2023 NHL Playoffs

[Sir_Boagalott]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:02 PM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

IMHO you are downplaying the 2021 team in order to sustain the narrative that MB was garbage. Which he was - but not when it came to assembling the patchwork, one-time-only, last-gasp roster of 2021. MB could not build an organization worth a tinker's damn, but he made great patchup moves in the summer of 2020 to give Weber and Price one last shot to win.

 

To say that that team was not 'solid' is simply inaccurate. The D was iron-clad, the G was elite, and the FW unit had a nice mix of skill, size, youthful exuberance, and veteran savvy.

 

Was it a powerhouse roster? No, which is why it didn't win the Cup. Was it a strong, hard-to-beat, deep veteran team? Yes. 

 

 

 

The main thing that most people seem to not consider at all about the Habs run in 21 was that team had 4 dmen that were 6' 2"+ and 215 lbs+.  They also had 4 forwards that were the same size.  Its been 30 years since the Habs won and they've only had 1 bloody team during that entire span with that kind of size.  That is not a coincidence.  

 

People can bring up the two 3rd round exits with Halak and Krieder all they want.  However, they had 2 teams that were better and more talented than those 2 runs.  Unfortunately, they were way to small and light in 04 and 06.  During those 2 years the Habs only had 1 or maybe 2 forwards that had the required size to be able to push a 6'2" 215 lbs dman over their blue line to be able to clear the puck out of their zone.  Ultimately, there diminutive size is what killed their chances those 2 years.

 

The paramount difference is that the Cannes and Bolts went on to win the Cup whereas the Flyers and Rags did not.  Had the Habs got by the Flyers in Rags they are unlikely to have won the Cup.  When the Cannes and Bolts won the Cup their toughest series was against the Habs so there is a damn good chance that the Habs could won the Cup had they gotten by them.    

 

 

 

 

 

[Sir_Boagalott]

Hard to believe, the Cannes score with around 3 mins left in the 3rd to tie the game.

 

Is this game going into OT?  

 

Oh wow, what the Tkachuk just happened?  Nope, no OT.  Good goal by #19 with 4.9 secs to go.  

[Helmethead]

How can you not root for Florida. 
 

Totally deserving of a spot in the final. 
 

Matthew T.  is an absolute gamer. 

[Commandant]

In an elimination game with two forwards on his team injured, KK got 8:20 of ice time.  

 

Appears he was benched after the brutal giveaway on Lomberg's goal.

[hab29RETIRED]

13 minutes ago, Helmethead said:

How can you not root for Florida. 
 

Totally deserving of a spot in the final. 
 

Matthew T.  is an absolute gamer. 

Clutch! Exhibit A for the clutch argument!

[Commandant]

He scored over 100 points in the regular season.

 

He isnt clutch.  Hes just damn good.  

 

He was one of the best players in the league and a hart trophy candidate in the regular season.  Now hes one of the best players in the playoffs.   Nothing clutch about it... its called consistent greatness.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 minutes ago, Commandant said:

He scored over 100 points in the regular season.

 

He isnt clutch.  Hes just damn good.  

 

He was one of the best players in the league and a hart trophy candidate in the regular season.  Now hes one of the best players in the playoffs.   Nothing clutch about it... its called consistent greatness.

Three game winners in a four game series. Two in OT. Three OT winners so far in the playoffs. Sure he is a great player, but there were eight other 100 point guys in this years playoffs, they didn’t score as many critical goals as Tkachuk did.

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

45 minutes ago, Helmethead said:

How can you not root for Florida. 
 

 

 

Because I wanted the Habs to draft 29 instead of 31 or 32.   Now I want them to draft 31 instead of 32. I know it's a very marginal difference but when you don't really care much for either team then the marginal differences matter.  Go Vegas (assuming they beat Dallas). 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

17 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Three game winners in a four game series. Two in OT. Three OT winners so far in the playoffs. Sure he is a great player, but there were eight other 100 point guys in this years playoffs, they didn’t score as many critical goals as Tkachuk did.

 

 

I have never really liked Tkachuk but he has been a phenomenal player in these playoffs. He never complained during the regular season when things weren't going well, he basically carried the team on his back.  I don't know why Sutter never liked him as you would think he is the kind of player that Sutter would love. 

[Neech]

Barring a Stars miracle, I'll be cheering for Florida by default. Always hated the Panthers though. Barkov is a hell of a gamer and would be talked about in the same breath as Mackinnon and Matthews if he was Canadian or at least in a bigger market.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Three game winners in a four game series. Two in OT. Three OT winners so far in the playoffs. Sure he is a great player, but there were eight other 100 point guys in this years playoffs, they didn’t score as many critical goals as Tkachuk did.

 

 

Small sample size.

 

And if hes so clutch why didnt he do this for calgary before? Why is it just now?

 

What if Bobrovsky makes one fewer save in those games and he never gets the chance to score in OT? Then hes a player having a good but not great playoff.  As for the other 100 point guys, Hes been put in situations they havent....

 

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Brindamour deserves some heat for this loss. He made 0 game adjustments and just continued with the same style and gameplay. 
 

Tkachuk is seriously good - clutch or not, he made a huge difference in this series. 
 

Vegas is going to get destroyed by Florida. 

[GHT120]

8 hours ago, Commandant said:

In an elimination game with two forwards on his team injured, KK got 8:20 of ice time.  

 

Appears he was benched after the brutal giveaway on Lomberg's goal.

 

Hard to blame a player for maximizing his paycheque ... but it looks soooooooooo good on Dunden and Waddell.

[DON]

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Tkachuk is seriously good - clutch or not, he made a huge difference in this series. 

Flames fans must be very happy for him.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

2 minutes ago, DON said:

Flames fans must be very happy for him.

LOL yeah I can imagine 

A while ago I would have proposed a Mathews for Tkachuk + trade but Florida wouldn’t even entertain it now. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

It's amazing how everything is going Florida's way right now, playing with house money keeps you relaxed. Carolina looked so uptight. 

 

If Pittsburgh doesn't lose Game 81 at HOME to team tank (Chicago) then Florida most likely misses the playoffs. It's a crazy year. 

[Commandant]

29 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

It's amazing how everything is going Florida's way right now, playing with house money keeps you relaxed. Carolina looked so uptight. 

 

If Pittsburgh doesn't lose Game 81 at HOME to team tank (Chicago) then Florida most likely misses the playoffs. It's a crazy year. 

 

Florida barely snuck in the playoffs, and they are only in the cup final because of how well Bobrovsky and Tkachuk are playing.  We should give the GM zero credit for this. Why is he nominated for GM of the year. 

 

Anyone see how crazy that sounds?

 

Cause its basically the same argument that was used against the 2021 Habs on this very site.  (not by you HFiE)

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Florida is indeed a lot like the 2021 Habs…but the team they remind me most of is the 1993 Canadiens. True, the 1993 Habs were a league-leading power until a late-season slump pushed them down the standings (and allowed them to be caricatured as a bad team by Habs-haters ever after). By contrast Florida barely squeaked in. But Tkachuk is doing what Kirk Muller did in ‘93 and Goalie Bob is playing like ‘93’s Patrick Roy. Meanwhile the team as a whole is winning close games and overtimes like crazy, relentlessly finding ways to win in the clutch. Exactly like the ‘93 team.

 

I also think it’s relevant that FLA was a powerhouse team last season. (Just as the Habs in 1992 were a top-tier squad that also collapsed in the playoffs). This isn’t a bunch of scrubs who have never before had success suddenly getting hot. Much like the Habs in 1993, they’re a group that had tremendous regular season success, and blew up key parts of its core after a playoff disaster. While the ‘93 Habs had a strong regular season, Florida struggled to recover its mojo all season, plus Bobrovsky was not on form. But the bulk of the team is the same group that tore up the league in 2021-22, and that basic reservoir of strength was there waiting to be mobilized.

 

3 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

Hard to blame a player for maximizing his paycheque ... but it looks soooooooooo good on Dunden and Waddell.

 

I absolutely LOVE the fact that KK bombed out. 

 

In terms of schadenfreude, these playoffs have been terrific. Boston is humiliated. Toronto is steamrolled. KK is benched and made a fool of. I really couldn’t ask for more, LOL.

 

5 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Brindamour deserves some heat for this loss. He made 0 game adjustments and just continued with the same style and gameplay. 
 

Tkachuk is seriously good - clutch or not, he made a huge difference in this series. 
 

Vegas is going to get destroyed by Florida. 

 

Brindamour’s press conference was bizarre. “We didn’t lose, we didn’t get swept. well yes we did. But we didn’t. We could just as easily have swept them. We didn’t get swept. But we did.” WTF man.

 

I don’t underestimate VGK - no team that makes the Finals should be treated lightly, and they are a battled-hardened, experienced group. But it really is hard not to see the Panthers as a Team of Destiny. 

 

If ONLY the Habs had had a draw like Vegas in the 2021 Finals. Instead we got the worst possible matchup. Florida is more fortunate in that respect.

[Plutarch]

6 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Brindamour deserves some heat for this loss. He made 0 game adjustments and just continued with the same style and gameplay. 
 

Tkachuk is seriously good - clutch or not, he made a huge difference in this series. 
 

Vegas is going to get destroyed by Florida. 

The fact Carolina made it this far without Pacs and Svetch? I think losing a bunch of close games without the two guys you had envisioned being your goalscorers gives him some leniency.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 We should give the GM zero credit for this. Why is he nominated for GM of the year. 

 

 

 

I don't get it either. I guess the only possible reason he gets nominated is for pulling the trigger on the Tkachuk trade. That is the only thing he did this year. He did nothing at the trade deadline, it was almost like Zito was ready to write off the year.  Tkachuk saved them. 

[Commandant]

5 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I don't get it either. I guess the only possible reason he gets nominated is for pulling the trigger on the Tkachuk trade. That is the only thing he did this year. He did nothing at the trade deadline, it was almost like Zito was ready to write off the year.  Tkachuk saved them. 

 

The GM of the year award is voted after the second round (the only NHL award that is done this way).  He's nominated for their playoff run. 

 

GM of the year is rarely based on one year of work.  Moves made years ago that culminate in a roster this year are part of it 

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, Plutarch said:

The fact Carolina made it this far without Pacs and Svetch? I think losing a bunch of close games without the two guys you had envisioned being your goalscorers gives him some leniency.

Pacs played 5 games this season ... 5 good games (3 goals) but was never really an integral part of the team ... which isn't to say he was missed.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

40 minutes ago, Commandant said:

GM of the year is rarely based on one year of work.  Moves made years ago that culminate in a roster this year are part of it 

 

Then that would make more sense. I guess Zito deserves some credit for their regular season last year although he has traded away multiple 1st round picks.  The Tkachuk trade was a good one, I think it was Sam Pollock who used to say that whoever gets the best player wins the trade and Florida definitely won that trade. 

[Plutarch]

2 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Pacs played 5 games this season ... 5 good games (3 goals) but was never really an integral part of the team ... which isn't to say he was missed.

No but Carolinas problem was always a lack of goal scoring talent. Pacs was the move to get that talent. Injured.

 

Then Svetch... Their only actual weapon with pedegree beyond Aho... Goes down?

 

Brindamour somehow got 6 goals out of a guy who had 10 all year in Bratt, then more out of Noesen and Jarvis... Only thing he didn't manage was to turn water into wine with Puljiarvi... I'm just not sure he could make any changes to get more from that core.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

One thing I *never* do is feel sorry for other teams about their injuries. We cheer for a franchise that had Koivu, its best C for years, suffer a career-compromising knee injury, then have his eye gouged out in a series-changing high stick in the playoffs; Markov, its franchise defenceman, wiped out repeatedly, including the 2009 stretch drive; and its franchise player (Price) lose entire seasons to brutal injuries, not to mention being jilted out of a Cup Final due to an arguably intentional knee job in 2014. We also had our best goal scorer (Patches) gravely and deliberately injured by the team that beat us in OT is Game 7 (2011). So, Carolina has key players hurt? Oh boo hoo.

 

(Plutarch, I'm not saying that you're feeling sorry for Carolina. I'm just making the point that we've had more than our share of devastating injuries to key players in the post-Roy era).