Commandant Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 I think its weird to say, defencemen don't reach their prime until 25, and then also say this defencemen who is playing and succeeding on the top pair at age 22 will never be more than he is now. Its fine to have that opinion, but its also an opinion that goes against the majority of the evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, Commandant said: He may not get bigger but he can add muscle. I also think he's close to reaching his prime and having a breakout.... defenders take longer to develop. Do you want to take a 23 year old, and replace him with an 18 year old defencemen and have to go through all those growing pains of a young D again, and by the time he's in his prime, Suzuki is in his 30s? I had been hoping to see him add some muscle but it hasn't happened yet. It's true that defensemen take longer to develop and hope you are right that he has a break out season soon. Maybe instead of replacing him with another defensemen you draft another forward at 6 if there is a guy there you really want, hoping your other existing young defensemen develop. We still have Matheson and Savard as a veteran presence. At the end of the day, I doubt Guhle gets traded. I do agree with hab29RETIRED that I would prefer Matheson gets traded to improve scoring up front, especially while his market value is likely at a peak. It would also be nice if some combination of (Winnipeg's 1st, Harris/Struble etc, multiple other picks) could help us move up in the draft as that would be my preferred scenario. I think this is the summer Hughes trades at least 1 young defensemen. That is my prediction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Is his defense 'fixable'? 2024 NHL Draft prospect: Cole Eiserman is a pure goal-scorer (habseyesontheprize.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 19 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I had been hoping to see him add some muscle but it hasn't happened yet. It's true that defensemen take longer to develop and hope you are right that he has a break out season soon. Maybe instead of replacing him with another defensemen you draft another forward at 6 if there is a guy there you really want, hoping your other existing young defensemen develop. We still have Matheson and Savard as a veteran presence. At the end of the day, I doubt Guhle gets traded. I do agree with hab29RETIRED that I would prefer Matheson gets traded to improve scoring up front, especially while his market value is likely at a peak. It would also be nice if some combination of (Winnipeg's 1st, Harris/Struble etc, multiple other picks) could help us move up in the draft as that would be my preferred scenario. I think this is the summer Hughes trades at least 1 young defensemen. That is my prediction. Who is the Left D, who has the potential to be a top pair two-way guy, with the type of defence you can hope to play against top lines. The only one with that kind of potential is Reinbacher and he's a Right D. Mailloux and Hutson are are more puck movers than the rugged two way defenceman like Guhle. Xhekaj doesn't have the potential to be a top pair defenceman who you put out against other team's number 1 line for 20+ minutes a game IMO. Harris, Struble, are also likely to top out as second pair and not a top pair guy even if they reach their ceiling. The moment you trade Guhle, you are looking for another Guhle. These are the types of defencemen who we see on teams that go deep in the playoffs. I can see trading a defenceman, but my prediction is that Guhle, Hutson, Reinbacher, and Mailloux won't be the guy traded..... Xhekaj could be, but that seems unlikely too. Barron, Struble, Harris, seem the likely defenders to be moved.... Savard too from an older perspective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 NHL Draft Rankings - FC Hockey (nhlentrydraft.com) Seems good site for draft kids info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, Commandant said: I think its weird to say, defencemen don't reach their prime until 25, and then also say this defencemen who is playing and succeeding on the top pair at age 22 will never be more than he is now. Its fine to have that opinion, but its also an opinion that goes against the majority of the evidence. What I have consistently said is that Guhle will never be more than he is now. A reliable Dman with good hockey IQ that gets thumped game in and game out that also gets injured. We won’t know for sure until he is 25. It’s HuGo’s job to figure that out now instead of waiting till he is 25. Is Guhle a stud in two years or is this it for him? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: What I have consistently said is that Guhle will never be more than he is now. A reliable Dman with good hockey IQ that gets thumped game in and game out that also gets injured. We won’t know for sure until he is 25. It’s HuGo’s job to figure that out now instead of waiting till he is 25. Is Guhle a stud in two years or is this it for him? And my point is that its possible, but unlikely that someone who is already succeeding at 22 has reached their peak and will never be more than they are at 22. If they haven't done anything and are still in the AHL and struggling at 22, that might be different... but someone who has shown growth every year, and is succeeding at 22 flatlining, pretty rare (though there are some examples). It understandable that Hughes and Co will bet on the continued improvement, that's where the odds are highly in their favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 3 minutes ago, Commandant said: And my point is that its possible, but unlikely that someone who is already succeeding at 22 has reached their peak and will never be more than they are at 22. If they haven't done anything and are still in the AHL and struggling at 22, that might be different... but someone who has shown growth every year, and is succeeding at 22 flatlining, pretty rare (though there are some examples). It understandable that Hughes and Co will bet on the continued improvement, that's where the odds are highly in their favour. Absolutely possible that Guhle continues to grow but I think his size and style of play prevents him from being much more. He gets thumped every game. Im not suggesting that we need to trade Guhle! I would trade him to solve our forward problem but certainly not because he is a bust. He is far from a bust. I think that you and I have very similar opinions on all things Habs except our thoughts on Guhle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Not a huge Grant fan but I haven’t heard much of Buium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 I have started to watch a little more of Buium, certainly a smooth, talented defensemen who can provide offense. Obviously we are strong at LD and our need is at forward but who knows what Hughes is thinking. A trade can change everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 4 hours ago, Commandant said: He may not get bigger but he can add muscle. I also think he's close to reaching his prime and having a breakout.... defenders take longer to develop. Do you want to take a 23 year old, and replace him with an 18 year old defencemen and have to go through all those growing pains of a young D again, and by the time he's in his prime, Suzuki is in his 30s? Yep. How long did it take for Matheson to emerge as a top pairing guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcLac88ytkU FWIW; These fellows have this ranking; 2 Demidov Lindstrom Parekh 5-Buium Levshonov Iginla Catton 9 Helanius ... They are much higher on Parekh than most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 6 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: Yep. How long did it take for Matheson to emerge as a top pairing guy! Well, I hope it doesn't take as long for Guhle. I really truly hope he emerges as a top pairing guy. I am just not as confident as some. Anyway, some differing opinions make for some good debate. I enjoyed the conversation. Looking forward to the draft as it should be an interesting time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 I think he's already a #2 guy on a top pair. Can he be a number 1 is the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 26 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Well, I hope it doesn't take as long for Guhle. I really truly hope he emerges as a top pairing guy. I am just not as confident as some. Anyway, some differing opinions make for some good debate. I enjoyed the conversation. Looking forward to the draft as it should be an interesting time. I really hope we try and move up to get an other 10-12 pick. I also hope we will pick whoever we think is the BPA - based on most likely projections for a player. We need to take the best player available regardless of position. If the projection for a forward is top 6 winger (rather than a clear top line winger), while the available D projects to be be a #1, id prefer to take that D. We can always move another D later like Anaheim did to get Gauthier. Right now we really don't know if Reinbacher and Hutson are top pairing guys or not. i wouldn't mind taking a flyer on Laine for two years to give Dach a top line winger to work with to provide immediate support to the 2nd line - as long as the acquisition cost is low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 4 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: It’s just my own personal opinion, a fan’s opinion that Guhle will never be more than he is now - I don’t think HuGo agree with me though. But a 2024 high draft pick could turn out to be second pair, or worse: there is much more risk in an 18yo who has never played an NHL game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 19 hours ago, Commandant said: I have a player who at age 22 has already played 2 seasons of top four minutes, and this past season was as a #2 defenceman, and did well in those minutes. No, I'm not trading him for a draft pick at 6. Thank you. Not to mention he played all of last season on the right side. I don't want to come off as a fan boy, but ghule is not a player I would want to trade unless the return was proven. Ghule will probably be a 30 point guy earning a reasonable percentage of cap hit and playing in the top 4 for a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, tomh009 said: But a 2024 high draft pick could turn out to be second pair, or worse: there is much more risk in an 18yo who has never played an NHL game. I would only trade Guhle to address our forward needs. I would risk Guhle for Demidov if that player and puck were available to us. Picking Lindstrom and Demidov would be really great and considering our LD depth it’s worth a gamble to me. 1 hour ago, BCHabnut said: Thank you. Not to mention he played all of last season on the right side. I don't want to come off as a fan boy, but ghule is not a player I would want to trade unless the return was proven. Ghule will probably be a 30 point guy earning a reasonable percentage of cap hit and playing in the top 4 for a decade. Edmonton would be in a much better spot if Nurse had a reasonable contract but he doesn’t. Not sure if Guhle would sign a reasonable contract or look for a payday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 2 hours ago, tomh009 said: But a 2024 high draft pick could turn out to be second pair, or worse: there is much more risk in an 18yo who has never played an NHL game. Of course, the #6 pick could be a dud (doubtful in this draft class) or a stud. There is always more risk the younger the player. You are depending a lot on your scouts for a deal like this. Usually no risk, no reward but I get the reasons people have for not wanting to trade Guhle. I just think some here are obviously more optimistic than I am on what he ends up being and If I turn out to be wrong then I am good with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 3 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Well, I hope it doesn't take as long for Guhle. I really truly hope he emerges as a top pairing guy. I am just not as confident as some. Anyway, some differing opinions make for some good debate. I enjoyed the conversation. Looking forward to the draft as it should be an interesting time. also considering that he plays in a team-concept that favors offense-first, play a F high on the D-zone, center-ice breakout passes and pinching at the blue-line; versus playing old-school shot-blocking and boxing out the other team. he did pretty good in those circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Demidov keeps coming us as the #1 guess among most mock-drafters. Either of these kids or Buium/Parekh or Iginla/Catton work fine for me. 5. Montreal Canadiens Kimelman -- Ivan Demidov: The 18-year-old dominated Russia's junior league, showcasing his dynamic offensive skill set and outstanding skating, and he'll likely get the chance next season to test those skills in the KHL. Demidov is under contract with SKA St. Petersburg through the 2024-25 season, so a little patience could be met with a great reward for the Canadiens. Morreale -- Cayden Lindstrom: He remains a top forward option in this draft despite missing 36 regular-season games because of injuries to his back and hand. He had 46 points (27 goals, 19 assists) in 32 games prior to getting injured and had two points (one goal, one assist) and 17 shots on goal in four WHL playoff games. https://www.nhl.com/news/topic/nhl-draft/mock-2024-nhl-draft-opinions-vary-after-1st-2-picks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 I just hope two defenders get chosen in the top-4 and we get Demidov or Lindstrom, though I will talk myself into any other forward we take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 1 hour ago, Neech said: I just hope two defenders get chosen in the top-4 and we get Demidov or Lindstrom, though I will talk myself into any other forward we take. agree NHL Mock Draft 2024: After Macklin Celebrini, making selections for all 225 picks - The Athletic (nytimes.com) Pronman has Demidov for Habs. 5. Montreal Canadiens: Ivan Demidov, RW, Ska St. Petersburg Jr. (RUSSIA-JR.) Like Anaheim at No. 3, Montreal would be under a lot of tension here in this scenario. They want a forward. Demidov is a great forward. He is also an average-sized wing playing in Russia. There are other great alternatives they could turn to, be it Sennecke or Tij Iginla up front or Zeev Buium on defense. I think they pinch their nose and take the dynamic winger but this will be a tough debate for them and it wouldn’t surprise me if they went in a different direction. If Lindstrom got to them at No. 5 it would make their lives a bit easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 10 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Edmonton would be in a much better spot if Nurse had a reasonable contract but he doesn’t. Not sure if Guhle would sign a reasonable contract or look for a payday. I don't see Ghule exploding offensively. The Nurse contract is over the top overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 2024 Final Draft Rankings – Round 2 – HabsWorld.net As always, bunch of interesting d-prospects likely available in the 2nd. Mews(R), Freij(R), Brunicke(R), Badinka(R) Hutson(L)?, Wallenius(L), Muggli(L), Pulkkinen(L) 2024 NHL Draft prospect: Miguel Marques is a toolsy winger (habseyesontheprize.com) The top North American 2024 NHL Draft prospects via analytics (nhlentrydraft.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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