GDT Game #34 - Habs vs Stars 8:00 pm Friday Dec 23 2022

[Commandant]

With his current numbers his next contract isnt going to be big.  His trade value also isnt big.

 

The difference with Lehkonen is that he was producing offense when traded.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

On 12/23/2022 at 11:47 PM, Commandant said:

Who cares if they score an empty netter.  Losing by 1 or by 2 is the same result.

 

Even if your faceoffs have been bad, you have nothing to lose, you have to put faith in your players and at least try.

 

Leaving the goalie in is giving up and you never want to instill that mentality into the team.

Not talking about this instance specifically but St. Louis has been terrible at deciding when to pull the goalie. Not pulling your goalie with 3-4 minutes left is not giving up on the game, and there have been many instances where he has done something of the like. We go from having a chance, to not having a chance.

 

On 12/24/2022 at 11:27 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It’s not like we had a plethora of offensive stars up front, though. IF he keeps up his current 65-point pace - a big “if” - then perhaps it’s fair to condemn the lack of imagination on the part of our former coaches that led them to keep a guy with that upside relegated to a primarily defensive role. Water under the bridge, of course.

 

This also doesn’t really change your point as Lehkonen was indeed generally used in a defensive role, but just as recently as our last playoff appearance, Lehkonen was used on the top line with Danault and Gallagher. He was also used earlier in his career to replace Tatar on the top line with Pacioretty and Drouin. Regardless, not his primary use, and not much of a comparison talent wise to what he’s playing with now In Colorado.

[tomh009]

33 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Not talking about this instance specifically but St. Louis has been terrible at deciding when to pull the goalie. Not pulling your goalie with 3-4 minutes left is not giving up on the game, and there have been many instances where he has done something of the like. We go from having a chance, to not having a chance.

Maybe St-Louis views pulling the goalies as a learning experience for the team. Winning the games, or losing them by another goal or two, really doesn't matter so much this season.

[Commandant]

4 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Not talking about this instance specifically but St. Louis has been terrible at deciding when to pull the goalie. Not pulling your goalie with 3-4 minutes left is not giving up on the game, and there have been many instances where he has done something of the like. We go from having a chance, to not having a chance.

 

 

This also doesn’t really change your point as Lehkonen was indeed generally used in a defensive role, but just as recently as our last playoff appearance, Lehkonen was used on the top line with Danault and Gallagher. He was also used earlier in his career to replace Tatar on the top line with Pacioretty and Drouin. Regardless, not his primary use, and not much of a comparison talent wise to what he’s playing with now In Colorado.

 

Analytics will tell you that while you give upore empty netters by pulling with 3-4 minutes left, you also score more tying goals.  Thats why nearly every NHL team is doing it.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Analytics will tell you that while you give upore empty netters by pulling with 3-4 minutes left, you also score more tying goals.  Thats why nearly every NHL team is doing it.

Analytics also show that the Habs are top 5 worst in terms of success rate when it comes to playing with an empty net, and have allowed the second most goals against in the same situation. Perhaps the coach should make an adjustment based on the specific team he is working with, rather than follow a general trend.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Analytics also show that the Habs are top 5 worst in terms of success rate when it comes to playing with an empty net, and have allowed the second most goals against in the same situation. Perhaps the coach should make an adjustment based on the specific team he is working with, rather than follow a general trend.

I think if you look at the other team on the list (with a few outliers), their is one common theme, most of the teams suck, and having lousy years. Lousy teams are going to have a lower success rate, since they aren’t very good to begin with.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

22 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think if you look at the other team on the list (with a few outliers), their is one common theme, most of the teams suck, and having lousy years. Lousy teams are going to have a lower success rate, since they aren’t very good to begin with.

Exactly my point.

[Sir_Boagalott]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:35 PM, alfredoh2009 said:

Evans: 52 points over 166 games = 0.31ppg

Lehkonen: .41ppg, but with MTL: 147 over 396 = .37ppg

 

I am still of the opinion Evans has as much value as Lehkonen had, specially with his great PK play, cheaper contract than Lehks at the time and good FO%

 

 

Actually, I tend to agree with you and think you're making a solid point.  

 

The cap might only go up by $1 mil so any top team thats cap crunched could potentially be way more interested in players like Evans then they normally would be.  

 

Plus, the Habs have a bunch of C prospect that could replace Evans and for less money.   If any teams are interested in him it would make sense to move.  The Habs could get a slightly higher return than normal from any team that is desperate.    

 

  

On 12/24/2022 at 8:32 PM, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I think you could all be wrong here...

 

 

I wonder the same thing too.  It reminds me of when I would question the statement that Gally and Danault had great chemistry together.  They never should have played together because as soon as Danault wasnt playing with Gally he instantly became almost a 30g 60 pts guy. 

 

I'm not shocked at all that Lehks in a 60 pts guy with the Avs. 

 

 

[Commandant]

On 12/28/2022 at 7:31 PM, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Analytics also show that the Habs are top 5 worst in terms of success rate when it comes to playing with an empty net, and have allowed the second most goals against in the same situation. Perhaps the coach should make an adjustment based on the specific team he is working with, rather than follow a general trend.

 

The Habs are a bad team.  Their success rate is going to be worse than teams who are better than them.

 

This doesnt mean the Habs would do better by waiting to pull the goalie later.  It would probably make them even worse.

[BCHabnut]

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

The Habs are a bad team.  Their success rate is going to be worse than teams who are better than them.

 

This doesnt mean the Habs would do better by waiting to pull the goalie later.  It would probably make them even worse.

I would wait for offensive zone possession prolly.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I haven’t been the only one to comment on the timing of some of the goalie pulls this season. Some games have been alright, some games the timing has been off, whether it has been because of our positioning on the ice at the time of the pull, or another reason.

 

From my standpoint, there’s a reason I am discussing this topic this season and never have before, even though Patrick Roy started a trend years ago. 

[alfredoh2009]

6 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I haven’t been the only one to comment on the timing of some of the goalie pulls this season. Some games have been alright, some games the timing has been off, whether it has been because of our positioning on the ice at the time of the pull, or another reason.

 

From my standpoint, there’s a reason I am discussing this topic this season and never have before, even though Patrick Roy started a trend years ago. 

I agree with discussing this, some coaching decisions are questionable