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Need To Move Soft Players


jackp

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You simply can't win consistently when you have as many soft players who don't want to compete as the Habs do. Tonight was a good test against a hard hitting team and it was somewhat embarassing.

The hall of shame:

Sundstrom, Bulis, Zednick - These guys didn't want to compete at all. They were passing off the puck the moment a Calgary player got close to them and it didn't matter if there wasn't anyone to pass to. They simply didn't want the puck. They made half-hearted efforts to chase the puck in the Calgary zone. The only skating and puck-handling they did was when there was lots of open ice. Good thing Bonk was on the Bulis line; he single-handedly made them look half decent. Bonk surprised me; he competed.

Hall of shame (part 2 - not quite so bad):

Ribeiro (who competed a little more in the 3rd period), Streit, and Komisarek. In Komi's case, he just wasn't as big a presence as he should have been after Souray got turfed. He plays soft for a guy this big. I mean he's not scared or anything but he doesn't punish people and when your other skills are not great, this is something you have to do.

I was embarassed tonight by what I saw. Even when Kovalev scored that 2nd goal, no way did I think we would tie. Not enough players willing to pay the price. I hope Gainey was taking notes because there are definitely guys he has to move if we're ever to become serious Cup challengers again.

Hope we compete better against Vancouver on Saturday...

- Jack

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I agree: the balance is wrong. As great as it is to have Yoda and Obi-Wan behind the bench, we may still need to tweak the roster.

Komisarek is not soft - I think his confidence is just very fragile right now, after losing his mother and being benched, etc.. But at some point, he does need to step up and convince himself that (a) he really, honestly belongs in the NHL and, b, that he is potentially much more than Craig Rivet II - he has it in him to be an impact player, a hard-hitting shutdown guy, an anchor back there.

I'm not saying he's in Dion Phaneuf's class, but he could learn something from Phaneuf's attitude. From day one, he believed he belonged, and the result is he's been dominant. Hopefully Gainey and Carbo can instill that belief in Komi (it's just too bad he's not better insulated on a team that has an average-at-best defence corps).

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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Bulis are you kidding me he has to be one of the hardest working Canadiens. As for Sunny and Zed they have both let me down latley Sunny just is not winning his battles anymore and Zed can not score, he had at least two chances on rebounds tonight that were easy tap ins all he had to do was work to get into position to pop them in. Streit looked good tonight and K REX let Gainey down tonight.

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Bulis are you kidding me he has to be one of the hardest working Canadiens. As for Sunny and Zed they have both let me down latley Sunny just is not winning his battles anymore and Zed can not score, he had at least two chances on rebounds tonight that were easy tap ins all he had to do was work to get into position to pop them in. Streit looked good tonight and K REX let Gainey down tonight.

Agreed. Bulis can be effective just because of his speed, he's making d-men think twice before supporting the offense too much... and he's one of the rare Habs that usually give a solid effort from shift to shift and from game to game. He's reliable and you know what you'll get; unlike some other guys like Ribs, Ryder or Zednik who can go invisible for lenghty periods of time.

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I've got to stand up for Bulis on this one, eventhough I've been a critic of his in the past.

Look at an example from the beginning of the game. When the Habs took their first penalty, Bulis, instead of simply icing the puck down the length of the ice, skated hard, brought the puck into the Calgary zone, and made a move to beat the defender. He was brought down, drawing a penalty. Bulis provided 100% effort, so its hard to say he wasn't competing.

Komisarek, however, is a disappointment. Not only have his skills not progressed, they almost appear to have regressed (he looked better in the playoffs against the Bruins). Add to that what appears to be a lack of effort, and I'm starting to wonder about this guy. Case in point: watch his play against Iginla on the 3rd goal. He lackadaisically shoved him a couple times, then watched him zoom past him on his way to the net. The whole time he essentially had his head down, and when the puck went into the net, he was covering no one. This isn't an isolated incident. Perhaps it isn't a lack of effort but rather a lack of confidence. Either way, he is not helping this team.

-Dave

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Well, I guess we'll just have to disagree on Bulis. I did say that he was skating hard *when there was lots of open ice* (like on that penalty kill), but I can't tell you how many times I saw him aimlessly throw the puck away when a Calgary defender was bearing down on him.

On a more positive note... how about Souray? Cleaned McCarty's clock and I thought it was going to inspire the team. Too bad those homer refs gave him the extra five and game. Put us down a defenceman, took away our best banger, and seriously impacted on our chances to win. RDS announcers said it was because of the wrist support he was wearing. Well, that may be so, but I've seen Souray fight before and that was the first time any ref interpreted the rule that way. Seemed like a homer decision to me. I just don't think it would have been called that way had the game been in Montreal. Kinda like that Pittsburgh interception that wasn't in that NFL playoff game last Sunday. Good for Souray though. He's starting to step up...

- Jack

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Playing on a line with Sunny is like sitting under the learning tree of defensive responsibility. Unfortunately, it's not what the Habs need. I wouldn't doubt if he was traded this season.

I'm not a Sunny fan. Yeah he does those little thing coaches love, but otherwise he plays too much of a passive game and brings little in the way of toughess or offense.

I expect more of a 3rd liner beside a "no-downside, no-upside" game. Might as well put someone who'll do some mistakes but at least will also brings some benefits.

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It wasn't a homer decision from the refere last night,....the extra 5 minutes where given du to

the cut inlflicted by its wrist protecter........no cut had been inflicted in his previous fights.

What troubled me most last night was the two minors taken first by Streit than by Sourey immediatly

following their one goal lead at the start of the game,..how unfocus,..how undisciplined. Except for their last two games, the CH have been undisciplined from the very beginning of the season,.... to see that it is hapenning again,....without Marcov in the line-up,... facing Calgary in their home turf,....struggling to get back on track before it get to late.....makes me feel strongly that this year story is already over.

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Ok this is a little off topic but...holy mood swings.

After the last two games everyones outlook on the team was skyhigh. Now, after one CLOSE loss, we're not even gonna make the playoffs?

*Looks at the final score* 3-2

We lost by one goal, we were missing our top 2 defencemen. Why as habs fans do we always look at the negatives, it's almost at the point where I'm ashamed at a lot of the attitudes here. Calgary isn't no division bottom feeding team, they're the defending Western Conference champions, yes we could play better, a lot better in certain aspects, but it isn't time to abandon ship yet.

Have some faith people.

I'm not trying to tell you not to post what you want, but you think we were LEAF fans after claiming it's the end of the world after a 1 goal loss.

Bar

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As for moving soft players.....yaaa...but what about not signing them in the first place.

Many people had a bad feeling when Bob had UFA to be Sundstrom signed a brand new contract with our team.......after all they where other options at the very same time and Ian Laperriere had already mentionned his readyness to come and play here....how did he pass on a guy like that, a third liner of that intensity when the CH was seen as a smallish team playing a somewhat smallish brand of hockey,....come on !!! This guy is even more versatile than sundstrom as he also play centre....and what about scoring....he had something like 13 in quite a while ago,....and he is hardly used on the power play...if at all.

Lets face it, Avalanche has done well in the off season and we havent done as well,..and it shows.

Edited by spathe
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I am quite sure that Gainey is watching closely. Bob will do everything it takes to make the playoffs. He knows how crazy Montreal is.

What I keep hearing is that we should easily accept this loss. We were short 2 top Dmen and we were playing a very good team. I say that is a bunch of crap. We had 18 shots - unacceptable

The teams we are going to be playing are as good or better.

I still do want a trade and I mean a big one.

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Komisarek, however, is a disappointment. Not only have his skills not progressed, they almost appear to have regressed (he looked better in the playoffs against the Bruins). Add to that what appears to be a lack of effort, and I'm starting to wonder about this guy. Case in point: watch his play against Iginla on the 3rd goal. He lackadaisically shoved him a couple times, then watched him zoom past him on his way to the net. The whole time he essentially had his head down, and when the puck went into the net, he was covering no one. This isn't an isolated incident. Perhaps it isn't a lack of effort but rather a lack of confidence. Either way, he is not helping this team.

-Dave

I agree that Komi needs to step it up, but to come to his defense a little bit on that particular goal, the fourth line had been out on the ice for a while, then they get caught icing the puck. Naturally, Sutter sends out his top line to take advantage of our 4th line having to stay out there. Calgary was then able to cycle the puck in our zone for what seemed to be a good 2 mins and eventually scored on the scramble. You can blame him all you want, but that was an extremely long shift for our fourth line who definitely can't match up to Iggy's line.

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I do not have a problem with Komisarek in terms of his physical play. It is his puck handling that is brutal, he handles the pucl like a hand grenade all too often just banging it up the boards. As for Streit he is absolutely useless, poor positional play, ineffective on the power play and he is consistently outmuscled. Begin has disappeared, Kovalev seems in a snit and Bonk is awflul but seems to be rewarded with more ice time. By the bye, when is Plekanec back?

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I do not have a problem with Komisarek in terms of his physical play. It is his puck handling that is brutal, he handles the pucl like a hand grenade all too often just banging it up the boards. As for Streit he is absolutely useless, poor positional play, ineffective on the power play and he is consistently outmuscled.

Actually, the smartest move Gainey did was probably to fire Green along with Julien. If you look at the way the Habs brought their d-men into the NHL in recent years, its not been anything overwhelming. The way Markov's been under-developing (which is great when you consider then how much better he could be) and how Komisarek, Hainsey, Streit, Souray, Rivet, Brisebois, Dykhuis, Traverse, etc. all really struggled either frequently or for long periods of time in recent years. Of memory, I think only Markov, Bouillon and Robidas were mostly reliable.

On the other hand, what really hurt the Habs that few people bring up was to lose Beauchemin via waivers to Columbus. In the schedule of developing players for the NHL, Beauchemin was destined to be the next defenseman to establish himself as a regular in the NHL. Losing him made a big hole at a position the Habs are the weakest right now.

So instead of having -- in order of usefulness and NHL-readiness -- Beauchemin - Komisarek - Streit, the Habs now have Komisarek - Streit - Coté. Its a major difference when the time comes to plug the holes from within.

So instead of having to rely on Komisarek & Streit as a 6th d-man who can play little minutes (which makes you overplay others D who then suffer from it); the Habs would have a more seasoned, reliable 6th d-man in Beauchemin, with a possibility to use Komi or Streit sparingly and bring them along smooth and nice.

Adding a reliable but expendable defenseman should be Gainey's #1 objective once he has got over the whole coaching acclimation. Komisarek needs to be sent back to the AHL for about a month. Give him top minutes in an environment where he can be dominant again. That'd give him his confidence back, which is all he needs. Once he's back on top of his game, bring him back to the NHL, ready to kick some ass in time for the playoffs.

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All u guys keep whinin and complaining about whos playing bad....never thinking positive....and that is the problem the habs are having.....or were having b4 gainey stepped in......we cant win them all ....and the ones we lose we have to keep taking positives out of them.....for example bonk had a solid game leading the team with 3 shots on goal...and had an even plus minus rating in a losing cause which is good....also....streit seems to be finding the groove that made him capitano of the swiss team....just wait till he takes charge of that team in the olympics...he will be confident and composed upon his return and that may be filler in the defensive hole that we have been waiting for :hlogo:

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I do not have a problem with Komisarek in terms of his physical play. It is his puck handling that is brutal, he handles the pucl like a hand grenade all too often just banging it up the boards. As for Streit he is absolutely useless, poor positional play, ineffective on the power play and he is consistently outmuscled. Begin has disappeared, Kovalev seems in a snit and Bonk is awflul but seems to be rewarded with more ice time. By the bye, when is Plekanec back?

Yo Nilan why dont you get the hell back to RDS and the rest of the nonsense fillers wasted 15 seconds reading your pessimistic babble! and another 15 writing back to ya!

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Well taking the positives out of the game last night would be tough. Bonk, Bulis and Higgins played hard, although no one really produced anything Dangerous. I totally agree with Kozed on his assessment of the D, I've said it before and i'll say it again, this team will go no where with the current D. A number of them should be replaced. You can make your own list. Without Markov, as a group they are slow and soft. Is anyone else concerned the Habs had a total of 33 shots over the last 2 games. 5 on 5 this team is brutal, can't put 2 passes together, can't forcheck, taking stupid penalties and can't play hard for 60 minutes. I think the habs will be sellers not buyers by the deadline. Gainey and Carbo will get rid of the dead wood, opening space for the younger players.

Trade ideas: Zednick and Ribiero to Chicago for Babchuck and Bell.

Trade Rivet and either Bouillon or streit.

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umpalumpa55, you are totatlly right. The guys are low on confidence no matter how you look at it. Its only been three games under Gainey and it takes time to adapt and shake off the horrible stuff the julien regime did to the team. We are starting to see some positives already, which is great b/c its only the start and there is so much more on the way. Gainey has taught me at least that patience is a great virtue and will totally help this team and take some pressure off these guys. Thats extremely important b/c when these guys relax their grip on their stick, and actually want to put in the effort without being too conservative then the puck will bounce their way!! You need to allow players to be creative. That combo will see these habs excel.

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we should have a table where we take note and sort of vote for who was Soft or not

YEsterday by the way Bouillon was the toughest of the five left!!! 3 or more hits and an equal number of blocked shots!

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YEsterday by the way Bouillon was the toughest of the five left!!! 3 or more hits and an equal number of blocked shots!

I agree totally. I couldn't believe it when that other poster said we should get rid of Boullion!!! When he's on the ice, the other team has to keep their heads up. For a little guy, he packs some "smack!" Also, he's often good at carrying the puck out of our zone...

- Jack

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Bouillon was waived by 2 other teams. he looks good in the habs uniform because the rest are so poor. I like his work ethic, and he plays hard, but unless he is playing against the boards, he gets beat alot in front of the net. The comment was is getting rid of him or streit, you can't have those 2 in your top 6, one or the other. That's all i was stating.

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Bouillon was waived by 2 other teams. he looks good in the habs uniform because the rest are so poor. I like his work ethic, and he plays hard, but unless he is playing against the boards, he gets beat alot in front of the net. The comment was is getting rid of him or streit, you can't have those 2 in your top 6, one or the other. That's all i was stating.

Understood... But i will counter your argument stating first Bouillon is a 6 or 7th Dman yes But Streit is still undefined ... a potential Quaterback Dman a top 4 dman? so you cant put those two in the same bag therefor Yes by definition they might be both now 6th or 7th Damn but we dont know if in 20 games from now they might be completely at different levels!!

Its like saying Because of the way Komi is playing arguably like a 7th Dman that we cant have him either ... He is potentially a top 2dMan!

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I think people are underrating Bouillon, he has great wheels and plays very physical at this point, i think he's been more than solid for tihs team.

Streit has surprised me recently, he looked awful early in the year, so much i would've bought his plane ticket home, he's really gained confidence and has even started to try to play more phsyical.

Bonk has really picked up his play and you can tell early on that he was injured

Players that Need to go (no particular order)

1. Ribeiro

2. Zednik

3. Theo

4. Sundstrom

There are many many others that I wouldn't mind seeing traded. We definitely need to improve our offence. Call it system or palyers, something needs to be done, we don't get enough shots or chances in 5 on 5.

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I don't think we need to move that many players (4-5). Moving ONE 'soft' player, especially a first or second liner such as Zednik, could be sufficient to tip the balance. Besides, it's usually a mistake to think in terms of 'getting rid' of players - look at Brisebois; is our defence really so much better WITHOUT him? Better to think in terms of overall team balance and chemistry, and clearly we need to add a warrior, maybe two.

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