hab29RETIRED Posted June 30, 2024 Share Posted June 30, 2024 43 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: What a trade this was Horrible trade for Philly. Irony was that they not only gave up the best player - Forsberg (IMO), they also gave up a bucket load of other assets and cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted June 30, 2024 Share Posted June 30, 2024 1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said: Horrible trade for Philly. Irony was that they not only gave up the best player - Forsberg (IMO), they also gave up a bucket load of other assets and cash. If I remember correctly one of those first round picks turned into Sundin whom they foolishly traded to the leafs for a washed up Wendel Clark. Set up Colorado who was also blessed by another idiot trade when they received Patrick Roy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 30, 2024 Share Posted June 30, 2024 Sundin was drafted by quebec before lindros. Quebec had 3 first overall picks in a row... sundin, owen nolan, lindros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted June 30, 2024 Share Posted June 30, 2024 2 minutes ago, Commandant said: Sundin was drafted by quebec before lindros. Quebec had 3 first overall picks in a row... sundin, owen nolan, lindros. What a sweet set up that was to draft three players of this calibre back to back to back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 30, 2024 Share Posted June 30, 2024 3 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: What a sweet set up that was to draft three players of this calibre back to back to back. Thanks to le Petit Tigre, they gave away Sundin for has beens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 Tampa and Guentzel closing in on a 7 year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 Tanev gets 6 years from the Leafs at $4.5M. He's 34 years old. This feels like one of those under the table agreements that says he's spending the last 2 or 3 years on LTIR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 3 minutes ago, dlbalr said: Tanev gets 6 years from the Leafs at $4.5M. He's 34 years old. This feels like one of those under the table agreements that says he's spending the last 2 or 3 years on LTIR. NHL needs to set up an INDEPENDENT medical assessment program for LTIR ... start with players in the last 2 years of their contracts and build it over time ... but they won't ... too many owners want to be able to cheat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plutarch Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 4 minutes ago, dlbalr said: Tanev gets 6 years from the Leafs at $4.5M. He's 34 years old. This feels like one of those under the table agreements that says he's spending the last 2 or 3 years on LTIR. Well I don't imagine it needs to be discussed. The guy is 100% going to break down. No need to even do the shady handshake under the table lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 1 minute ago, Plutarch said: Well I don't imagine it needs to be discussed. The guy is 100% going to break down. No need to even do the shady handshake under the table lol But will he break down and be UNABLE to play? THAT is the intent of LTIR, not unable to play well ... but we all know how t is really used for older players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 13 minutes ago, GHT120 said: NHL needs to set up an INDEPENDENT medical assessment program for LTIR ... start with players in the last 2 years of their contracts and build it over time ... but they won't ... too many owners want to be able to cheat. They actually have this. Montreal went through it with Weber as that one was heavily scrutinized by independent doctors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 17 minutes ago, GHT120 said: NHL needs to set up an INDEPENDENT medical assessment program for LTIR ... start with players in the last 2 years of their contracts and build it over time ... but they won't ... too many owners want to be able to cheat. This already exists. THe issue is that after playing in the NHL for a decade or more, most players have some type of injury and its hard for a doctor to say that injury isn't putting them at risk of further injury, or making their play diminished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 51 minutes ago, Commandant said: This already exists. THe issue is that after playing in the NHL for a decade or more, most players have some type of injury and its hard for a doctor to say that injury isn't putting them at risk of further injury, or making their play diminished. The criteria should not include "diminished play", that is the teams' problem ... not even certain that "risk of further injury" should be a criterion as that clearly isn't applied to most players who are injured and return to play ... risk of injury is more a "should I retire" consideration I-M-O ... LTIR should be for "incapable of playing" ... but that will never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 5 minutes ago, GHT120 said: The criteria should not include "diminished play", that is the teams' problem ... not even certain that "risk of further injury" should be a criterion as that clearly isn't applied to most players who are injured and return to play ... risk of injury is more a "should I retire" consideration I-M-O ... LTIR should be for "incapable of playing" ... but that will never happen. Incapable of playing is a near-impossible bar to reach in terms of making it black and white for a rule. As long as they have two legs and two arms, they're in theory capable of playing, even if the knees are bone on bone and one of the shoulders has been separated half a dozen times. Sure, they're capable of playing but no doctor in their right mind would sign off on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 15 minutes ago, GHT120 said: The criteria should not include "diminished play", that is the teams' problem ... not even certain that "risk of further injury" should be a criterion as that clearly isn't applied to most players who are injured and return to play ... risk of injury is more a "should I retire" consideration I-M-O ... LTIR should be for "incapable of playing" ... but that will never happen. Yeah, but legally those criteria arent going to work... you can't force a player to play if he has an increased risk of further injury due to another injury. Thats Liabilty out the wazoo if it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 7 minutes ago, dlbalr said: Incapable of playing is a near-impossible bar to reach in terms of making it black and white for a rule. As long as they have two legs and two arms, they're in theory capable of playing, even if the knees are bone on bone and one of the shoulders has been separated half a dozen times. Sure, they're capable of playing but no doctor in their right mind would sign off on it. But they seem to all the time if the player wants it and is a worthwhile contributor ... they let Price and Weber play in that Cup run when, at some point at least, they should have been shut down if long-term player health was actually a real concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 Just now, GHT120 said: But they seem to all the time if the player wants it and is a worthwhile contributor ... they let Price and Weber play in that Cup run when, at some point at least, they should have been shut down if long-term player health was actually a real concern. Its different when the player WANTS to take the risk. If he says he doesn't want to play through injury, the legality of forcing him to is a nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 Just now, Commandant said: Yeah, but legally those criteria arent going to work... you can't force a player to play if he has an increased risk of further injury due to another injury. Thats Liabilty out the wazoo if it happens. They have the option to retire ... which is what used to happen ... but I realize I am "barking at the moon". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 2 minutes ago, GHT120 said: They have the option to retire ... which is what used to happen ... but I realize I am "barking at the moon". Retiring means you don't get paid.... losing a guaranteed contract because you got hurt and can't play is another legal issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 1 minute ago, Commandant said: Retiring means you don't get paid.... losing a guaranteed contract because you got hurt and can't play is another legal issue. I'm OK with can't play ... don't like using LTIR for "can't play well" ... but I know I am spitting into the wind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 2 minutes ago, GHT120 said: I'm OK with can't play ... don't like using LTIR for "can't play well" ... but I know I am spitting into the wind Why should you even care about LTIR rules? Same for all 32 teams isnt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 3 minutes ago, DON said: Why should you even care about LTIR rules? Same for all 32 teams isnt it. Teams with more revenue can take advantage of loopholes that teams with less can't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 3 minutes ago, DON said: Why should you even care about LTIR rules? Same for all 32 teams isn't it. Conceptually I support LTIR ... teams should have the chance to replace a player lost for the season ... but it has become a cap circumvention tool to sign older players to contracts that are never intended or expected to be fulfilled solely to reduce the AAV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 9 minutes ago, GHT120 said: ... but it has become a cap circumvention tool to sign older players to contracts that are never intended or expected to be fulfilled solely to reduce the AAV. A tool for all 32 GMs to use, so fair enough isnt it? Some GMs will always be less scrupulous than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted July 1, 2024 Share Posted July 1, 2024 1 minute ago, DON said: A tool for all 32 GMs to use, so fair enough isnt it? Some GMs will always be less scrupulous than others. Not all GMs have the real-dollar budget to have dead-cap hit on the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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