Jump to content

Ranking GMs Post Serge Savard


Plutarch

Recommended Posts

These are basically the GMs I have some memory of. I was alive for the last cup win and tail end of Serge Savard but I don't have any memory of it...

 

Rejean Houle: 1995-2000

Andre Savard: 2000-2003

Bob Gainey: 2003-2010

Pierre Gauthier: 2010-2012

Marc Bergevin: 2012-2021

 

In my mind they go like this...

Can't decide on Gainey/Bergevin but then A. Savard, Gauthier, Houle.

 

Thoughts? For some reason A. Savard doesn't have a real place in my memory.

 

 

Top Two

Bergevin

- hey got a cup final and a conference final

- gifted most his core though by Gainey drafts

- failed to ultimately build a real contender

- sweeeeeet trades

- very less sweet development

- very enjoyable media presence after Gauthier and all that shit. For what that's worth.

 

Gainey

- it's kinda hard to rate him because of rumors he delegated a lot due to the tragic passing of his daughter.

 

- But anyways trades/signings. The Gomez trade has to be balanced out by the Patches/George's trade. Plus that culture purge to move on from Kovalev/Komi/Higgins/Lats to give Price a better environment and signing Gionta/Gomez/Cammalleri. Led to the Halak run, one of my favourite hockey memories.

 

- drafting... Best of anyone on the list. Sure missed some 1st round picks but strong depth drafting.

 

The Other Guy

A. Savard

I mean acquiring Gilmour was hilarious to see leaf fans get upset...

 

God Why Did You Happen

Gauthier

- I hate this man. All the negativity from former players about his time as GM... Spacek, Gill, Cammalleri. Everyone was saying it.

- trading up to draft tinordi, the Halak trade and apperent lack of shopping...

- also just seemed like a miserable human lol

 

Houle

- I think we all know, as much as I have immense distain for Gauthier. Houle was something else. Oh the trades... Roy, Recchi VinnyD, Tucker, ROY.... Missing on like every 1st round choice... Yikes.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Houle: one of the worst GMs in NHL history, so absolutely last on this list. Threw away good and great pieces and dismantled the organization from top to bottom. Left devastation in his wake; when Andre Savard took over and was asked what his priority was, he replied “to get some NHL players.” That single phrase shows better than anything what a disaster Houle was.

 

Goat: seemed to be a good hockey man, contributed greatly to the strong core pieces that MB inherited, but obviously did not understand how to manage people. Second worst.

 

Savard: I liked him and thought he did some good things and was underrated. He began the process of righting the ship after Houle, but his body of work is too modest to say much.

 

Gainey: his career was broken into two parts - Rebuild 1.0, done properly and patiently, but unsuccessfully; and Rebuild 2.0, done via free agent signings and leading to both the Semi-Final run of 2010 and the Gomez disaster. I feel Bob was rather unlucky as GM. Markov got hurt, key patch up acquisitions like Lang suffered career-compromising injuries, Gomez collapsed at age 31, and well-regarded picks like Higgins and Komisarek turned into pumpkins. At the end of the day, though, Rebuild 1.0 failed due to organizational incompetence at player development and a failure to build a winning culture. That’s on him. He also restored the Habs as a relevant, respected NHL organization. That’s also on him.

 

Bergevin: I like your summary - an ace at the trade table, except for the execrable Drouin trade, and a complete disaster at drafting and development. Was more concerned with rewarding his personal mafia than with organizational excellence. He was gifted a strong hand with the four Ps (Price, PK, Patches, and Pleks) as well as Gally and Markov. Added the 5th P (Petry) but he basically frittered away the strong hand he inherited. His brilliant moves in the summer of 2020 created a team that was built for the playoffs and reached the Finals - an achievement that redeems him from the charge of total mediocrity. On the other hand, the Run of 21 was a one-and-done, the heroic last gasp of an aging core, and we only escaped complete and long-running cap hell because both Weber and Price suffered career-ending injuries. Very, very “lucky” in a perverse way.

 

Cucumber’s provisional verdict:

 

BEST

Gainey

 

CLOSE 2nd:

Bergevin

 

3rd:

Savard

 

4th:

Goat

 

5Th:

Houle, possibly the worst NHL GM of the past four decades other than Mad Mike Milbury.

 

TOO SOON TO TELL:

 

HUGO

 

None of them have excelled. Serge Savard was miles above any of these; none of them are fit to hold his jockstrap, as GM.

 

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... None of them have excelled. Serge Savard was miles above any of these; none of them are fit to hold his jockstrap, as GM.

 

THIS is the key ... whoever is placed first is still at best IMO a mediocre GM.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rejean Houle (Oct'1995 – Nov'2000): 3 playoff appearances

Andre Savard (Nov'2000 – Jun'2003) : 1 playoff appearance

Bob Gainey (Jun'2003 – Feb'2010) :1 division title and 4 playoff appearances

Pierre Gauthier (Feb'2010 – Mar'2012) : 2 playoff appearances

Marc Bergevin (May'2012 – Nov'2021) : Lost in Stanley Cup Finals (2021), 3 division titles and 6 playoff appearances

Hugh-Gort (now)

* Salary cap was introduced after the cancellation of the 2004-2005 season (Gainey's tenure).

* shortened the 2012–13 NHL season (first year of Bergevin)

 

I started on this forum in 2009, but only stated posting mid-way during Bergevin's tenure because I thought he was not being given the credit for taking an average team and bringing it to bubble status while not trading prospects and young core players. I agree with most of the assessments above, although I would use milder qualifiers:

 

My grades:

Most bang for the buck: Begevin

Close 2nd, affected by loss of daughter: Gainey

Promising: Hugh-Gort

Underwhelming: Savard

Worst: Gauthier

Out of his league: Houle

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... I thought he was not being given the credit for taking an average team and bringing it to bubble status while not trading prospects and your core players ...

 

And I started as a Bergevin supporter but lost quickly faith as, IMO, the team he was largely handed naturally grew into bubble status based on that talent and then regressed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

And I started as a Bergevin supporter but lost quickly faith as, IMO, the team he was largely handed naturally grew into bubble status based on that talent and then regressed.

 

He shut out media to prevent leaks of potential trades. He became sour and clammed up around the time PK/Weber trade and that turned off most fans.

 

In retrospect, he was a capable GM that was never given the mandate to rebuild.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

THIS is the key ... whoever is placed first is still at best IMO a mediocre GM.

 

I would tend to rate Gainey and Bergevin as "adequate" (much as I loathe Bergevin). Maybe "average" is the word that really captures it. The other four were either garbage (Houle and Goat) or "Insufficient data" (Savard, HuGo).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of all the trades made by the GM's mentioned the Gomez trade has to be the biggest head shaker for me. In a salary cap world you would generally have to provide a sweetener to dump a contract like Gomez.  Gainey was happy to give up McDonough and Higgins to take it on.  He was absolutely taken to the cleaners on that one. That trade absolutely ruined any positive thoughts I had about Gainey as a GM. 

 

MB did some good things but was inconsistent, Houle was in over his head, Gauthier was no good while Savard was ok but nothing great. I have higher hopes for Hughes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Houle: one of the worst GMs in NHL history, so absolutely last on this list. Threw away good and great pieces and dismantled the organization from top to bottom. Left devastation in his wake; when Andre Savard took over and was asked what his priority was, he replied “to get some NHL players.” That single phrase shows better than anything what a disaster Houle was.

 

Goat: seemed to be a good hockey man, contributed greatly to the strong core pieces that MB inherited, but obviously did not understand how to manage people. Second worst.

 

Savard: I liked him and thought he did some good things and was underrated. He began the process of righting the ship after Houle, but his body of work is too modest to say much.

 

Gainey: his career was broken into two parts - Rebuild 1.0, done properly and patiently, but unsuccessfully; and Rebuild 2.0, done via free agent signings and leading to both the Semi-Final run of 2010 and the Gomez disaster. I feel Bob was rather unlucky as GM. Markov got hurt, key patch up acquisitions like Lang suffered career-compromising injuries, Gomez collapsed at age 31, and well-regarded picks like Higgins and Komisarek turned into pumpkins. At the end of the day, though, Rebuild 1.0 failed due to organizational incompetence at player development and a failure to build a winning culture. That’s on him. He also restored the Habs as a relevant, respected NHL organization. That’s also on him.

 

Bergevin: I like your summary - an ace at the trade table, except for the execrable Drouin trade, and a complete disaster at drafting and development. Was more concerned with rewarding his personal mafia than with organizational excellence. He was gifted a strong hand with the four Ps (Price, PK, Patches, and Pleks) as well as Gally and Markov. Added the 5th P (Petry) but he basically frittered away the strong hand he inherited. His brilliant moves in the summer of 2020 created a team that was built for the playoffs and reached the Finals - an achievement that redeems him from the charge of total mediocrity. On the other hand, the Run of 21 was a one-and-done, the heroic last gasp of an aging core, and we only escaped complete and long-running cap hell because both Weber and Price suffered career-ending injuries. Very, very “lucky” in a perverse way.

 

Cucumber’s provisional verdict:

 

BEST

Gainey

 

CLOSE 2nd:

Bergevin

 

3rd:

Savard

 

4th:

Goat

 

5Th:

Houle, possibly the worst NHL GM of the past four decades other than Mad Mike Milbury.

 

TOO SOON TO TELL:

 

HUGO

 

None of them have excelled. Serge Savard was miles above any of these; none of them are fit to hold his jockstrap, as GM.

 

 


I agree with all of this. 
 

Both Bergevin and Gainey made one horrendous trade each. 
 

Gainey handed goat and Bergevin a pretty solid core and I’m not impressed that Bergevin never solved our centre issue. Glaring hole that he never believed he could fill. 
 

What is depressing is that not one of those past GMs were exceptional and they all made bad mistakes of different varieties. 
 

Im hoping HuGo can avoid big blunders and I at least like the things they have done and the direction they are going. Let’s see if their drafting works out and if the development changes make a real long term difference. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

He shut out media to prevent leaks of potential trades. He became sour and clammed up around the time PK/Weber trade and that turned off most fans.

 

In retrospect, he was a capable GM that was never given the mandate to rebuild.

 

For whatever it is worth ... talking about the  GM hiring interview process

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Houle: one of the worst GMs in NHL history, so absolutely last on this list. Threw away good and great pieces and dismantled the organization from top to bottom. Left devastation in his wake; when Andre Savard took over and was asked what his priority was, he replied “to get some NHL players.” That single phrase shows better than anything what a disaster Houle was.

 

Goat: seemed to be a good hockey man, contributed greatly to the strong core pieces that MB inherited, but obviously did not understand how to manage people. Second worst.

 

Savard: I liked him and thought he did some good things and was underrated. He began the process of righting the ship after Houle, but his body of work is too modest to say much.

 

Gainey: his career was broken into two parts - Rebuild 1.0, done properly and patiently, but unsuccessfully; and Rebuild 2.0, done via free agent signings and leading to both the Semi-Final run of 2010 and the Gomez disaster. I feel Bob was rather unlucky as GM. Markov got hurt, key patch up acquisitions like Lang suffered career-compromising injuries, Gomez collapsed at age 31, and well-regarded picks like Higgins and Komisarek turned into pumpkins. At the end of the day, though, Rebuild 1.0 failed due to organizational incompetence at player development and a failure to build a winning culture. That’s on him. He also restored the Habs as a relevant, respected NHL organization. That’s also on him.

 

Bergevin: I like your summary - an ace at the trade table, except for the execrable Drouin trade, and a complete disaster at drafting and development. Was more concerned with rewarding his personal mafia than with organizational excellence. He was gifted a strong hand with the four Ps (Price, PK, Patches, and Pleks) as well as Gally and Markov. Added the 5th P (Petry) but he basically frittered away the strong hand he inherited. His brilliant moves in the summer of 2020 created a team that was built for the playoffs and reached the Finals - an achievement that redeems him from the charge of total mediocrity. On the other hand, the Run of 21 was a one-and-done, the heroic last gasp of an aging core, and we only escaped complete and long-running cap hell because both Weber and Price suffered career-ending injuries. Very, very “lucky” in a perverse way.

 

Cucumber’s provisional verdict:

 

BEST

Gainey

 

CLOSE 2nd:

Bergevin

 

3rd:

Savard

 

4th:

Goat

 

5Th:

Houle, possibly the worst NHL GM of the past four decades other than Mad Mike Milbury.

 

TOO SOON TO TELL:

 

HUGO

 

None of them have excelled. Serge Savard was miles above any of these; none of them are fit to hold his jockstrap, as GM.

 

 

When I think back to me late teenage years, I used to think hat a downgrade Savard was over Pollack, and the huge mistake we made of giving Grundman the he job over Bowman. 
 

I didn’t really appreciate Savard until seeing and having to leave with the crap that followed. Gainey at least brought back some semblance of respectability, but he was done in mainly by that Gomez deal. If he had moved anyone other than McDonough-Subban-Markov-maxPac-Price, we still would have been okay.

 

At least Gainey left the team in a good base to go forward with. MB left us in cap hell, and we as clueless when it came to player development, so I’d already put Gort-Hughes ahead of him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MB left a good bunch of prospects in the system and did not trade draft picks so that Hugh-Gort could do the rebuild.

 

cap hell, I agree. But it was due to going all-in on Price's window. The Habs management were just toxic waste after the cup-run, MB and buddies had to go.

 

I truly hope Hugh-Gort delivers, I want them to succeed.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... cap hell, I agree. But it was due to going all-in on Price's window ...

 

"all-in" on Price's window ... not doing that was perhaps his greatest downfall, it at least would have made sense ... MB was the embodiment of hoping the habs might make the playoffs and that then maybe Price go Patrick Roy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... I truly hope Hugh-Gort delivers, I want them to succeed.

 

On that we 100% agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Dalhabs said:

Didnt Savard make the Chelios and Leclair-Desjardins trades? Those stink as well but he won a cup so thats cleaning it up I guess.

 

Those were awful trades but they won a cup with an unlikely run when guys like Paul Dipietro had an amazing playoff and of course Patrick Roy in net. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

MB left a good bunch of prospects in the system and did not trade draft picks so that Hugh-Gort could do the rebuild.

 

 

I agree, MB left HuGo with some good young pieces and extra picks so he is not starting from scratch.  i just wish MB had done a full rebuild but that was difficult to do when you have veterans like Price and Weber who wanted another shot at the cup. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

When I think back to me late teenage years, I used to think hat a downgrade Savard was over Pollack, and the huge mistake we made of giving Grundman the he job over Bowman. 
 

I didn’t really appreciate Savard until seeing and having to leave with the crap that followed. Gainey at least brought back some semblance of respectability, but he was done in mainly by that Gomez deal. If he had moved anyone other than McDonough-Subban-Markov-maxPac-Price, we still would have been okay.

 

At least Gainey left the team in a good base to go forward with. MB left us in cap hell, and we as clueless when it came to player development, so I’d already put Gort-Hughes ahead of him.

 

I remember Habs fans complaining - quite vociferously - about Serge Savard as GM. The problem was that these fans were still expecting the Habs to ice dynasties every year. I am pleased to say that I firmly defended Savard at the time. He built teams that were legitimate contenders from 1986-94, won two Cups, had three runs to the Finals. Now, admittedly, he made the horrible Chelios and LeClair trades, and had a lot of trouble finding picks in the first round. But his prospect pools were surprisingly deep in retrospect, and even after ‘95 he had some quality players in the pipeline, which Houle threw away. Ultimately, he delivered a period of team success that we would now regard as the fulfillment of all our hopes. He was no Pollock, but he was an excellent GM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Dalhabs said:

Didnt Savard make the Chelios and Leclair-Desjardins trades? Those stink as well but he won a cup so thats cleaning it up I guess.

Those two, and the Lemieux deal were the ones I hated. 
 

the Lemieux deal was because of Burns. Supposedly the Chelios was because of Corey. But the Leclair deal was just dumb, dumb, dumb!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Those two, and the Lemieux deal were the ones I hated. 
 

the Lemieux deal was because of Burns. Supposedly the Chelios was because of Corey. But the Leclair deal was just dumb, dumb, dumb!

Seems odd you only refer to bad deals made by Habs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DON said:

Seems odd you only refer to bad deals made by Habs.

Umm, I said that I liked Savard as a GM, and listed the deals I didn’t like in response to another post that referenced two of the trades. I also provided the context on Corey probably being the reason for one, and Burns for the other trade I didn’t like.
 

Hell, Savard probably made one of the most one sided deals in NHL history in trading a grunt like Kordic for Courtnall. He also brought in Damphousse, the good Turgeon, for an aging Muller - after making the mistake trading for his sister first for Clutch playoff Lemieux, as well as guys like Bellows that were key to the cup win. He also drafted and developed the core kids that were key for the cup wins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Umm, I said that I liked Savard as a GM, and listed the deals I didn’t like in response to another post that referenced two of the trades. I also provided the context on Corey probably being the reason for one, and Burns for the other trade I didn’t like.
 

Hell, Savard probably made one of the most one sided deals in NHL history in trading a grunt like Kordic for Courtnall. He also brought in Damphousse, the good Turgeon, for an aging Muller - after making the mistake trading for his sister first for Clutch playoff Lemieux, as well as guys like Bellows that were key to the cup win. He also drafted and developed the core kids that were key for the cup wins.

 

Lemieux was on the outs with Burns, if memory serves. I forget who we got back - it was a classic case of trading a guy at his lowest value, and he was a terrible guy to trade - but if your coach really despises a guy, it's tough to keep him around.

 

The LeClair trade was a product of desperation to make the playoffs, a casualty of the now-obsolete idea - which was a sacred cow at the time - that the Montreal Canadiens don't rebuild, they contend every year. They got back a legit all-star in Recchi and gave up promising young players to get him. Unfortunately, LeClair, who had been frustratingly inconsistent in Montreal, landed in the best possible situation playing with Lindros. I still think it's questionable whether he would have become the scoring machine he became without that beast of a centreman. Nevertheless, it was a historically bad trade. Perhaps the worst part about it was the inclusion of Desjardins. Unlike LeClair, who kept teasing but not "putting it all together," Desjardins was very clearly evolving into a stud top-pairing d-man. Savard wanted the Flyers to take back Brisebois instead, but Bobby Clobbers held out and got his way. Tragically for the Habs.

 

Good that you mention Damphousse, Bellows, Courtnall, and - especially - Muller. As bad as those other deals were, Savard turned that basket case Richer into a stud #1C in Muller. Savard constructed a bona-fide #1 line in two seasons entirely via trades, shedding only 2nd-liner Corson and grinder Glichrist, neurotic Richer, and a guy who wanted out in Courtnall. That was pretty nifty.

 

It seems amazing in retrospect that we managed to win a Cup even after trading away a #1 defenceman like Chelios in return for a rapidly-declining Savard. That shows what a deep team we had, and also what Patrick Roy could do when he was in the zone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a rank with a letter grade might be more accurate. None were good. A couple were adequate.

 

1. Gainey. C+ Drafted the only hall of famer the team has seen in 3 decades. 

2. MB. C. Good at trades. Bad at managing. 

3. Savard. C-

4. Goat D.

5 Houle F. Seems like a nice guy. Just incompetent. Trade the Mario or arguably Gretzky of goaltenders. Complete idiocy. I still have ptsd from that night. Remember exactly what I was doing. It's a traumatic core memory. Haha.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...