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Game #32 - Habs at Arizona 10pm est


Prime Minister Koivu

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1 minute ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

I certainly disagree and for 2 reasons.  1) if they lose this game they will likely be the next team to lose 5 or more games in a row.  No thanks.   2)  If the Yotes get Beddard maybe that would convince Mathews to go home.  

 

17th to 24th is not where you want to finish. 25th or worse in a rebuild year is ideal in my view. Provided key players are developing. With that, I've seen enough of Hoffman and Dadanov. Give a youngster a shot.

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22 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

17th to 24th is not where you want to finish. 25th or worse in a rebuild year is ideal in my view. Provided key players are developing. With that, I've seen enough of Hoffman and Dadanov. Give a youngster a shot.

It’s probably so rare that the game that people wish the Habs lose because of the reasons stated actually make a difference come the end of the year. 

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11 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

It’s probably so rare that the game that people wish the Habs lose because of the reasons stated actually make a difference come the end of the year. 

Lose to Anaheim Chicago Buffalo Ottawa Phoenix is desirable.  For the same reason as beating a division rival for a playoff spot. 

Buffalo may have graduated from basement to bubble.

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I’m not here to change anyone’s mind but there are key differences.

 

1) I don’t equate fighting for a playoff spot as the same as fighting for last place in the league

 

1a) fighting for a playoff spot is good for the team.

 

1b) fighting for the tank is good to get 1 player, who will likely only have a slight impact on any future championship, relative to the reality that there are 18 other players on the ice in any given game.

 

This, in addition to the fact that a losing culture is bad for the current players, especially the youth, whereas winning develops our youth in a positive environment.

 

2) For all we know, Arizona goes on a 10 game winning streak immediately after this game. 4 point game? Whoopdy do.

 

Perhaps if the game were in April and we actually saw that it made a difference.

 

3) The Habs are the team we cheer for. It’s much different to cheer for the team against a division rival so we can make a playoff spot, rather than root for our team to lose for the opposite reason.

 

Personally, I don’t equate the two, but realize that some people do. 

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Nice win in OT! 🚨

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37 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

This, in addition to the fact that a losing culture is bad for the current players, especially the youth, whereas winning develops our youth in a positive environment.

 

I agree with your entire post, especially the above. 

 

I love when they are down by 3 in the last 2 mins of a game and seeing their delusional youthful spirit and them still trying to tie the game up.  No Habs fan should want to see otherwise.  

 

I'm basically cheering for other teams that I really dislike in which the Habs cant catch like Bos and Tor when they play teams the Habs might catch.  

 

At this point any 1 game between 2  teams is irrelevant, but there are certain days that can be more significant than others.   ex:  Habs win and the other bubble teams all lose.   

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I love watching them compete and win. I always do. But at this point I want another losing season. I've seen decades of perpetual bubble teams with not enough horses to be consistently competitive. A top 5 this year is what I want. I want guhle, Harris and slaf to continue developing. I want suzuki caufield dach to continue scoring and developing chemistry.  Beyond that. Burn it down for one more year. It's a losing team.  Let's at least get the reward at the end if the year. I'm good with just beating the Leafs, bruins and sens. Tell the losing culture stuff to new jersey. 

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I'm not here to change your mind, but:
 

7 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

1b) fighting for the tank is good to get 1 player, who will likely only have a slight impact on any future championship, relative to the reality that there are 18 other players on the ice in any given game.

 

Sydney Crosby, Patrick Kane, Steven Stamkos, Nathan MacKinnon, etc. are hardly just one of 18 skaters dressed for a game ... there are NEVER any guarantees in the draft, but in the right season it can make a substantial impact ... this is by all accounts one of those years ... and the draft position impacts every round ... for example, the OPPORTUNITY to select Adam Fox (2016, #66) instead of Will Bitten (#70) or Johnny Gaudreau (2011, #104) rather than Olivier Archambault (#108)

 

7 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

This, in addition to the fact that a losing culture is bad for the current players, especially the youth, whereas winning develops our youth in a positive environment.

 

Last season was imposed on the Habs by circumstance ... finishing near the bottom this season would hardly (IMO) constitute a "losing culture" ... Buffalo's 11 years out of the playoffs, the last nine sub .500, is a losing culture.

 

 

7 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

2) For all we know, Arizona goes on a 10 game winning streak immediately after this game. 4 point game? Whoopdy do.

 

Perhaps if the game were in April and we actually saw that it made a difference.

 

For all we know Arizona goes on a 10 game losing streak ... 2 points is two points ref90gardless of the date.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

 

 

1b) fighting for the tank is good to get 1 player, who will likely only have a slight impact on any future championship, relative to the reality that there are 18 other players on the ice in any given game.

 

8 picks (8 rounds) are affected, worse they do the higher the value of each pick and higher they are on waiver wire also i guess. So it isnt just the 1st round pick, if that matters much.

But, i agree and not gonna worry to much about NHL ranking  and am glad they won last night.:clap:

 

Guhle seems pretty darn smart player and Xhekaj shines again (2nd star).

The young d look bit overwhelmed at times, but love the icetime they are all getting, with the weakest link on the d being #6. 

https://www.habsworld.net/2022/12/habs-beat-coyotes-in-sloppy-affair/

 

Oh ya, Edmundson on for the OT winner seems odd choice (he deserved it or something i guess)?

 

Slafkovski just 2 shifts in 3rd again.

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10 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I’m not here to change anyone’s mind but there are key differences.

 

1) I don’t equate fighting for a playoff spot as the same as fighting for last place in the league

 

1a) fighting for a playoff spot is good for the team.

 

1b) fighting for the tank is good to get 1 player, who will likely only have a slight impact on any future championship, relative to the reality that there are 18 other players on the ice in any given game.

 

This, in addition to the fact that a losing culture is bad for the current players, especially the youth, whereas winning develops our youth in a positive environment.

 

2) For all we know, Arizona goes on a 10 game winning streak immediately after this game. 4 point game? Whoopdy do.

 

Perhaps if the game were in April and we actually saw that it made a difference.

 

3) The Habs are the team we cheer for. It’s much different to cheer for the team against a division rival so we can make a playoff spot, rather than root for our team to lose for the opposite reason.

 

Personally, I don’t equate the two, but realize that some people do. 

 

Great post. I tend to share this outlook, and I don’t remember ever cheering for the Habs to lose a game. Sometimes, when the team is terrible, I find myself not caring whether they win or lose. But *actively cheering against* the Montreal Canadiens? Not once. I just can’t do it. 

 

As bad as this group has looked in recent games - surely a regression to the mean - I have a hard time believing we will finish last overall unless one of our two stars up front goes down with a serious injury, which God forbid. Even our G looks solid with Montembault taking a step forward this year. So the notion of “taking hard for Bédard” just seems like a shibboleth to me. We’re not getting Bedard.

 

On the other hand, because this team is really not a very strong team, we’ll likely be in a position to get a top-10 pick regardless. That *should* bag us a very good player, provided our management group makes the right call. Seen this way, we can still cheer on the Habs to win on any given night, confident in the knowledge that they likely will lose enough to end up with a good draft position anyway.

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saw this one half sleep (tried to stay up, to make my own idea on the team), but missed why Slafkovsky paid less late in the game

 

Montembeault was great and that Hoffman shot was a laser guided rushing headlong

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Great post. I tend to share this outlook, and I don’t remember ever cheering for the Habs to lose a game. Sometimes, when the team is terrible, I find myself not caring whether they win or lose. But *actively cheering against* the Montreal Canadiens? Not once. I just can’t do it. 

 

As bad as this group has looked in recent games - surely a regression to the mean - I have a hard time believing we will finish last overall unless one of our two stars up front goes down with a serious injury, which God forbid. Even our G looks solid with Montembault taking a step forward this year. So the notion of “taking hard for Bédard” just seems like a shibboleth to me. We’re not getting Bedard.

 

On the other hand, because this team is really not a very strong team, we’ll likely be in a position to get a top-10 pick regardless. That *should* bag us a very good player, provided our management group makes the right call. Seen this way, we can still cheer on the Habs to win on any given night, confident in the knowledge that they likely will lose enough to end up with a good draft position anyway.


My perspective as well. I always go back to thinking about having a child and watching the game with them.  A fictional example, but seeing the child sad after a loss and telling them “it’s okay Jimmy, the Habs are trying to lose this year”.
 

I don’t think I would have become a fan of the Habs or sport if I grew up wishing the Habs would lose at any point. I’ve always wanted them to win every game. One could argue that a child is naive and “adults know better”, but I also think that a losing mentality goes against the grain when it comes to sport that it is so unrealistic to actively cheer for it, because there is not a single player on the team that are actively trying to achieve that result.

 

That type of mentality has to stem from someone who has not faced mental adversity in sport before, and the players we should want on the team need to be mentally strong and keep competing when faced with adversity. For the myriad of reasons mentioned already, I cannot be on the same page. But alas, you summed it up very well, and I agree. 

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Players don’t tank, nobody wants to lose! When you play, you play to win. 
 

Tanking is a management construct and is often obtained by trading away good players that won’t be part of the future. 
 

Strong drafting is the cornerstone and low picks give you a better opportunity at finding an impact player 

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16 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Plus, the Habs have so many forwards this year if a player has a hang nail they probably want to try to get LTIR for them so they can get cap space and open a roster spot for somebody that isnt playing.  

 

With some players maybe, but this lineup has a huge hole when Monahan isn't playing. 

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Great post. I tend to share this outlook, and I don’t remember ever cheering for the Habs to lose a game. Sometimes, when the team is terrible, I find myself not caring whether they win or lose. But *actively cheering against* the Montreal Canadiens? Not once. I just can’t do it. 

 

As bad as this group has looked in recent games - surely a regression to the mean - I have a hard time believing we will finish last overall unless one of our two stars up front goes down with a serious injury, which God forbid. Even our G looks solid with Montembault taking a step forward this year. So the notion of “taking hard for Bédard” just seems like a shibboleth to me. We’re not getting Bedard.

 

On the other hand, because this team is really not a very strong team, we’ll likely be in a position to get a top-10 pick regardless. That *should* bag us a very good player, provided our management group makes the right call. Seen this way, we can still cheer on the Habs to win on any given night, confident in the knowledge that they likely will lose enough to end up with a good draft position anyway.

 

People talk about last overall as if that's the only way to get the first pick though. 

 

It's not.  We were lucky last year to win the lottery.  Its basically only a 25% chance. 

 

And this draft is stacked in the top 3, stacked.... and beyond that probably has another 3 guys who would challenge Slaf for first overall if they were in the 2022 draft, so every spot matters a bit. 

i'm not cheering against them, but I'm not upset at losses and the further we fall is better. 

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23 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Players don’t tank, nobody wants to lose! When you play, you play to win. 
 

Tanking is a management construct and is often obtained by trading away good players that won’t be part of the future. 
 

Strong drafting is the cornerstone and low picks give you a better opportunity at finding an impact player 

 

Exactly, the players aren't in the mindset where they are trying to lose.  That's a strawman argument. 

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    I went into this season accepting that it is a development year.  No starting goalie.  No number one and a questionable number two defenseman. 4 rookies on defense.  Foreward Lineup full of inconsistent floaters and injury prone forwards.

     My outlook from the beginning was that as long as the youngsters develope, it's a good year. I don't really cheer to lose. That's impossible. But I've tried rationalize that losing this year is favorable, considering the draft class. 

     Can I hope that Monahan is extended by the Habs? Not a chance. Can I hope that they're going to to go get a goalie? No. Can I hope that they find a replacement for Markov? (No PP quarterback is the reason their PP sucks) No. Is there a goalie in the system? No. Is there a PP QB in the system? Maybe. Hutson looks pretty awesome. Here's hoping. 

    The last thing I want in a season of no hope, is to finish 17th and weaken the odds of the better pick. I get the logic that winning is good for development.  If it's a development year and the team finishes 10 spots ahead of where they should have, it could be argued that they are ahead in the rebuild. 

   I'm not cheering to lose.  I'm just trying to view the season as a whole. In my opinion, there is a big advantage to picking early this year.

 

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  • tomh009 changed the title to Game #32 - Habs at Arizona 10pm est

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