GDT Nov. 12, Penguins vs Habs, 7 PM

[DON]

12 hours ago, tomh009 said:

It could be, it could be. But we know that the other 14 chose NOT to pick Caufield, which most of them will be regretting now.

One redraft i saw now pegs Caufield at 11.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

14 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Although ... it was "reported" after the draft that Cam York was their pick until the Flyers took him one spot before the Habs selection.

 

"Reported" by who?  It was clear watching the draft documentary that when their turn to draft came up that they weren't trading the pick as they had an offer to move down 2 spots for an extra pick. Timmins quickly said no, they clearly wanted Caulfield with that pick.  Rumour has it that  they also would have taken Jack Hughes with that pick had he been available. Bottom line is they made a great pick. 

[GHT120]

6 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Rumour has it that  they also would have taken Jack Hughes with that pick had he been available. 

 

Really???????
  

 

7 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

"Reported" by who?  It was clear watching the draft documentary that when their turn to draft came up that they weren't trading the pick as they had an offer to move down 2 spots for an extra pick.

 

That of course being AFTER the Flyers had taken York ... apologies that I did not save reports from over three years ago.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

I am just trying to be fair to Bergevin/Timmins. They got enough grief on these boards for the bad picks they made. Let's give them a little credit for a great pick they made.  Caulfield was a great pick, period!

[alfredoh2009]

15 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Well ... 14 other teams had Caufield "fall in their laps", too, but none of them chose to pick him. So, Bergevin and Timmins do deserve some credit, at least, for that choice.

 

And, yes, St-Louis is absolutely better for development than Ducharme was.

 

13 hours ago, tomh009 said:

It could be, it could be. But we know that the other 14 chose NOT to pick Caufield, which most of them will be regretting now.

 

24 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

"Reported" by who?  It was clear watching the draft documentary that when their turn to draft came up that they weren't trading the pick as they had an offer to move down 2 spots for an extra pick. Timmins quickly said no, they clearly wanted Caulfield with that pick.  Rumour has it that  they also would have taken Jack Hughes with that pick had he been available. Bottom line is they made a great pick. 

 

thanks! I was going to bring that up too.

 

============

Watched on the PVR (trying to spend more time with my wife and kids). I like how the team is playing, it is definitely true that playing without pressure is helping most of the players. Some players are still lost: Armia? Dadonov? Anderson?

On Drouin: it seems to me that since his wrist injuries he has lost his NHL-level shot. Playing him on the PP to quarterack  from the blue line  may be a way MSL is trying to re-launch him. He is making some defensive plays, but is still lacks any physicality. He will be dealt at the deadline, and for that reason I will praise any positives until I see what the Habs can get for him.

 

[tomh009]

48 minutes ago, DON said:

One redraft i saw now pegs Caufield at 11.

Pronman's redraft (in the Athletic) last month had Caufield at 7 (and Dach at 10). Forwards ahead of them were Hughes at 1, Zegras at 3, Cozens at 4, Boldy at 6 and Kaliyev at 8.

 

I think Caufield would have been a great pick even at 7 ... and quite possibly better than Cozens and Boldy, at least.

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I am just trying to be fair to Bergevin/Timmins. They got enough grief on these boards for the bad picks they made. Let's give them a little credit for a great pick they made.  Caulfield was a great pick, period!

It has absolutely worked out that way ... but ***if*** they would have taken York had both been available then luck more than skill.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

 

 

thanks! I was going to bring that up too.

 

============

Watched on the PVR (trying to spend more time with my wife and kids). I like how the team is playing, it is definitely true that playing without pressure is helping most of the players. Some players are still lost: Armia? Dadonov? Anderson?

On Drouin: it seems to me that since his wrist injuries he has lost his NHL-level shot. Playing him on the PP to quarterack  from the blue line  may be a way MSL is trying to re-launch him. He is making some defensive plays, but is still lacks any physicality. He will be dealt at the deadline, and for that reason I will praise any positives until I see what the Habs can get for him.

 

 

Drouin has always had periods of time where he plays pretty well. The issue with him is simply that you can never, ever count on him. He is a fundamentally unreliable player. As that imbecile Therrien rightly commented, "it's always something" with that guy. That's just who he is. If we can get some sort of value back for him (a 3rd round pick might be the highest imaginable return?) I'll be happy.

[DON]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

It has absolutely worked out that way ... but ***if*** they would have taken York had both been available then luck more than skill.

York has 9 points in 11 AHL games this year, so may be a nice pick for Philly?

But, Habs dont need another LH d-man at the moment or near future.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 hours ago, GHT120 said:

It has absolutely worked out that way ... but ***if*** they would have taken York had both been available then luck more than skill.

 

We can go on forever with "if".  If the Bruins hadn't taken Pasternak right before Scherbak would the Habs have taken him?  Who knows??

 

You draft who you think is the best available player at the time and some time it works out. A lot of teams passed on Caulfield because they thought he was too small. Montreal didn't pass on him. A very smart decision. 

[hab29RETIRED]

3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Drouin has always had periods of time where he plays pretty well. The issue with him is simply that you can never, ever count on him. He is a fundamentally unreliable player. As that imbecile Therrien rightly commented, "it's always something" with that guy. That's just who he is. If we can get some sort of value back for him (a 3rd round pick might be the highest imaginable return?) I'll be happy.

Therrien could have said that about himself too🙄

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

On 11/13/2022 at 2:05 PM, hab29RETIRED said:

It’s pointless drafting players if you can’t develop them. Habs made a good deal for Suzuki, and had had Caufield fall on their laps. Neither took off and produced at this pace until they got St. Louis. If Bergevin had stayed we’d probably cycle through to Vigneult, who is not at all the type of coach this team needs right now. 
 

Who knows how KK, Galchenyuk and others would have turned out if we had a better player development staff and plan. We throw to many kids into the fire during key development years.   Hell, one of the biggest indictment on the development plan was having an idiot Lefebve for so long.

what a bunch of bull crap...  Galchenyuk faultering is on Galchenyuk and has nothing to do with development. He was given all the chances in the world! same goes for KK

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

what a bunch of bull crap...  Galchenyuk faultering is on Galchenyuk and has nothing to do with development. He was given all the chances in the world! same goes for KK

 

 

Development is a 2 way street. Both the player and the organization have responsibilities. Sometimes it's on the organization and sometimes the player has been coddled in junior or wherever and takes a long time to grow up.  I think it was a mistake for the Habs to keep KK with the team his 1st year and I also think KK showed a lot of immaturity at times but he was just a kid. 

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

Galchenyuk is NOT a Center... multiple teams and there systems have proved this to be true.

 

Kotkaniemi put up good numbers as a rookie and that 1st year in no way hurt his development. If anything injuries in his 1st 2 seasons hurt his development and that could of been attributed to not being physically ready (weight). But don't tell me an NHL players career is defined by what happened and were he played in his rookie season.

 

Galchenyuk didn't cut it.

KK bailed on us

[tomh009]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I think it was a mistake for the Habs to keep KK with the team his 1st year and I also think KK showed a lot of immaturity at times but he was just a kid. 

Just a kid ... living with his mom.

 

45 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Kotkaniemi put up good numbers as a rookie and that 1st year in no way hurt his development.

I don't think it hurt his development in the sense of getting sufficient exposure and getting instruction and coaching. But where he didn't develop so much, I think, was mental and emotional maturity. Compare this to Slafkovsky, who left home at 17 to play pro hockey in a strange country and an even stranger language.

[Sir_Boagalott]

7 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

You draft who you think is the best available player at the time and some time it works out. A lot of teams passed on Caulfield because they thought he was too small. Montreal didn't pass on him. 

 

Cole's size isn't the only reason why he wasn't in the top 10 and went at 15th.  A woman on Youtube has a great video on it and a lot of teams didnt draft BPA and opted for the position they needed.  i.e. numerous teams needed dmen and C's and 1 even drafted a G.  Cole was the 4th winger drafted that year.  

 

12 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

"Reported" by who?  It was clear watching the draft documentary that when their turn to draft came up that they weren't trading the pick as they had an offer to move down 2 spots for an extra pick. Timmins quickly said no, they clearly wanted Caulfield with that pick.  Rumour has it that  they also would have taken Jack Hughes with that pick had he been available. Bottom line is they made a great pick. 

 

You're completely missing the point though.  i.e. you don't "plan" to draft somebody at your draft position when you believe they'll already be taken by then.  They assumed he'd already be gone but when he was still available there was no chance they weren't taking him.  

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

21 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Cole's size isn't the only reason why he wasn't in the top 10 and went at 15th.  A woman on Youtube has a great video on it and a lot of teams didnt draft BPA and opted for the position they needed.  i.e. numerous teams needed dmen and C's and 1 even drafted a G.  Cole was the 4th winger drafted that year.  

 

 

You're completely missing the point though.  i.e. you don't "plan" to draft somebody at your draft position when you believe they'll already be taken by then.  They assumed he'd already be gone but when he was still available there was no chance they weren't taking him.  

 

My comment about Jack Hughes was a little sarcasm (my apologies for that). I agree with your comments. You really have no idea who will be available when you draft at 15 so you make a list and rate the players. When Caulfield became available there was no chance they were passing him up. I agree

 

Size perhaps wasn't the only reason Caulfield slipped in the draft but the major one. Elite scorers aren't easy to find and if he was 6 foot 190 lbs there is little doubt he would have gone much higher.