GDT Game #30 - Dec. 15, Ducks vs Habs, 7 PM

[DON]

I dont know enough about comparables, free agency, or contract stuff like, if 'bridge' (whatever that is) vs long term deal is better.

But like everyone will be curious how Hughes (with Gorton's & Molson's blessings?) doles out the $$.

 

So Slafvovski only had 72 seconds of ice in 3rd period, thought he out there more than that. Benching or injury?

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

If they get CC for 100-200K less than Suzuki for 5+ years they most certainly will cry tears of joy ... But I will be shocked if that happens ... I expect Caufield would be leaving at least a million per season on the table ... if not extended by July 1st, he COULD become a four first rounders  RFA target.

 

I agree, I will be thrilled if they can sign him for close to Suzuki term and money.  The evidence certainly seems to indicate that he will  be an elite scorer for a long time. Those players aren't easy to find.  I think CC makes a good point about his relationship (on and off the ice) with Suzuki. They make each other better players and hopefully it's  a factor in his decision. 

[dlbalr]

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Drouin gave the puck away in the Ozone as per usual. 

 

That one late in the game plus the pathetic attempt to defend on Henrique right after was telling.  He really looks like he's just going through the motions and it doesn't matter how much they want to showcase him, if he's that disinterested when he's on the ice, no one will bite. 

 

I'm at the point where I think Montreal's best case scenario is that he decides to take another leave of absence (or they invent another injury) and shut him down for the year.  He could at least be added to the LTIR pool then, making it easier to be a third-party facilitator in a trade.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

22 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

I'm at the point where I think Montreal's best case scenario is that he decides to take another leave of absence (or they invent another injury) and shut him down for the year.  He could at least be added to the LTIR pool then, making it easier to be a third-party facilitator in a trade.

 

Good point. I can't see much interest in Drouin at the deadline so LTIR room might be his most valuable asset. 

[GHT120]

26 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

... I'm at the point where I think Montreal's best case scenario is that he decides to take another leave of absence (or they invent another injury) and shut him down for the year.  He could at least be added to the LTIR pool then, making it easier to be a third-party facilitator in a trade.

 

$64,000 question is whether JD would go along with that ... sit him out for a few games and maybe he would.

[sbhatt]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

$64,000 question is whether JD would go along with that ... sit him out for a few games and maybe he would.

 

I like this idea...a lot.  Sit him down and tell him you have no intentions of actually playing him again, so if he'd like to be spared having to do the practices and workouts and the travel, only to sit in the pressbox every single night until the end of the season, he has to go along with LTIR.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

Some points people will agree with, some points people won’t like.

 

1) Anaheim’s 2nd regulation win of the season after 31 games. 👏 

 

2) Drouin has had some decent spells since being back. I thought he had a good game the other day until he had a huge gaffe at the offensive blue line which led to an empty netter. With that being said, he also had an assist and caused a penalty which was a borderline penalty shot due to his hustle. It is what it is in terms of fan perception, but I actually expect him to go on a decent run. Unfortunately for Drouin and the fanbase, a decent run for him could mean 10 points in 15 games along with a -11 total. 
 

3) Only a small annoyance, but I am getting tired, and have already been tired of padding the other team’s stats with poor goaltender pulling tactics. Sometimes it has potentially cost us the game as well. 

 

 

 

[Sir_Boagalott]

  

8 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

The Leafs mistake IMO was signing Tavares ... that tipped their cap distribution, as was suggested, too heavily to the forwards ... IMO it can be argued that it was also a bad contract (egregious can be a very subjective term) ... JT's contract is the 6th highest by AAV but since its signing he is 23rd in scoring ... AND ... it led to them trading Kahdri (although there were the playoff susp[ensiopn issues factored in to that.

 

I say the exact same thing but I say that its way more than just Kadri they lost to fit in Tavares.  i.e. they also lost Kapenen, Bogosian, Hyman, and theres 1 other NHL guy I'm forgetting, plus Verghehe or w/e his name is (an AHLer that became Flor leading playoff producer and never played 1 game with Leafs).  All of those guys had positive value contracts and are playoff producers (and doing well on their new teams), yet they got rid of them all.  Signing Tavares really made no sense for them considering they were already paying Mathews, Marner, and Nylander big time money.  

 

  

9 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

That is not the place to look for cap savings, nor is their excellence a “problem” because it requires big contracts. 

 

Really though?  Are you suggesting that Boston erred paying Bergeron, Marchand, Pasternak, and Hall under $7 mil/yr because they are their star players?  How about Tampa with Stammy @ 8.5 mil/yr when he's worth at least $10 mil/yr and Hedman @ under $8/yr?  The funny thing is with Tampa is they are bubble bound because they royally messed up paying Point, Kucherov, and Vasilevsky $9.5 mil and dumping McDoughnut's reasonable contract @ $6.75.  i.e. they should have jettisoned Point and kept McDoughnut.  

[dlbalr]

1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

  I say the exact same thing but I say that its way more than just Kadri they lost to fit in Tavares.  i.e. they also lost Kapenen, Bogosian, Hyman, and theres 1 other NHL guy I'm forgetting, plus Verghehe or w/e his name is (an AHLer that became Flor leading playoff producer and never played 1 game with Leafs). 

 

Were you thinking about James van Riemsdyk?  He left the year Tavares came.  They also had to pay to clear Patrick Marleau's deal at the time.

 

As for some others, Mason Marchment was one they traded but that wasn't because of Tavares, that was just a bad trade from Dubas.  Trevor Moore (who just signed a five-year extension yesterday) was in one of their deadline deals as was Sean Durzi (both in LA).  They've let some cost-controllable talent go.

[Sir_Boagalott]

3 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Were you thinking about James van Riemsdyk?  He left the year Tavares came.  They also had to pay to clear Patrick Marleau's deal at the time.

 

As for some others, Mason Marchment was one they traded but that wasn't because of Tavares, that was just a bad trade from Dubas.  Trevor Moore (who just signed a five-year extension yesterday) was in one of their deadline deals as was Sean Durzi (both in LA).  They've let some cost-controllable talent go.

 

No, I just remembered that it was Bozak that I was thinking of, but JVR could easily be viewed as yet another good player they had to dump but that was so they could afford their young guys.  Either way, its unarguable the Leafs had numerous guys that were underpaid and over producing for their contracts that they had to let go.  I can only imagine that Tampa will be in a similar position soon enough.  They are also paying numerous guys way too much money to ice a complete lineup.

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

...

Really though?  Are you suggesting that Boston erred paying Bergeron, Marchand, Pasternak, and Hall under $7 mil/yr because they are their star players?  How about Tampa with Stammy @ 8.5 mil/yr when he's worth at least $10 mil/yr and Hedman @ under $8/yr?  The funny thing is with Tampa is they are bubble bound because they royally messed up paying Point, Kucherov, and Vasilevsky $9.5 mil and dumping McDoughnut's reasonable contract @ $6.75.  i.e. they should have jettisoned Point and kept McDoughnut.  

 

I hardly think that is what he was suggesting ... I doubt anyone would ever suggest a team pay more than they have to ... but having talent whose performance has a high market value is not in and of itself an issue, it means they are great players ... if you can get them to buy-into a Boston-like "internal cap" more power to you, but doesn't often happen.

[tomh009]

14 hours ago, sbhatt said:

I like this idea...a lot.  Sit him down and tell him you have no intentions of actually playing him again, so if he'd like to be spared having to do the practices and workouts and the travel, only to sit in the pressbox every single night until the end of the season, he has to go along with LTIR.

If Drouin wants to be able to sign a contract for next year (anywhere, in any league), spending half the season on LTIR would not make that any easier.

[hab29RETIRED]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:38 AM, Commandant said:

 

Exactly.  The main reason people take the discount in Tampa is the tax situation, something we don't have in Quebec to entice them into the same discounts.  You can't really say oh Tampa got discounts, our GM needs to as well.  They aren't working in the same environment.

What about the Bruins. I hate Marchand, but have a little more respect for him after hearing the Nilan podcast where someone had said that Marchand wouldn’t consider making more money than Bergeron. Or, Bergeron, taking a lot less than he could have got so that there is room to sign other players.

[GHT120]

23 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

What about the Bruins. I hate Marchand, but have a little more respect for him after hearing the Nilan podcast where someone had said that Marchand wouldn’t consider making more money than Bergeron. Or, Bergeron, taking a lot less than he could have got so that there is room to sign other players.

BBs have had an "internal salary ceiling" going back many, many years and somehow got players to buy into it  ... some sort of off the books cap-chicanery?  ...  one Cup, two Finals in the last 25 years so it wasn't the rings ... it is a mystery to me ... but props to them for pulling it off.

[hab29RETIRED]

3 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

BBs have had an "internal salary ceiling" going back many, many years and somehow got players to buy into it  ... some sort of off the books cap-chicanery?  ...  one Cup, two Finals in the last 25 years so it wasn't the rings ... it is a mystery to me ... but props to them for pulling it off.

I don’t get it. They’ve got a hawkish owner, who was one of the biggest supporters for the cap, yet their players always seem to take less than market value.

[GHT120]

54 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t get it. They’ve got a hawkish owner, who was one of the biggest supporters for the cap, yet their players always seem to take less than market value.

It does seem like they operate a cult ... OR ... they have an impossible to prove/catch circumvention system with local businesses. 

[Commandant]

14 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

What about the Bruins. I hate Marchand, but have a little more respect for him after hearing the Nilan podcast where someone had said that Marchand wouldn’t consider making more money than Bergeron. Or, Bergeron, taking a lot less than he could have got so that there is room to sign other players.

 

Still lower taxes than Quebec. 

[GHT120]

44 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Still lower taxes than Quebec. 

Did some Googling and I was surprised to find that Massachusetts has the 19th lowest state income tax of the 50 states and is 8th out of 19 states/districts with NHL teams.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

15 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t get it. They’ve got a hawkish owner, who was one of the biggest supporters for the cap, yet their players always seem to take less than market value.

 

It’s a nice trick for sure. I think a large part of it is the accurate belief that the Bruins are an elite organization -arguably the best organization, year in and year out, of the past two decades - and that being there is likely the best chance you’ll have to win. Insofar as TB gets value contracts, that belief in the organization is probably also part of it.

 

A chicken and the egg dynamic. We look at teams with value contracts and go, “that’s why they’re contenders.” But the causal arrow also goes at least as powerfully in the other direction - players take a haircut there because the team is elite and they want to be part of that.

 

By contrast, the Habs have been largely a bubble team for the past 30 years and our last GM famously said “if you want loyalty, get a dog.” It’s perhaps not coincidental that, the last time we had a team that looked like it might have a chance to contend over a stretch of years, MaxPac signed for a comically huge discount. And we might have had PK on a sweetheart deal as well if Bergevin had not insisted on bridging him. Taxes will likely get in the way of any systematic “value contracts” in Montreal, but we may see guys signing to moderate deals if ands when we establish ourselves as a heavy-duty elite team with a good chance to contend for years to come.

[dlbalr]

17 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t get it. They’ve got a hawkish owner, who was one of the biggest supporters for the cap, yet their players always seem to take less than market value.

 

That's probably going to change this summer.  If they re-sign Pastrnak, it's going to be their richest deal in franchise history and no one expects a hometown discount this time around.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

That's probably going to change this summer.  If they re-sign Pastrnak, it's going to be their richest deal in franchise history and no one expects a hometown discount this time around.

 

No question they will have to pay up. McAvoy got 9.5M,  Pastrnak is an elite player and only 26. He is in a tremendous bargaining position.