regulation win away, and fact that Habs overcame that is a great sign.

Pens were on second on back to back and it showed.

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Regarding Dach: while I am happy to see him thrive and he seems a good fit with 14/22. 
I recall not being so hyped when he wasn’t on that line and playing C.

Not that he was bad, but was not excitingly good either, so I am wondering if he is benefiting from the promotion and being with the dynamic duo?   Just speculating, haven’t thought this out.  
But do believe it would benefit teaM more if he could run his own line and have even close to such an impact on games.

 

Was begging Drouin to shoot all game, he needs to be more than just a passing threat. First time he shoots, OT winner on rebound.

 

 

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1 hour ago, DON said:

You mean you are worried about his new deal in 2026-27, now?

 

0 shots eh? I thought Sid must of had a couple.

https://theathletic.com/3876416/2022/11/13/canadiens-kaiden-guhle-penguins/

 

On

"As he sat down to take off his equipment, he was asked if all this has become normal yet, the NHL dressing room, the charter flights, the fancy hotels, the lifestyle he has always dreamed of living.

“No, not at all,” he answered with a smile. “It’s still surreal.”

The one thing Guhle acknowledged had changed was that unlike earlier in the season, he was no longer in awe of his opponents."...

 

"In 13:22 of ice time at five-on-five with Crosby and Guhle on Saturday, the Canadiens outshot the Penguins 7-2, out-attempted them 11-6 and outscored them 2-0, according to Natural Stat Trick. At one point midway through the first period, Guhle was behind his own goal line and Crosby had the puck in front of him. Guhle put both hands on Crosby’s back and pushed him to the ice.

Crosby didn’t have the puck any more, and it was clear Guhle is not in awe anymore."


Sid and line mates tried to get top pretty couple of times and over passes themselves out of shots.  I had thought he was not overly noticeable tho.

Back to back games with travel  to Mtl may be getting Harder on Sid “the kid” as well? 

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41 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:

Regarding Dach: while I am happy to see him thrive and he seems a good fit with 14/22. 
I recall not being so hyped when he wasn’t on that line and playing C.

Not that he was bad, but was not excitingly good either, so I am wondering if he is benefiting from the promotion and being with the dynamic duo?   Just speculating, haven’t thought this out.  
But do believe it would benefit teaM more if he could run his own line and have even close to such an impact on games.

 

Was begging Drouin to shoot all game, he needs to be more than just a passing threat. First time he shoots, OT winner on rebound.

 

 

 

He has benefited from playing with Suzuki and Caufield instead of Monahan and Hoffman, which makes sense. I figure Dach is doing better than anyone else on that line that's had the opportunity. Time will tell if it keeps up long term, but so far, his style of play appears to blend well.

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7 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He is making the Romanov for Dach three way look really good right now! Let’s hope Suzuki, Caufield, and Dach continue to progress up front and Guhle, Harris, and wifi on the backend. I’m not even including Slafkovsky since he’s still got a way to go, but I can’t remember so many young players to get excited about since 85’ and 86’!

 

if some of our young prospects also take a big step forward next year, we can be a playoff team earlier than expected.

 

this Mgmt team and St Louis have done a better job in bringing young players along in less than a year, than MB and his coaches did in 10 years!

 

To be fair - not that I lose sleep over Bergevin or Timmins  - Suzuki, Caufield, WiFi, and Guhle were all acquired by Bergevin/Timmins. And lest we leap to the conclusion that Bergevin could never have made deals akin to the Dach or Harris trades, we should remember that when he was asked to trade vets for prospects, he scored Danault and Suzuki. Drouin disaster aside, he was quite skilled at the trade table.

 

The real trump card from HuGo has been a move I was skeptical about at the time, i.e., hiring MSL. Bergevin’s coaches were a succession of play-it-safe, old-school plodders who approached young players as problems to be managed (or, in the case of Subban, a target to be crapped on). It was even worse at the AHL level, where we wasted five years of development on the incompetent Lefebvre. MSL’s dynamic, creative coaching seems to be inspiring dynamic, creative play from the kids: exactly the right environment for them to develop. MSL may be unique among coaches in that he really doesn’t need the work; he’s set for life and coaching just for the passion of it. That offers a fundamental buffer against the constant pressure coaches feel to be risk-averse. And that sense of joy and confidence probably filters down to the team.

 

Another piece: I find it reassuring that our player development system will now be richly informed by analytics. MB’s player development was atrocious and I suspect the old-school mindset was a significant contributor to that. The responsible use of analytics should mitigate against any more absurdities like shoving Caufield on the fourth line. 

 

Regarding Dach: it’s too soon to declare officially that he’s “arrived.” However, he is showing he can thrive with skilled linemates. Whether he ever reverts to being a C, or can remain as dynamic on lower lines, are open questions. But I would leave him on that line for a good long time. Let him develop sufficient reserves of confidence that, when he is moved, he’ll be able to draw from them to try to drive the play.

 

 

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The NHL needs an out of the box new coach every few years to keep the game interesting.  MSL is a big fan of 5 forwards on the PP, it’s not revolutionizing the league like Roy’s pulling th egos lie at 3 minutes left, but it’s something different.

 

MSL’s biggest asset is he has no expectations.  He can try new things and if it fails, it’s still ok.

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Dach at wing means significantly less responsibly and he is playing with the team’s top players. 
 

Suzuki and Caufield are better than Hoffman and Monahan by a large degree. 
 

Not to take anything away from Dach because he is using all of his impressive tools shift after shift

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8 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He is making the Romanov for Dach three way look really good right now! Let’s hope Suzuki, Caufield, and Dach continue to progress up front and Guhle, Harris, and wifi on the backend. I’m not even including Slafkovsky since he’s still got a way to go, but I can’t remember so many young players to get excited about since 85’ and 86’!

 

if some of our young prospects also take a big step forward next year, we can be a playoff team earlier than expected.

 

this Mgmt team and St Louis have done a better job in bringing young players along in less than a year, than MB and his coaches did in 10 years!

Lack of development and the lack of a plan to fix those self-imposed deficiencies ( e.g., Leberfve, lack of skill development and analytics departments, lack of a coherent team building and drafting strategy)were Bergevin’s biggest flaws. While he should get credit for the Suzuki trade, drafting Caufield and signing Wifi, the contrast between the old regime and the new are striking. Also, HuGort’s work is showing results far, far faster than anyone anticipated. 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

To be fair - not that I lose sleep over Bergevin or Timmins  - Suzuki, Caufield, WiFi, and Guhle were all acquired by Bergevin/Timmins. And lest we leap to the conclusion that Bergevin could never have made deals akin to the Dach or Harris trades, we should remember that when he was asked to trade vets for prospects, he scored Danault and Suzuki. Drouin disaster aside, he was quite skilled at the trade table.

 

The real trump card from HuGo has been a move I was skeptical about at the time, i.e., hiring MSL. Bergevin’s coaches were a succession of play-it-safe, old-school plodders who approached young players as problems to be managed (or, in the case of Subban, a target to be crapped on). It was even worse at the AHL level, where we wasted five years of development on the incompetent Lefebvre. MSL’s dynamic, creative coaching seems to be inspiring dynamic, creative play from the kids: exactly the right environment for them to develop. MSL may be unique among coaches in that he really doesn’t need the work; he’s set for life and coaching just for the passion of it. That offers a fundamental buffer against the constant pressure coaches feel to be risk-averse. And that sense of joy and confidence probably filters down to the team.

 

Another piece: I find it reassuring that our player development system will now be richly informed by analytics. MB’s player development was atrocious and I suspect the old-school mindset was a significant contributor to that. The responsible use of analytics should mitigate against any more absurdities like shoving Caufield on the fourth line. 

 

Regarding Dach: it’s too soon to declare officially that he’s “arrived.” However, he is showing he can thrive with skilled linemates. Whether he ever reverts to being a C, or can remain as dynamic on lower lines, are open questions. But I would leave him on that line for a good long time. Let him develop sufficient reserves of confidence that, when he is moved, he’ll be able to draw from them to try to drive the play.

 

 

 

Agree with your points. MB/Timmins brought/drafted a lot of these players into the fold including Harris so their track record won't look nearly as bad as some people thought it would be. However HuGo has really stepped it up and went full blown into rebuild mode which was badly needed. This team is young, fun to watch, and will only get better. Better times are here and the future looks good. Now get Caulfield signed to a Suzuki type contract!

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8 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Let’s hope he keeps it up to the trade deadline!

 

Absolutely!  I am very happy to see Monahan and Hoffman score. I have almost given up on Dadonov but you never know. I didn't think he played too bad last night. 

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9 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Let’s hope he keeps it up to the trade deadline!

I'd trade Hoffman the minute I got an even halfway decent offer ... I have no trust that he won't go back to not giving a Hoff.

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

I'd trade Hoffman the minute I got an even halfway decent offer ... I have no trust that he won't go back to not giving a Hoff.

I would as well, but I can’t see anyone having room to take him on until the deadline. Even than it’s a tough deal to make with the extra year he has, unless we took on 30% to 50%. If we took on salary it would be for this year and next which I’d like to avoid.

 

if we move Drouin and Edmondson and retained 50% of their salary this year, we’d probably get a better return, but that would use up our salary retention limit for this year.

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

To be fair - not that I lose sleep over Bergevin or Timmins  - Suzuki, Caufield, WiFi, and Guhle were all acquired by Bergevin/Timmins. And lest we leap to the conclusion that Bergevin could never have made deals akin to the Dach or Harris trades, we should remember that when he was asked to trade vets for prospects, he scored Danault and Suzuki. Drouin disaster aside, he was quite skilled at the trade table.

 

The real trump card from HuGo has been a move I was skeptical about at the time, i.e., hiring MSL. Bergevin’s coaches were a succession of play-it-safe, old-school plodders who approached young players as problems to be managed (or, in the case of Subban, a target to be crapped on). It was even worse at the AHL level, where we wasted five years of development on the incompetent Lefebvre. MSL’s dynamic, creative coaching seems to be inspiring dynamic, creative play from the kids: exactly the right environment for them to develop. MSL may be unique among coaches in that he really doesn’t need the work; he’s set for life and coaching just for the passion of it. That offers a fundamental buffer against the constant pressure coaches feel to be risk-averse. And that sense of joy and confidence probably filters down to the team.

 

Another piece: I find it reassuring that our player development system will now be richly informed by analytics. MB’s player development was atrocious and I suspect the old-school mindset was a significant contributor to that. The responsible use of analytics should mitigate against any more absurdities like shoving Caufield on the fourth line. 

 

Regarding Dach: it’s too soon to declare officially that he’s “arrived.” However, he is showing he can thrive with skilled linemates. Whether he ever reverts to being a C, or can remain as dynamic on lower lines, are open questions. But I would leave him on that line for a good long time. Let him develop sufficient reserves of confidence that, when he is moved, he’ll be able to draw from them to try to drive the play.

 

 

It’s pointless drafting players if you can’t develop them. Habs made a good deal for Suzuki, and had had Caufield fall on their laps. Neither took off and produced at this pace until they got St. Louis. If Bergevin had stayed we’d probably cycle through to Vigneult, who is not at all the type of coach this team needs right now. 
 

Who knows how KK, Galchenyuk and others would have turned out if we had a better player development staff and plan. We throw to many kids into the fire during key development years.   Hell, one of the biggest indictment on the development plan was having an idiot Lefebve for so long.

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14 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

It was a great game, and the play of the kids makes it look like we are not only on the right track, but we may be able to be a playoff team ahead of schedule. I figured it would be another two years, but we may be able to get back in next year. No way do I think that we are seriously a bubble team with a shot of making the playoffs this year. There’s too many teams in the east that will keep us out of even a wild card spot.

 

They are way ahead of a typical rebuild schedule, thats the main point I am making.  i.e. it shouldnt take 3-5 years of sucking and getting top 5 picks to rebuild.  Plus, like I've pointed out in another thread that model usually takes 10+ years to win a Cup.  Waiting over 10+ years isn't something that people should wish or strive for.

 

 

7 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:

Regarding Dach: while I am happy to see him thrive and he seems a good fit with 14/22. 
I recall not being so hyped when he wasn’t on that line and playing C.

Not that he was bad, but was not excitingly good either, so I am wondering if he is benefiting from the promotion and being with the dynamic duo?   Just speculating, haven’t thought this out.  
But do believe it would benefit teaM more if he could run his own line and have even close to such an impact on games.

 

 

You seem to understand my reasoning on Dach and I'm essentially speculating the same as you.  You've given it enough thought - its the people that are disagreeing with me that haven't. 

 

If Dach remains on that line I honestly don't think they will be able to resign him, but the good news is that maybe he can get the Habs 3 1st rnd picks if a team is dumb enough to give him a RFA offer sheet for the amount of $ he will believe he is worth.  Out of Cole, Nick and Kirby, who 1 is the top 5 pick?  I'm suggesting he'll want more $ than they will, when he is the least valuable of the 3 and isn't worth more.  That will be a big problem. 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

They are way ahead of a typical rebuild schedule, thats the main point I am making.  i.e. it shouldnt take 3-5 years of sucking and getting top 5 picks to rebuild.  Plus, like I've pointed out in another thread that model usually takes 10+ years to win a Cup.  Waiting over 10+ years isn't something that people should wish or strive for.

 

 

 

You seem to understand my reasoning on Dach and I'm essentially speculating the same as you.  You've given it enough thought - its the people that are disagreeing with me that haven't. 

 

If Dach remains on that line I honestly don't think they will be able to resign him, but the good news is that maybe he can get the Habs 3 1st rnd picks if a team is dumb enough to give him a RFA offer sheet for the amount of $ he will believe he is worth.  Out of Cole, Nick and Kirby, who 1 is the top 5 pick?  I'm suggesting he'll want more $ than they will, when he is the least valuable of the 3 and isn't worth more.  That will be a big problem. 

 

 

 

Sheesh.  Let's enjoy this rebuild. Not lament the future cost of the players that are in early stages of their careers.

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48 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Sheesh.  Let's enjoy this rebuild. Not lament the future cost of the players that are in early stages of their careers.

 

Agreed, Dach is signed for 4 years at what right now is looking like a pretty team friendly deal if he keeps this up. It is still early and 4 years is a long time.  Even after 4 years he will be an RFA not a UFA so Dach's contract is the least of my concerns. Suzuki is locked up for 8.  Caufield is the one that I hope gets done. 

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5 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

It’s pointless drafting players if you can’t develop them. Habs made a good deal for Suzuki, and had had Caufield fall on their laps.

Well ... 14 other teams had Caufield "fall in their laps", too, but none of them chose to pick him. So, Bergevin and Timmins do deserve some credit, at least, for that choice.

 

And, yes, St-Louis is absolutely better for development than Ducharme was.

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36 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Well ... 14 other teams had Caufield "fall in their laps", too, but none of them chose to pick him. So, Bergevin and Timmins do deserve some credit, at least, for that choice.

 

Although ... it was "reported" after the draft that Cam York was their pick until the Flyers took him one spot before the Habs selection.

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

Although ... it was "reported" after the draft that Cam York was their pick until the Flyers took him one spot before the Habs selection.

It could be, it could be. But we know that the other 14 chose NOT to pick Caufield, which most of them will be regretting now.

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