hab29RETIRED Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 3 hours ago, DON said: Are you kidding? No one outside of HabFans would care less, or even see Dach as a top flight centre worth noting or missing. In rehab of course, working on his latest injury after a 2 game season. What was the earlier lazy article(s) you refer to? My god, alot of whining about Dach, who has put up a 14g season as his best so far, on par with KK and we all agree he was basically a bust. So jury is for sure still out on Dach even being a top six centre. I think back has a better chance of being a #2 centre, than the guys he listed. I'm bullish on Dave. I think if he is healthy, he may even be a #1 centre OFFENSIVELY. He isn't close to being the all round centre than Suzuki, but I do think if he is healthy, he can put up more points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 49 minutes ago, DON said: So you wanted them to write; "If Hab are going to take another step forward they're gonna to have to do better than Newhook, Evans, Dvorak" or Dach. And then all would of been right? No.... show that they understand the situation. "Dach is a potential second line centre, but has not been able to stay healthy and needs to take another step in his development." Something like that. Have some actual knowledge of the topic. He wasn't even named and he should be considered ahead of all three of those named. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 2 minutes ago, Commandant said: No.... show that they understand the situation. "Dach is a potential second line centre, but has not been able to stay healthy and needs to take another step in his development." Something like that. Have some actual knowledge of the topic. He wasn't even named and he should be considered ahead of all three of those named. Yep. It made zero sense excluding a guy the mgmt team made a statement move at their first draft to acquire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 hour ago, DON said: So you wanted them to write; "If Hab are going to take another step forward they're gonna to have to do better than Newhook, Evans, Dvorak" or Dach. And then all would of been right? And what about Owen Beck, Memorial Cup MVP!!! Anyway, no point in getting worked up about a lazy article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: And what about Owen Beck, Memorial Cup MVP!!! Beck and Kapanen certainly have at least the potential to be better than Dvorak and Evans. And I wouldn’t write off Newhook quite yet, either. Habs need another top-six forward, to be sure, but not necessarily a centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 9 hours ago, tomh009 said: Beck and Kapanen certainly have at least the potential to be better than Dvorak and Evans. And I wouldn’t write off Newhook quite yet, either. Habs need another top-six forward, to be sure, but not necessarily a centre. I'd like two top 6 forwards, but if D's Dach proves he is a 1a/1b, are issue is on the wings, not centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: I'd like two top 6 forwards, but if D's Dach proves he is a 1a/1b, are issue is on the wings, not centre. No doubt, if Dach stays healthy and performs the way many of us think he can then the center ice position is looking so much better, especially with Beck coming along. A healthy Dach and drafting a Demidov/Iginla/Lindstrom(who might turn into a winger) and all of a sudden we have the makings of a pretty good second line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: I'd like two top 6 forwards, but if D's Dach proves he is a 1a/1b, are issue is on the wings, not centre. 1 minute ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: No doubt, if Dach stays healthy and performs the way many of us think he can then the center ice position is looking so much better, especially with Beck coming along. A healthy Dach and drafting a Demidov/Iginla/Lindstrom(who might turn into a winger) and all of a sudden we have the makings of a pretty good second line. That’s a lot of ifs. The ideal play is for the Habs to draft or acquire an impact FW who can play either C or W, just in case Dach’s development stalls, or he can’t stay healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 33 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: That’s a lot of ifs. The ideal play is for the Habs to draft or acquire an impact FW who can play either C or W, just in case Dach’s development stalls, or he can’t stay healthy. Beck/Kapanen/Dach all may top out as #3 centres. And Dach as a 1A centre seems kooky, Suzuki is a middling #1 and dont think Dach is better than him. We all hope and wish Dach will become a point/game centre, but dont think he is or will become a Bobby Smith. A 60pt #2/3 centre seems more reasonable, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 5 hours ago, DON said: We all hope and wish Dach will become a point/game centre, but dont think he is or will become a Bobby Smith. A 60pt #2/3 centre seems more reasonable, no? This season there were only 47 centres in the NHL with 60+ points so I hardly think that level of production means a third-line centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 How is 77 points, with advanced stats that mean he was one of the best defensive centres in the league middling? Suzuki is absolutely a number 1 centre. The issue is getting depth behind that top line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 8 hours ago, DON said: And Dach as a 1A centre seems kooky, Suzuki is a middling #1 and dont think Dach is better than him. Give me another middling centre like Suzuki and I am a very happy guy. Two Suzuki's would be wonderful as I am confident Beck will be a very good #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Barkov has had 78 points and 80 points the last two years... is he middling? Is he not good enough to win a cup with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 47 minutes ago, Commandant said: How is 77 points, with advanced stats that mean he was one of the best defensive centres in the league middling? Suzuki is absolutely a number 1 centre. The issue is getting depth behind that top line. No doubt, Patrice Bergeron's best year was 79 points. Who would not consider him a good #1 center? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 12 hours ago, Commandant said: Barkov has had 78 points and 80 points the last two years... is he middling? Is he not good enough to win a cup with? Doesn't look like it😁 With all seriousness though, I'd be very happy if Suzuki is a consistent all round player like Barkov. I thought he be over 80 points last year - which he might have reached if we weren't a one line team. I also think Dach can put up more points than Suzuki - he looked dominant in the 1 1/2 (or 1 1/3??) game he played last year. I hope we get a high end winger to play with him, so he comes in more confident knowing he has a guy that can score on his line. That also would allow us to keep last year's first line in tact. If the price is reasonable, I'm thinking more and more that Laine whose on an expensive contract (but one that is only for two years), may be the perfect as one of the wingers with Dach - it would be a big body AND more importantly, a very skilled line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 17 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Two Suzuki's would be wonderful Down the road a couple years; Suzuki-Iginla-Beck-Kapanen perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 On 6/22/2024 at 7:03 AM, DON said: Beck/Kapanen/Dach all may top out as #3 centres. And Dach as a 1A centre seems kooky, Suzuki is a middling #1 and dont think Dach is better than him. We all hope and wish Dach will become a point/game centre, but dont think he is or will become a Bobby Smith. A 60pt #2/3 centre seems more reasonable, no? I’d be quite happy going with Suzuki as #1 and Dach as a 60-point #2. (Calling Suzuki “middling” is, as Commandant and others point above, dubious because of the emerging strength of his defensive game. He is a PPG future Selke candidate; not too shabby). The huge question mark is Dach. That’s why, again, the ideal FW acquisition would be a top-6 FW who can play C or W. If Dach is healthy, then the new guy plays wing. Of course, finding such an ideal type is easier said than done. I’ve said before that the rebuild as it currently stands is heavily dependent on Dach. And unfortunately it is far from clear that Dach will attain his undoubted potential, given his injury track record and his lost development time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: The huge question mark is Dach. That’s why, again, the ideal FW acquisition would be a top-6 FW who can play C or W. If Dach is healthy, then the new guy plays wing. Of course, finding such an ideal type is easier said than done. I’ve said before that the rebuild as it currently stands is heavily dependent on Dach. And unfortunately it is far from clear that Dach will attain his undoubted potential, given his injury track record and his lost development time. Yep, the injury last year robbed us of a lot of good information on what Dach's potential is and consequently made it more difficult to determine whether we need a center or winger. As you said, acquiring a player who can do both would be ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 20 hours ago, tomh009 said: This season there were only 47 centres in the NHL with 60+ points so I hardly think that level of production means a third-line centre. I doubt there were even 47. NHL.com is often slow to change positions when a centre is moved to the wing and this happens often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 I can tell you right now. Sam Reinhart, Jake Guentzel, Gustav Nyquist, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Seth Jarvis, Jordan Kyrou, Joe Pavelski, Wyatt Johnston, Are 8 players who were absolutely not playing centre on more than half of their shifts in 2023-24. There are probably more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 58 minutes ago, Commandant said: I can tell you right now. Sam Reinhart, Jake Guentzel, Gustav Nyquist, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Seth Jarvis, Jordan Kyrou, Joe Pavelski, Wyatt Johnston, Are 8 players who were absolutely not playing centre on more than half of their shifts in 2023-24. There are probably more. There must at least 10 or more NHL centres that would be chosen for a team today before Suzuki would be? So, you think he is (not will be in future) a top 10 NHL centre? Is that what you are arguing about and him not being more a middle of pack #1? Again, not sure anyone outside of HabFans would disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 I think he is replying to my comment about a 60-point C being possibly 3C. On nhl.com, only 47 centres had 60+ points, and he is noting that at least eight of those 47 are really wingers. So, a 60-point centre is really something close to a top-10 2C, not a 3C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Nice article on Beck. Canadiens’ Beck poised to prove offensive ceiling is higher than expected (msn.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I’d be quite happy going with Suzuki as #1 and Dach as a 60-point #2. (Calling Suzuki “middling” is, as Commandant and others point above, dubious because of the emerging strength of his defensive game. He is a PPG future Selke candidate; not too shabby). The huge question mark is Dach. That’s why, again, the ideal FW acquisition would be a top-6 FW who can play C or W. If Dach is healthy, then the new guy plays wing. Of course, finding such an ideal type is easier said than done. I’ve said before that the rebuild as it currently stands is heavily dependent on Dach. And unfortunately it is far from clear that Dach will attain his undoubted potential, given his injury track record and his lost development time. If Dach is healthy, and that is a BIG if - ai think he can become our 1A, where Suzuki would be the 1B that gets the tough assignments. I hated the Dach trade because of what we gave up - would have preferred to draft Nazar. Mainly because of Dach's injury history and the fact he hadn't shown enough in Chicago. Watching him when healthy, I see an elite 1st line centre, that can be a 80-100 point guy if he is playing with the right players AND is able to stay HEALTHY. The health factor is my biggest concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, Commandant said: I can tell you right now. Sam Reinhart, Jake Guentzel, Gustav Nyquist, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Seth Jarvis, Jordan Kyrou, Joe Pavelski, Wyatt Johnston, Are 8 players who were absolutely not playing centre on more than half of their shifts in 2023-24. There are probably more. I totally agree , but Johnson is one guy who will absolutely be a centre. Man I really wish Nill had taken the GM job in Montreal! Amazing drafting and development! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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