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Game #38 - Habs vs Preds 8pm


Neech

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4 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:

With his play I don’t see Slaf killing it in AHL.  I don’t think he is benefitting from NHL anymore but also don’t see him performing well in minors either.

His hands are blocks, he looks claustrophobic out there and doesn’t have the sense/timing to get open when needed instead of being there a second or two early and ends up being covered.

He should have been left in Europe.   Poor kid can’t seem to grasp this opportunity an d looks disengaged on the ice and on the bench, I don’t think he has the mental fortitude to deal with all of this losing and being dominated.  Took another decent hit last night b/c he took to long to decide and distribute the puck.  AHL will hammer him and don’t think he is safe there.  


I'd like management to loan him to Kladno for the remainder of the season, on the condition that Jagr drags him to the gym and works with him at practice.

 

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Captain Obvious observations:


Baron / Edmundson we’re horrible.

Evans was terrible last night, showed no sense a few times and why he has no offensive upside.  Went for change after this penalty when could ha ve made it a 3 on 1 or at least 3 on 2, nope gonna disrupt my own team and then skate away from play and to the bench.  He needed to step up with Monny down and has not done it at all.  Even his defensive play was “meh”.

Monty was also terrible, seems

the regression to the mean is underway.

 

Suzuki looked tired, easy to contain last night, yes that line created some chances but felt majority were due to PP and Dach working hard to maintain/ retrieve pucks.   The 14/22 dependence is too obvious.

CC needs to learn some moves besides the shot on the PP, teams know it is coming and he refuses to adapt.    Suzuki has been a negative (+/-) for majority of games the past month (all but one I believe), is it worth being a one-lined team so CC gets goals when the line itself is losing matchups every night?  Padding stats is great and all, but how is that helping the team?  


Was painful to watch that game and I am at the point I came to last year where my interest in the youth/progress is waning and ability to sit through and watch an entire period/game is almost gone.

Was at two games pre Xmas and regretted spending the money as it wasn’t the usual treat of seeing Habs live, it made me regret spending money on this team.

St. Louis doesn’t seem to have the answers, don’t see how he could be expected to but going to be a long rest of season, saw next to no pushback, desire to win from anyone on the Habs. 

 

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18 minutes ago, sbhatt said:


I'd like management to loan him to Kladno for the remainder of the season, on the condition that Jagr drags him to the gym and works with him at practice.

 

Prolly best idea, couldn’t hurt.

Slaf is showing no improvement since first few games, no idea why they’re keeping him around this tire fire of “professionals”.   I was holding off on judging that decision b/c I thought he’d grow into the speed, decision making but he isn’t and may never.  If this was his draft year, even given he is playing in NHL against that level I still wouldn’t pick him in top 3.

I honestly see no skills that have improved with him, he continue an to put himself in bad spots and I’ve seen him floating on back  check a few times.   I see no grit, effort. I see complacency and a kid that is just happy to be here.  Not a dig at him, just not good prognosis for growth.

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Are guys afraid to hit/fight in front of the mom’s?  Seriously where was the sense of battle and compete, been absent since pre mom trip but c’mon send the moms home and tell the team if they don’t play to win they’re sitting in press box. Bunch of sissies out there.

Embarrassing play in front of family.   Keep the family trips for a treat when the team is worthy.  Focus on the game y’a bunch of filthy professionals. 
Walking in with cowboy hats like it’s a vacation, when you suck at your job would piss off this guy if they were my employees. 

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26 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:

Prolly best idea, couldn’t hurt.

Slaf is showing no improvement since first few games, no idea why they’re keeping him around this tire fire of “professionals”.   I was holding off on judging that decision b/c I thought he’d grow into the speed, decision making but he isn’t and may never.  If this was his draft year, even given he is playing in NHL against that level I still wouldn’t pick him in top 3.

I honestly see no skills that have improved with him, he continue an to put himself in bad spots and I’ve seen him floating pinball check a few times.   I see no grit, effort. I see complacency and a kid that is just happy to be here.  Not a dig at him, just not good prognosis for growth.

 

How is time in Europe going to help him learn the North American game? This is part of what’s insane in the decision to leave him on the big club. Not only is he an 18-year old - and not one who is preternaturally talented, like Bedard - but he is being thrown into a new ice surface and a new culture at the very highest level. It’s bonkers for anyone other than a prodigious talent.

 

IMHO, he should indeed have gone to the AHL. If he struggled there, which would NOT speak very well to his potential as an elite prospect, then a shift backward to Europe would be the next step.

 

I could not agree more with your last sentences. He is an absolute, complete passenger out there. And what can happen when a kid is allowed to be a passenger night in and night out is that he internalizes that it’s acceptable to be one; the longer it goes on, the more that becomes his identity as a player. 2-3 years from now, we might hear him talking in interviews about how it’s “time for me to step up.” Problem is, if you’ve spent your early career not stepping up, it’s hard to figure out how to do it, and you haven’t internalized the habits needed to be a driver of the game night in and night out. See KK.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

From the very beginning of the season, I’ve been hollering that the kid should be down in Laval learning to dominate. Instead they insist on keeping him here, learning how to be a passenger. It’s KK all over again. Hopefully he is not absorbing the toxic lesson that KK seems to have done, i.e., that he is entitled to a roster spot irrespective of performance. 

 

On Edmundson, his play has been a surprise to me, as he won me over during 2021 and I’ve thought highly of him since. Meanwhile David Savard has quietly re-established himself as a veteran warrior. It does seem likely that Edmundson will be dealt (probably for significant return) at the deadline.

 

 

God help us.

 

 


I wanted to highlight your Savard comment because you are exactly right. Savard is quietly playing very solid defensive hockey and he does so without complaining or hurting the team by bad hits or giveaways. 
 

Savard is not a great puck carrier or great at zone breakouts but he has been consistent in his Dzone play 

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2 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:

With his play I don’t see Slaf killing it in AHL.  I don’t think he is benefitting from NHL anymore but also don’t see him performing well in minors either.

His hands are blocks, he looks claustrophobic out there and doesn’t have the sense/timing to get open when needed instead of being there a second or two early and ends up being covered.

He should have been left in Europe.   Poor kid can’t seem to grasp this opportunity an d looks disengaged on the ice and on the bench, I don’t think he has the mental fortitude to deal with all of this losing and being dominated.  Took another decent hit last night b/c he took to long to decide and distribute the puck.  AHL will hammer him and don’t think he is safe there.  

OHL trade deadline is next Monday ... if one of the top teams could pull off a trade for his rights, I would be OK with giving him the rest of the season in junior ... Kitchner would mean a reunion with Mesar ... but they are in a wildcard chase and are a fairly young team ... do they want to give up future for now?

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Jeez let's not go overboard here, people. Slaf at 18 isn't a disaster by any means, especially on this turd of a roster. The AHL is a fine level for him to get more minutes against pros. 

 

I still don't get why we didn't send him to the Juniors, but I don't think it makes much of a difference in the long run.

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2 hours ago, Neech said:

Jeez let's not go overboard here, people. Slaf at 18 isn't a disaster by any means, especially on this turd of a roster. The AHL is a fine level for him to get more minutes against pros.

 

I still don't get why we didn't send him to the Juniors, but I don't think it makes much of a difference in the long run.

 

My only concern with Laval is that he might be under an even greater microscope as the media floods North ... every breath he takes, every move he makes make, every slapshot he takes, every stick he breaks, they'll be watching him.

 

As for juniors, I am a believer in the "dominate" theory ... that dominating at a lower level helps develop the confidence necessary to optimize success at the higher level.

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7 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

My only concern with Laval is that he might be under an even greater microscope as the media floods North ... every breath he takes, every move he makes make, every slapshot he takes, every stick he breaks, they'll be watching him.

The level of media coverage in Laval is surely less than 1/10 of the Habs' media coverage.

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41 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

The level of media coverage in Laval is surely less than 1/10 of the Habs' media coverage.

Not once the FIRST OVERALL PICK OF THE 2022 NHL DRAFT arrives there ... RDS, JoM TVA Sports et al can buy Metro cards too.

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19 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Not once the FIRST OVERALL PICK OF THE 2022 NHL DRAFT arrives there ... RDS, JoM TVA Sports et al can buy Metro cards too.

Any Laval coverage takes people (staff) away from the Habs coverage, so it will always be a lower priority.

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Just now, tomh009 said:

Any Laval coverage takes people (staff) away from the Habs coverage, so it will always be a lower priority.

Lower doesn't mean it won't be multiples of what it is now and with it solely focused on Slafkovsky it could be very disruptive.

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8 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:

With his play I don’t see Slaf killing it in AHL.  I don’t think he is benefitting from NHL anymore but also don’t see him performing well in minors either.

His hands are blocks, he looks claustrophobic out there and doesn’t have the sense/timing to get open when needed instead of being there a second or two early and ends up being covered.

He should have been left in Europe.   Poor kid can’t seem to grasp this opportunity an d looks disengaged on the ice and on the bench, I don’t think he has the mental fortitude to deal with all of this losing and being dominated.  Took another decent hit last night b/c he took to long to decide and distribute the puck.  AHL will hammer him and don’t think he is safe there.  

He should have been sent to a junior team to get used to NA ice and game, and playing a high number of games. That would have made his participation in the WJC automatic. Would have saved a year on in his entry level as well. 
 

The handling of Slafkovsky is really the only bad move this Mgmt team has made so far. But it’s a pretty big mistake.

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8 hours ago, GHT120 said:

OHL trade deadline is next Monday ... if one of the top teams could pull off a trade for his rights, I would be OK with giving him the rest of the season in junior ... Kitchner would mean a reunion with Mesar ... but they are in a wildcard chase and are a fairly young team ... do they want to give up future for now?

 

If they didn't loan him to the WJC, I think it's safe to say they won't loan him to junior to play 2-5 months at that level.

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4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He should have been sent to a junior team to get used to NA ice and game, and playing a high number of games. That would have made his participation in the WJC automatic. Would have saved a year on in his entry level as well. 
 

The handling of Slafkovsky is really the only bad move this Mgmt team has made so far. But it’s a pretty big mistake.

 

We really don't know if it's a mistake or not. It may look bad to us but we don't have the inside information.

 

He's such a long term project that I don't care what happens this year as long as he doesn't get hurt or lose his confidence.

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56 minutes ago, Neech said:

 

We really don't know if it's a mistake or not. It may look bad to us but we don't have the inside information.

 

He's such a long term project that I don't care what happens this year as long as he doesn't get hurt or lose his confidence.

He’s not playing with a lot of confidence. I think it would have gotten a boast playing more meaningful minutes and situations at the WJC, than playing in the 4th line with plugs and losing.

 

Not sure  how much more inside info is needed, other than seeing him play meaningless minutes, get Icked every 2 to 4 games. But hey it’s a good marketing opportunity to play your #1 pick and get rid of doubt for the puck by having him in the NHL. Even though most nights he doesn’t look like he belongs.
 

Like I said earlier, this is the only move by the new Mgmt team I hated from the start, and don’t see the logic of burning a year, when he doesn’t look like he belongs, and he is not really helping the team. If anything, he may end up with a few bad concussions before the season is over.

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8 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He’s not playing with a lot of confidence. I think it would have gotten a boast playing more meaningful minutes and situations at the WJC, than playing in the 4th line with plugs and losing.

 

Not sure  how much more inside info is needed, other than seeing him play meaningless minutes, get Icked every 2 to 4 games. But hey it’s a good marketing opportunity to play your #1 pick and get rid of doubt for the puck by having him in the NHL. Even though most nights he doesn’t look like he belongs.
 

Like I said earlier, this is the only move by the new Mgmt team I hated from the start, and don’t see the logic of burning a year, when he doesn’t look like he belongs, and he is not really helping the team. If anything, he may end up with a few bad concussions before the season is over.

 

My guess is that it’s less about marketing - is anyone paying tickets to see Slaf drift uselessly through games? - than about their faith in MSL as a developer of young talent.  Or perhaps, as someone posted a little while ago (I forget who, sorry), perhaps it’s even about their lack of faith in the AHL coaching staff. But I suspect the former.

 

If I’m right, then that’s still pretty foolish, since there is no real evidence that MSL is anything special in developing youth. 

 

9 hours ago, Neech said:

 

We really don't know if it's a mistake or not. It may look bad to us but we don't have the inside information.

 

He's such a long term project that I don't care what happens this year as long as he doesn't get hurt or lose his confidence.

 

I like the emphasis on the long game, but I still believe, as a general rule, that the best strategy for developing players is to let them marinade in the minors until they have nothing more to learn there, and are good and ready to assume NHL responsibilities. In my view, THAT is what playing the long game means. The Habs have been trying to short-circuit this truth since at least Carey Price. They got away with it in his case…barely. We should remember how close even Price came to completely melting down and being run out of town.

 

Slaf may eventually go on to become the impact power winger we all hope he can be, of course. But I’m with Habs29. We are playing with fire, completely needlessly.

 

EDIT: speaking of playing with fire, I noticed this link on the main page. Lots of legit insight here: https://cheeringthelogo.ca/2023/01/04/habs-management-playing-with-fire/

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3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Slaf may eventually go on to become the impact power winger we all hope he can be, of course. But I’m with Habs29. We are playing with fire, completely needlessly.

Well, is a big group who provide opinions (Lapointe-Gotrton-Scouts-Hughes-Ramage....) And it aint like they dont have as much NHL experience as fans and i dont think they are keeping him with club for PR reasons.

Will be interesting to see how Mgmt manage him.

 Lots of kids struggle as top pick in rookie years and end up fine,  

Like a Joe Thorton, just as one example.

55 3 4 7

 

Others seems fine, like a Galchenyuk, but.

48 9 18 27

 

 

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42 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I like the emphasis on the long game, but I still believe, as a general rule, that the best strategy for developing players is to let them marinade in the minors until they have nothing more to learn there, and are good and ready to assume NHL responsibilities. In my view, THAT is what playing the long game means. The Habs have been trying to short-circuit this truth since at least Carey Price. They got away with it in his case…barely. We should remember how close even Price came to completely melting down and being run out of town.

 

 

The difference now is that our NHL coaching team is specifically focused on development. It was absolutely the wrong move back in the day with Price and Latendresse etc and the sink or swim mentality, but at this point the NHL level might actually be the best place for Slaf to learn. Again, we really don't know, but I give the benefit of the doubt to the new regime which is explicitly prioritizing development.

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I don't think that playing 10 minutes/game on a line with Evans/Armia is necessarily the development path I would choose for Slaf, who seems to me like a Pacioretty draft pick. Patches, for what it's worth, stated he'd rather be top line in AHL vs bottom 6 NHL. I'm unsure of the reluctance to send Slaf to the AHL. There shouldn't be any negative optics around a 1st overall not being in the NHL (Owen Power?). If you trust in the development staff you've hired at the minor league level, then there should be no reason to doubt his development in the AHL. 

 

Of the top 7 draft picks in 2022, Slaf was the only one not to be at the WJC.

 

Folks were losing their minds at Caufield being underutilized with Ducharme. It's the same story with Slaf and St. Louis. Either use him, or demote him.

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6 minutes ago, huzer said:

I don't think that playing 10 minutes/game on a line with Evans/Armia is necessarily the development path I would choose for Slaf ...

 

At this point I suspect the "development" served by the 4th line may be adapting to the North American ice surface and style of play ... IMO the NHL doesn't seem like the right place to be doing it.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Well, is a big group who provide opinions (Lapointe-Gotrton-Scouts-Hughes-Ramage....) And it aint like they dont have as much NHL experience as fans and i dont think they are keeping him with club for PR reasons.

Will be interesting to see how Mgmt manage him.

 Lots of kids struggle as top pick in rookie years and end up fine,  

Like a Joe Thorton, just as one example.

55 3 4 7

 

Others seems fine, like a Galchenyuk, but.

48 9 18 27

 

 

Joe Thornton was seen as a can’t miss prospect. But like Slafkovsky he was Jumbo, and probably needed time to grow in his body.

 

what I don’t understand is the reluctance to assign him to the juniors for a year to acclimatize to the NA game, get used to playing a lot of game and travel, with the added benefit of not burning a year from his entry level contract.  
 

To me anyways, it would have made more sense to work with the CHL on getting Slafkovsky’s rights moves to a team with a chance at winning, letting him develop there for another year. Or they could have tried getting him on the same time as Mesar. I would have liked the to have him play heavy minutes, learn the NA game, and dominate among his age group before bringing him up.

 

It just didn’t make sense having him here. This team was going to suck. It wasnt a year that there was a consensus can’t miss NHL first round prospect. They should have also looked at how Power benefited from a year at college, despite Buffalo trying to convince him to forego college. There was absolutely nothing he was going to contribute to the habs success this year, other than learning how to lose. It just made zero sense.  

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40 minutes ago, huzer said:

I don't think that playing 10 minutes/game on a line with Evans/Armia is necessarily the development path I would choose for Slaf, who seems to me like a Pacioretty draft pick. Patches, for what it's worth, stated he'd rather be top line in AHL vs bottom 6 NHL. I'm unsure of the reluctance to send Slaf to the AHL. There shouldn't be any negative optics around a 1st overall not being in the NHL (Owen Power?). If you trust in the development staff you've hired at the minor league level, then there should be no reason to doubt his development in the AHL. 

 

Of the top 7 draft picks in 2022, Slaf was the only one not to be at the WJC.

 

Folks were losing their minds at Caufield being underutilized with Ducharme. It's the same story with Slaf and St. Louis. Either use him, or demote him.

100% agree. Hughes has turned out just fine despite my opinion that NJD should have guided him into playing college for a year, but again, he was still a more consensus top pick then Slafkovsky. 
 

aside from development concerns, the way he seems to keep getting smoked every few games, makes me concerned about potential concussion issues.

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  • tomh009 changed the title to Game #38 - Habs vs Preds 8pm

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