Butterface Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 20 hours ago, Commandant said: If I were managing, I’d always be selling. Unless it was for a cup run. But if I’m expecting to be out first or second round, I’d rather get assets. I’d be curious to see how mgmt handles that situation. This isn’t our year. If I’m not adding at trade deadline to help the team get past the second round, then I’m certainly selling. I’m not getting caught holding the bag a la Souray. You can always try for their services again July 1. I’m going to get what I can for expiring contracts and make the team better down the line. Whether drafting with those assets or using them in the trade market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 I don't know why it is coming up as quoting me cause that's not what I said. Seems to be some sort of edit where it was others. I digress though. Anyways, this idea that you trade a UFA away and get him back on July 1st is just something that is talked about more on message boards than what actually happens in real life. I stand by my previous points. 1) We will need to see our spot in the standings in February before deciding keeps and trades. 2) There is value, especially to a team as young as this and with a loaded prospect system (and the 50 contract limit means you can only have so many 3rd, 4th, 5th round picks), to those players getting playoff experience. You have to lose in the playoffs before you can win. Both the trade and sign, and the lack of appreciation for player experience in the playoffs show a video game mentality to managing. We have to remember that these are human beings and will learn from experience, and also don't always want to re-sign with a team that traded them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 39 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Savard will be 34 ... how many years would you want to sign him for? I wouldn’t… I was saying I would trade him at deadline get the assets and not look back, but others mentioned keeping him … so it was a compromise .. trade at deadline and resign. If I get that option to resign July 1 and want him and he wants to stay… one year sweetheart deal with promise to trade him to a contender if it’s not our year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 21 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: Due to his contract expiring, age, etc. I get it. I also love our defensive depth. For me the discussion relies on what we get in return as well as the unique aspect he brings as a veteran leader. Once I make the playoffs, I am trying to win. Savard has a Stanley Cup win which is not something to be overlooked. Some people don’t like talking about intangibles, but he brings them. He blocks a lot of shots. Outside of Matheson, we don’t have much veteran leadership on the back end. I’ll say it now and check back later. If we are even in the hunt for the playoffs, I will be surprised if we trade Savard. I think come the deadline, the obvious will happen and everything will rely on our standing, team health, etc. I wouldn’t love trading him for a third round pick or something though. Just doesn’t float my boat. Savard isn’t even someone I absolutely love, but I respect the qualities he does bring. I agree with this. Mentorship also has a value. The prospect cupboard is looking good, but if Reinbacher has a bad season, or Mailloux is a defensive trainwreck in his nhl games, they might even try to sign him. Hopefully the RD position looks strong enough at deadline time that if they're out of the picture, he can be traded. And if they are in the mix, he can continue to mentor and play his role. Which I feel will be a significant one this year, backing up Hutson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 nothing new in this but, MCKEEN’S 2024-25 NHL YEARBOOK – MONTREAL CANADIENS – Top 15 Prospect Profiles – Organizational Rank #2 (mckeenshockey.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 3 hours ago, BCHabnut said: I agree with this. Mentorship also has a value. The prospect cupboard is looking good, but if Reinbacher has a bad season, or Mailloux is a defensive trainwreck in his nhl games, they might even try to sign him. Hopefully the RD position looks strong enough at deadline time that if they're out of the picture, he can be traded. And if they are in the mix, he can continue to mentor and play his role. Which I feel will be a significant one this year, backing up Hutson. I think whether Montreal is in a playoff position or not, if there's a decent offer on the table for Savard, you still trade him. Keeping him for a playoff run that will almost certainly end in round 1 and losing him for nothing seems a little counter-intuitive to the rebuild to me. Now, if there's no decent offer on the table for him, that's a whole different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 56 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: I think whether Montreal is in a playoff position or not, if there's a decent offer on the table for Savard, you still trade him. Keeping him for a playoff run that will almost certainly end in round 1 and losing him for nothing seems a little counter-intuitive to the rebuild to me. Now, if there's no decent offer on the table for him, that's a whole different story. Not sure Guhle-Barron-Mailloux is what you want to be stuck with by trading Savard this season. What value is another 2nd/3rd rd pick to the Habs? I think has more value working with the kids, for this season anyways. Barring a trade for a 1st pairing RH d-man anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted September 27 Author Share Posted September 27 11 minutes ago, DON said: Not sure Guhle-Barron-Mailloux is what you want to be stuck with by trading Savard this season. What value is another 2nd/3rd rd pick to the Habs? I think has more value working with the kids, for this season anyways. What value is a second-round pick? Guys like Hutson, Kapanen, Heineman, Tuch and Struble? All are Habs' recent second-round picks ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 7 minutes ago, DON said: Not sure Guhle-Barron-Mailloux is what you want to be stuck with by trading Savard this season. What value is another 2nd/3rd rd pick to the Habs? I think has more value working with the kids, for this season anyways. Barring a trade for a 1st pairing RH d-man anyways. Even a 2nd/3rd at the deadline is better than an extra month of mentorship and letting him walk in July for free. If the knowledge can't be passed on in 5 previous month, the last month after the trade deadline isn't going to make a difference. I'm also not sure why when someone is traded for picks the assumption the pick is only a pick. Picks have value, and value can be used in more ways than the draft. It could be packaged for a bigger piece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted September 27 Author Share Posted September 27 A fourth or later is not worth much but a second-rounder still has real value! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 And relying on playing Guhle 23-25minutes with Mailloux playing 20 on 2nd pairing with another young d on 3rd pairing seems like a recipe for disaster, combined with Hutson-Xhekaj on left side also + the mentorship + loves it at home in Montreal and is french, is worth more than a pick. But if are in 26th place in Feb, then i agree and just play out another lost season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 Yes, it all depends on where we are in the standings and if the playoffs are realistic or not in February. Just making it and exposing the kids to playoff pressure has value. If that's not possible, of course you take the best trade you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 23 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: Even a 2nd/3rd at the deadline is better than an extra month of mentorship and letting him walk in July for free. If the knowledge can't be passed on in 5 previous month, the last month after the trade deadline isn't going to make a difference. I'm also not sure why when someone is traded for picks the assumption the pick is only a pick. Picks have value, and value can be used in more ways than the draft. It could be packaged for a bigger piece. Agreed, we saw that at the draft this year where Hughes used some extra picks to move up in the 1st round to draft Hage. If the Habs are not in the running for a playoff spot come the trade deadline then trading Savard is a no brainer assuming they can get a somewhat decent return (minimum 2nd round pick). I think Hughes is pretty shrewd when it comes to asset management, just don't see him letting Savard walk for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 I'm not even sure Mailloux even makes the team to start the year, let alone playing 2nd pairing or 20 minutes after a hypothetical Savard trade. It wouldn't be a shock if after training camp, Montreal picks up a RHD on waivers, if available, or hits the trade market to fill that role. No point in rushing Mailloux or Reinbacher to the NHL to fill a role they aren't ready for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 The trouble is, it's possible the Habs are neither clearly in nor clearly out at the deadline. I think we're a bubble team albeit one likely to fall on the wrong side of the line. If the team is in the playoffs at the deadline with Savard eating heavy minutes, I can see not trading him. If the team is seven points out of the playoffs with the deadline approaching, then obviously you trade hm. But say the team is two, three or four points out of a playoff spot with the deadline approaching. Do you ship out Savard etc. under those conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 16 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: I'm not even sure Mailloux even makes the team to start the year, let alone playing 2nd pairing or 20 minutes after a hypothetical Savard trade. It wouldn't be a shock if after training camp, Montreal picks up a RHD on waivers, if available, or hits the trade market to fill that role. No point in rushing Mailloux or Reinbacher to the NHL to fill a role they aren't ready for. I just don't see the Habs trading Savard until the deadline at the earliest so I don't see the need for picking up a RHD on waivers. They need to play Barron and find out if he sinks or swims. Struble can play the right side as well as Guhle. They traded Harris and Kovacevic to make room for the kids, they need to play them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: But say the team is two, three or four points out of a playoff spot with the deadline approaching. Do you ship out Savard etc. under those conditions? That is a very tough call to make it. I would say you keep Savard as trading him sends a negative message to the guys like Suzuki etc who are itching to make a run at a playoff spot. But if you get an offer you can't refuse?? I think it would have to be a heck of an offer to tempt Hughes in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 1 minute ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: That is a very tough call to make it. I would say you keep Savard as trading him sends a negative message to the guys like Suzuki etc who are itching to make a run at a playoff spot. But if you get an offer you can't refuse?? I think it would have to be a heck of an offer to tempt Hughes in that situation. The parallel is with the Souray year where Gainey stupidly kept Souray, using arguments much like these. However, the big difference is that Souray was having an absolutely monster career year (plus the Habs had no serious intention of re-signing him at market rates). He would have commanded a king's ransom at the deadline. So - I tend to agree. If you get an offer you can't refuse, take it. But the message is changing with the Habs this year, and it's legit to keep a guy instead of getting back a second-rounder for him if you're in the hunt for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted September 27 Author Share Posted September 27 Many variables: How close are we to the playoffs What are the realistic chances of winning a round or two How well is Savard (or whoever) playing What are the other teams willing to offer How well have Mailloux or Reinbacher (or whoever) developed Need to create a mathematical formula based on those variables! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 47 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: I'm not even sure Mailloux even makes the team to start the year, let alone playing 2nd pairing or 20 minutes after a hypothetical Savard trade. It wouldn't be a shock if after training camp, Montreal picks up a RHD on waivers, if available, or hits the trade market to fill that role. No point in rushing Mailloux or Reinbacher to the NHL to fill a role they aren't ready for. This is sort of my point. If neither of Mailloux or Reinbacher are ready, then who the heck is playing the right side the following season? Savard is not an ideal first or second pairing defenseman on a good team. He has been in that position since he got to the team, because the depth on the right side is so bad. I don't know that it's a given that he should be traded. Without a replacement that is going to be better, I would not trade him. Time to start improving now. Not in 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 5 minutes ago, BCHabnut said: This is sort of my point. If neither of Mailloux or Reinbacher are ready, then who the heck is playing the right side the following season? I think preseason this year is way too early to be thinking about who is playing RD next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 39 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Many variables: How close are we to the playoffs What are the realistic chances of winning a round or two How well is Savard (or whoever) playing What are the other teams willing to offer How well have Mailloux or Reinbacher (or whoever) developed Need to create a mathematical formula based on those variables! 😂 Yes, many variables that Hughes has to juggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted September 27 Author Share Posted September 27 23 minutes ago, BCHabnut said: This is sort of my point. If neither of Mailloux or Reinbacher are ready, then who the heck is playing the right side the following season? Mailloux and Reinbacher may not be ready today but they might (or might not) be ready a year from now. In the case of Mailloux, I really think that after a second year in Laval he ought to be ready for the NHL. And Reinbacher? One year may well be enough, given that he has two years of experience playing against men in Switzerland already. We'll have a much better idea on their progress six months from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 Given normal amount of injuries, Habs likely will dress at least 10 different d-men this season. So all likely will get to show what they got to offer at some point this season. A vet RH d-man for back-up wouldnt hurt to have/add. What kind of offensive numbers will Hutson put up this year? 10g 40pts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 I didnt realize Dach was doing quite so well on the PP. "...It’s also worth noting Kirby Dach had 16 power-play points (6G, 10A) in 2022-23 and figures to be back in the mix this season, possibly adding a playmaking element to the slot." Montreal Canadiens 2024-25 season preview: Playoff chances, projected points, roster rankings - The Athletic (nytimes.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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