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2023/2024 season playoff discussion


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The Oiler-Stars series has got be one of the most disciplined series I have seen. Very few penalties, it seems like no one  wants to take a bad penalty. Both teams have had their turn being dominant but overall it has been pretty even. I won't even try and predict how it's going to finish. Draisaitl/McDavid are very focused and determined but the Stars are deep, talented and disciplined.  

 

On the other side I think the Rangers are fortunate to be even, it seems like Florida has been the better team but Shesterkin has kept the Rangers in. The Rangers haven't impressed me at all, I think Florida wins that one. 

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Scoring helps winning, Grant Fuhr would concur.:nuts:

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What were the opposing goalie's save percentages?

 

There is no doubt that goaltending has improved dramatically since the 80s.... popularization and perfection of butterfly techniques, new materials in equipment that allows bigger equipment to be used, etc.... 

 

Moog for the 1st cup. 

Fuhr for cups 2, 3, 4, 

Ranford for the 5th cup 

 

were all playing at a high level relative to their peers. 

 

Skinner is the worst starting goalie (by far) remaining in the playoffs, and that is true not just of the last 4 teams, but of the last 8 as well. 

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If there is one goalie I saw a lot of, it was Grant Fuhr. I split a season ticket for the Oilers back in the day. The Oilers as we all know played a loose, run and gun style and left Fuhr out to dry on many many occasions. You can throw pretty much throw his save percentages out the window especially in the regular season. The Oilers tightened up a bit for the playoffs (just a bit) and his save percentages were better in the playoffs. 

 

His best save percentages during the season were with St. Louis from 95-99.  

 

Fuhr made the big save when the Oilers needed it. He was a fun goalie to watch, so athletic. He was a great goalie, I don't care what the stats say (other than all the cups he won). 

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49 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Skinner is the worst starting goalie (by far) remaining in the playoffs, and that is true not just of the last 4 teams, but of the last 8 as well. 

And yet they are 6 wins from a cup, so you proved the point i was making. 

If can score alot, makes any goalie's job easier.

(ask Price what opposite is like)

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Every time the Oilers have their backs to the wall in these playoffs, they win.

 

Every. Single. Time.

How's that possible. You aren't suppose to be able to win when you are spending so much money on superstars like McDavid and Draisaitl???🙄

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2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

The Oiler-Stars series has got be one of the most disciplined series I have seen. Very few penalties, it seems like no one  wants to take a bad penalty. Both teams have had their turn being dominant but overall it has been pretty even. I won't even try and predict how it's going to finish. Draisaitl/McDavid are very focused and determined but the Stars are deep, talented and disciplined.  

 

On the other side I think the Rangers are fortunate to be even, it seems like Florida has been the better team but Shesterkin has kept the Rangers in. The Rangers haven't impressed me at all, I think Florida wins that one. 

I would say that referees swallowing their whistles and/or being incompetent is another reason for the low penalties.

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19 minutes ago, DON said:

And yet they are 6 wins from a cup, so you proved the point i was making. 

If can score alot, makes any goalie's job easier.

(ask Price what opposite is like)

 

They haven't won anything yet, and goaltending has been their downfall on multiple occassions. 

 

Yes, scoring helps. 

 

But I'm sure they'd love to have a do-over on the Jack Campbell contract and use that money for a real #1 instead. Might be going for the 2nd or 3rd cup if that was the case. 

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36 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I would say that referees swallowing their whistles and/or being incompetent is another reason for the low penalties.

 

I disagree 100%. I think the refs have done an excellent job in the Edmonton-Dallas series. The players are sticking to hockey and the refs are letting them play and not making cheap calls. 

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I wonder if refs are having a quiet crisis of confidence. Refs are always being criticized, but these playoffs, the criticism has been really relentless - including from the media, which in the old days treated the refs as sacrosanct. 

 

If you’re feeling that way, the easiest thing to do is swallow the whistles.

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11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I wonder if refs are having a quiet crisis of confidence. Refs are always being criticized, but these playoffs, the criticism has been really relentless - including from the media, which in the old days treated the refs as sacrosanct. 

 

If you’re feeling that way, the easiest thing to do is swallow the whistles.

 

I think you are definitely over analyzing. They are simply doing a good. It seems like no one ever gives referees credit for doing a good job. It's easy to be an expert on referring when you are watching a replay on tv from 5 different angles in slo-motion where the referees have to make a split second decision at ice level in a sport that has become faster all the time. 

 

Referees have been criticized as long as I have been watching hockey (a long time) and I am sure it will continue. I know giving referees credit will never be popular as it's always easier to criticize the work they do. 

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I have to disagree. there have been some bad calls, the embellishment call in game 3 on marchment sucked, missing the hit from behind on Bouchard in the last two minutes was bad, there have been others too. 

 

My opinion is the refs are trying their best, but the game just keeps getting faster and faster and might be too hard to call at this level. 

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9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I have to disagree. there have been some bad calls, the embellishment call in game 3 on marchment sucked, missing the hit from behind on Bouchard in the last two minutes was bad, there have been others too. 

 

My opinion is the refs are trying their best, but the game just keeps getting faster and faster and might be too hard to call at this level. 

 

You are cherry picking 1 or 2 calls over a series. I don't think Marchment got the penalty because he fell, he got it because he laid on the ice like he was shot. 

 

I guess we will have to disagree as I think the refereeing has been very good in this series. 

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I'm picking two calls in the last two games.  There are others I can point to as well, but I'm not even blaming the refs, I think they are going to miss calls with the game at this speed. 

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Of course the refs will miss some calls. It's not only because the game is fast but they are also seeing it from ice level so the view is not as good as ours.  Some fans expect perfection from referees and that will never happen. Even fans who watch the same replay over and over again will disagree on whether something is a penalty or not. 

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I understand that refs will miss some calls. My thing is, they should stop trying to "manage the game."  Just call the damned penalty. This would make their jobs much simpler, because there would be one standard throughout a game, applied from start to finish.

 

By contrast, once you accept this idea that a hooking call in the first period, by some mystical process of transubstantiation, ceases to be hooking in the third period, you pile layers of judgement calls upon layers of judgement calls. Instead of asking yourself "is this hooking?" you now have to ask yourself that, AND "is this hooking at this time of the game, relative to an earlier time of the game, and relative to the score?"

 

The result is frustration for all concerned. Nobody knows what a bloody penalty actually IS at any given moment on the ice.

 

If refs were to abandon this futile effort to "manage the game," there would initially be howls of outrage, as fans and players denounce calls made when the score is close, or when it's the last five minutes, etc., etc. But gradually people would come to adjust to the idea that hooking is hooking, holding is holding, period, and we would enter a world in which referee-induced chaos is greatly reduced. The only variable would be how calls are made from game to game and from ref to ref, rather than from moment to moment, and situation to situation, within a game.

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16 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I understand that refs will miss some calls. My thing is, they should stop trying to "manage the game."  Just call the damned penalty. This would make their jobs much simpler, because there would be one standard throughout a game, applied from start to finish.

 

By contrast, once you accept this idea that a hooking call in the first period, by some mystical process of transubstantiation, ceases to be hooking in the third period, you pile layers of judgement calls upon layers of judgement calls. Instead of asking yourself "is this hooking?" you now have to ask yourself that, AND "is this hooking at this time of the game, relative to an earlier time of the game, and relative to the score?"

 

The result is frustration for all concerned. Nobody knows what a bloody penalty actually IS at any given moment on the ice.

 

If refs were to abandon this futile effort to "manage the game," there would initially be howls of outrage, as fans and players denounce calls made when the score is close, or when it's the last five minutes, etc., etc. But gradually people would come to adjust to the idea that hooking is hooking, holding is holding, period, and we would enter a world in which referee-induced chaos is greatly reduced. The only variable would be how calls are made from game to game and from ref to ref, rather than from moment to moment, and situation to situation, within a game.

 

I don't necessarily disagree. If you look at this series I think they have been pretty consistent. I'll give you an example. In Game 3 the Oilers are trailing late in the game by 1 goal and Darnell Nurse gets a tripping penalty in the offensive zone with around 4 minutes to go. That's a tough call to make against a team trying to come back late in the game but it was the right call. They weren't trying to manage the game. 

 

I can understand in overtime where a referee might be hesitant to make a call unless they think it's clear and obvious. I don't see as much "managing" of the game. 

 

However sometimes if things are getting out of control I have no problem with referees cracking down, giving misconducts etc in order to avoid chaos from happening. Sometimes a little management is important. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

 

However sometimes if things are getting out of control I have no problem with referees cracking down, giving misconducts etc in order to avoid chaos from happening. Sometimes a little management is important. 

 

 

Funny, this is the only sport that has that issue, on a regular basis.

MLB/NFL/NBA/Soccer, as soon as any player gets too 'frisky'... it is immediate ejection, suspensions and fines. Seems to work well as a deterrent. Seems common sense.

 

And bush-league 'whistle in pocket' late in in tight game, is pretty much just a NHL thing.

e.g. An offside is called just as quick on a goalline play during superbowl, as in a pre-season nothing game.

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5 hours ago, DON said:

And bush-league 'whistle in pocket' late in in tight game, is pretty much just a NHL thing.

e.g. An offside is called just as quick on a goalline play during superbowl, as in a pre-season nothing game.

 

I think this is the key.  Commandant pointed out the game is getting faster, but it's blatant that the standard for penalties change drastically from preseason to the finals.  I could understand missing calls here and there due to how fast it the game is but that's clearly not the case.  There isn't even a small attempt at consistency. 

 

 

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Yes, will be blown or missed calls in all sports, but with so much video, the most egregious errors like Umpire Denkinger world-series mis-call, are all overturned these days.

image.jpeg

 

But, it is like you say, the blinders the NHL refs put on late in a close game or playoffs is irritating.

Like classy Marchand getting several free punches in on a Sedin in the 2011 finals, all good by the refs and what a soft-Swede eh!:bonk: 

 

Anyways, was great to see Panthers beat Rangers at home.

  

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