2024-25 Montreal Canadiens discussion thread

[Dalhabs]

2 hours ago, Butterface said:

Since you guys loved my thoughts on who my core are and when we will be competitive, I put together a list… 

 

Last Bunch of Stanley Cup Champions and Their Rebuild Start Year..

 

2024 - Florida Panthers

   - Rebuild Start: 2017…….. 7 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Owen Tippett (10th overall in 2017)

 

2023 – Vegas Golden Knights

   - Rebuild Start: 2017 (Expansion Draft year)….. 6 years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Cody Glass (6th overall in 2017)

 

2022 – Colorado Avalanche

   - Rebuild Start: 2016…. 6 Years to Cup (maybe 9)

   - First Major Pick: Tyson Jost (10th overall in 2016)

   - Could argue MacKinnon (1st overall in 2013) Making 9 years to Cup

 

2020 – Tampa Bay Lightning

   - Rebuild Start: 2008…. 12 Years to Cup (Although got to finals in 2015) 

   -First Major Pick: Steven Stamkos (1st overall in 2008)

 

2019 – St. Louis Blues

   - Rebuild Start: 2007…… 12 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Lars Eller (13th overall in 2007)

 

2018 – Washington Capitals

   - Rebuild Start: 2004…… 14 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Alexander Ovechkin (1st overall in 2004)

 

2012 – Los Angeles Kings

   - Rebuild Start: 2006….. 6 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Jonathan Bernier (11th overall in 2006)

 

 

2010 – Chicago Blackhawks

   - Rebuild Start: 2004….. 6 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Cam Barker (3rd overall in 2004)

 

 

2009 – Pittsburgh Penguins

   - Rebuild Start: 2003….. 6 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Marc-Andre Fleury (1st overall in 2003)

 

 

Teams Still Trying…

 

Edmonton Oilers…… 14 Years No Cup

   - Rebuild Start: 2010

   - First Major Pick: Taylor Hall (1st overall in 2010)

   - McDavid drafted in 2015 (1st overall) So 9 Years No Cup in this case

 

Toronto Maple Leafs

   -Rebuild Start: 2015…. 10 Years No Cup

   -First Major Pick: Mitch Marner (4th overall in 2015)

   -Morgan Reilly 2012 could push No Cup to 13 Years

 

New York Rangers….. 6 Years No Cup

   - Rebuild Start: 2018 (announced via public letter to fans)

   - First Major Pick: Vitali Kravtsov (9th overall in 2018)

 

Carolina Hurricanes

   - Rebuild Start: 2015….. 10 Years No Cup

   - First Major Pick: Noah Hanifin (5th overall in 2015)

 

New Jersey Devils

   - Rebuild Start: 2016….. 8 Years No Cup

   - First Major Pick: Michael McLeod (12th overall in 2016)

 

Kings are about 5 or 6 years in on their rebuild….

 

So it takes 4-6 years to build something that can compete for the Conference and if you are lucky with superstars (Crosby, Kane, Matthews, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid) you can maybe speed up the time frame and compete for a cup in 6 or 7.

 

We are in year 3. You can argue that we will finally get a sniff at a possible Franchise player next year with Demidov…2024 Draft … 3-4 years later we should be cooking. 

 

I think I was guessing we would get competitive in the 2026-27 season (5th year) and look at being a real competitor in 2028-29.

2028-29 is 11 years after Suzuki’s draft year 2017 and he will be 29 almost 30. I guess he will have some gas in the tank still as a seasoned vet. If he keeps salary demands low and we can hang on to younger core players, the future is exciting. Just looks like crap now.

 

You guys see Hughes being able to make the trades to speed up being competitive earlier ? Anderson and Gallagher come of the books end of 2026-27 season. That’s when I see us taking the big steps. Until then steady progression with bumps.

 

 

Can you please stop writing in very big letters? Makes it look like you think your posts are so very much more important than all others.

[Butterface]

5 hours ago, Dalhabs said:

Can you please stop writing in very big letters? Makes it look like you think your posts are so very much more important than all others.

sorry I used notes on my iPad to cut and paste stuff there before cutting and pasting it on here… I didn’t want to retype cause I’m lazy.

 

 

[DON]

Wouldnt hurt my feelings any, if he just went away.

 

Bottom Six Minutes: Christian Dvorak has got to go

 

"...put him on waivers and hope that a stint with the Laval Rocket can do for him what it did for Joel Armia last season. Even if he doesn’t make it there, taking his $4.5 million cap hit off the books a little earlier all while freeing up a lineup spot for younger players is probably worth more than hoping he resurges enough to fetch a mid-round pick at the trade deadline."

 

 

With 18 goals in his last 20 NHL games played, doing 'OK'.

"...he scored eight goals in nine games played in April...." 

 

Montreal Canadiens Organizational Players of October

 

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, Butterface said:

sorry I used notes on my iPad to cut and paste stuff there before cutting and pasting it on here… I didn’t want to retype cause I’m lazy.

You should have a "Paste & Match Style" option that would resolve the font size issue.

[Butterface]

1 hour ago, DON said:

freeing up a lineup spot for younger players is probably worth more than hoping he resurges enough to fetch a mid-round pick at the trade deadline.

Hard to quantify, but yeah maybe.

 

Giving away a late 3rd round pick for free to a bottom feeding team likely already in a rebuild is also not great either. They just pick him up on waivers and flip him at deadline if they have the Cap space available to take on his salary in the meantime.

 

I know we aren’t hurting for more picks, but you can always take multiple picks and try to move lower in the draft. Something we will likely consider.

 

Hughes has been great at waiting for his price. I don’t expect him to make panic trades given our play of late. Nobody really believed we were going to be “in the mix” this year. I don’t think he should feel pressure because of the expression “in the mix”.

 

I am not sure moving a potential trade asset in his UFA year is smart management. At least no one was touching Armia because he had some term left.

 

Trade him now or wait until deadline I think is prudent move.

[Butterface]

8 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

You should have a "Paste & Match Style" option that would resolve the font size issue.

I will be more font aware next time. But understand I never even knew or heard of “Paste and Match Style” until you wrote it. If I find that button next time, I’ll use it.

 

 

[Commandant]

At this point, and at his salary... no one is giving up any pick for Dvorak without salary retention.  Not even at the deadline.   Just look at Tanner Pearson.  No one wanted him last year without retention and we had no retention spots.  Dvorak is playing worse than Pearson, and Pearson has Stanley Cup winning experience.   Colin White was another one we couldn't trade cause he just wasn't good.

Seeing as that salary retention spot is likely better used on Savard.... just waive him. 

 

 

And i don't even see any team grabbing him on waivers at full salary to be honest. 

[Butterface]

I mean maybe “in the mix” if Dach, Laine and Hutson were amazing for us.

 

If Reinbacher came up and filled in admirably when needed.

 

But Dach has had issues getting into the groove. Laine got hurt preseason. Reinbacher as well.

 

Hutson has excelled.

 

I just think we see how Dach improves and Laine adjusts and how the second half of season goes.

 

Disappointing given all the cake and balloons we had at the preseason golf tournament, but that’s the way things go sometimes.

 

Again our window is not open yet and we should take solace in that. If this happened when we were really expected to compete it would be soul crushing. 

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

46 minutes ago, Butterface said:

I know we aren’t hurting for more picks, but you can always take multiple picks and try to move lower in the draft. Something we will likely consider.

 

 

Hughes packaged multiple picks to move up to get Hage,  there is no doubt he has tried to package multiple picks for other trades and will do it again. He is more than considering it. It's about quality not quantity right now. 

[Butterface]

20 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Hughes packaged multiple picks to move up to get Hage,  there is no doubt he has tried to package multiple picks for other trades and will do it again. He is more than considering it. It's about quality not quantity right now. 

exactly my feeling

[Prime Minister Koivu]

 

[BCHabnut]

3 hours ago, DON said:

Wouldnt hurt my feelings any, if he just went away.

 

Bottom Six Minutes: Christian Dvorak has got to go

 

"...put him on waivers and hope that a stint with the Laval Rocket can do for him what it did for Joel Armia last season. Even if he doesn’t make it there, taking his $4.5 million cap hit off the books a little earlier all while freeing up a lineup spot for younger players is probably worth more than hoping he resurges enough to fetch a mid-round pick at the trade deadline."

 

 

With 18 goals in his last 20 NHL games played, doing 'OK'.

"...he scored eight goals in nine games played in April...." 

 

Montreal Canadiens Organizational Players of October

 

Is there a centre who has earned his spot?

[hab29RETIRED]

Just now, BCHabnut said:

Is there a centre who has earned his spot?

At this point, I'd say Dvorak's play has warranted giving his spot to someone who has a pulse and plays like they give a damn.

[BCHabnut]

Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

At this point, I'd say Dvorak's play has warranted giving his spot to someone who has a pulse and plays like they give a damn.

Haha. True. But I'd hate to have Beck come up when he's not ready. I suppose Heineman could centre a line and a winger could come up. How is Tuch playing? I'd like to see how he looks on 4th line duty.

[tomh009]

28 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Haha. True. But I'd hate to have Beck come up when he's not ready. I suppose Heineman could centre a line and a winger could come up. How is Tuch playing? I'd like to see how he looks on 4th line duty.

Besides Suzuki (and Dvorak) there are still four other centres already on the roster: Dach, Newhook, Evans and Kapanen. I should think we can make three lines out of those if Dvorak were to be waived (or traded).

[Butterface]

36 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Is there a centre who has earned his spot?

 
Nobody on this team has earned anything this year.

 

Suzuki and Evans are a lock at their spots at centre.

 

But there are other guys who can play centre.

 

Kapanen, Newhook, Dach… 

 

So Dvorak can be replaced.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

13 minutes ago, Butterface said:

 
Nobody on this team has earned anything this year.

 

Suzuki and Evans are a lock at their spots at centre.

 

But there are other guys who can play centre.

 

Kapanen, Newhook, Dach… 

 

So Dvorak can be replaced.

 

Newhook has not earned anything either. But I would have no problem with waiving Dvorak, who is complete garbage - and whose unshakable spot on the roster also defeats any messaging about accountability and standards - and using Kapanen in his place .

[Butterface]

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

I’d be a liar if I said I’m confident with either of our goaltenders. The team is inconsistent. The goalies are just as inconsistent.

 

if I was starting to build a contender today, I would not have either of these guys penciled in as potential targets to build a team out from. I’m really pulling for both of them and I want it to happen for either or both, but I’m not confident they can be the guy.

 

They have both been spectacular at times and both have been painful to watch at times.

 

Definitely think Monty has the ability to turn it around. I hope soon.

 

Primeau has performed (so I keep hearing) everywhere, but in the NHL. We have protected him and given him enough time to mature. This is when we are supposed to get rewarded. Not sure it will happen, but I again hope.

 

Hope is all I have with these two.

 

We will all hold our collective breaths to watch the first ten minutes.

 

The Penguins aren’t good. These are points we need to stay “in the mix”.

 

 

[tomh009]

5 hours ago, Butterface said:

sorry I used notes on my iPad to cut and paste stuff there before cutting and pasting it on here… I didn’t want to retype cause I’m lazy.

 

 

If you right-click and then "Paste without formatting" the text size will end up the usual one.

[Butterface]

2 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

If you right-click and then "Paste without formatting" the text size will end up the usual one.

Thanks. Hockey talk and formatting tips. This place is awesome.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

Is there a centre who has earned his spot?

 

With Suzuki, Dach, Newhook, Evans, and Kapanen all on the roster, it doesn't have to be a centre that gets called up. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

22 minutes ago, Butterface said:

I’d be a liar if I said I’m confident with either of our goaltenders. The team is inconsistent. The goalies are just as inconsistent.

 

if I was starting to build a contender today, I would not have either of these guys penciled in as potential targets to build a team out from. I’m really pulling for both of them and I want it to happen for either or both, but I’m not confident they can be the guy.

 

They have both been spectacular at times and both have been painful to watch at times.

 

Definitely think Monty has the ability to turn it around. I hope soon.

 

Primeau has performed (so I keep hearing) everywhere, but in the NHL. We have protected him and given him enough time to mature. This is when we are supposed to get rewarded. Not sure it will happen, but I again hope.

 

Hope is all I have with these two.

 

We will all hold our collective breaths to watch the first ten minutes.

 

The Penguins aren’t good. These are points we need to stay “in the mix”.

 

 

The good news with goaltending is that competition for a roster spot is coming soon. 
 

Both Dobes and Fowler have the potential to be better than Montembault and Primeau. 

[Butterface]

12 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

The good news with goaltending is that competition for a roster spot is coming soon. 
 

Both Dobes and Fowler have the potential to be better than Montembault and Primeau. 

Whole heartedly agree.

[alfredoh2009]

14 hours ago, Butterface said:

Since you guys loved my thoughts on who my core are and when we will be competitive, I put together a list… 

 

Last Bunch of Stanley Cup Champions and Their Rebuild Start Year..

 

2024 - Florida Panthers

   - Rebuild Start: 2017…….. 7 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Owen Tippett (10th overall in 2017)

 

2023 – Vegas Golden Knights

   - Rebuild Start: 2017 (Expansion Draft year)….. 6 years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Cody Glass (6th overall in 2017)

 

2022 – Colorado Avalanche

   - Rebuild Start: 2016…. 6 Years to Cup (maybe 9)

   - First Major Pick: Tyson Jost (10th overall in 2016)

   - Could argue MacKinnon (1st overall in 2013) Making 9 years to Cup

 

2020 – Tampa Bay Lightning

   - Rebuild Start: 2008…. 12 Years to Cup (Although got to finals in 2015) 

   -First Major Pick: Steven Stamkos (1st overall in 2008)

 

2019 – St. Louis Blues

   - Rebuild Start: 2007…… 12 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Lars Eller (13th overall in 2007)

 

2018 – Washington Capitals

   - Rebuild Start: 2004…… 14 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Alexander Ovechkin (1st overall in 2004)

 

2012 – Los Angeles Kings

   - Rebuild Start: 2006….. 6 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Jonathan Bernier (11th overall in 2006)

 

 

2010 – Chicago Blackhawks

   - Rebuild Start: 2004….. 6 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Cam Barker (3rd overall in 2004)

 

 

2009 – Pittsburgh Penguins

   - Rebuild Start: 2003….. 6 Years to Cup

   - First Major Pick: Marc-Andre Fleury (1st overall in 2003)

 

 

Teams Still Trying…

 

Edmonton Oilers…… 14 Years No Cup

   - Rebuild Start: 2010

   - First Major Pick: Taylor Hall (1st overall in 2010)

   - McDavid drafted in 2015 (1st overall) So 9 Years No Cup in this case

 

Toronto Maple Leafs

   -Rebuild Start: 2015…. 10 Years No Cup

   -First Major Pick: Mitch Marner (4th overall in 2015)

   -Morgan Reilly 2012 could push No Cup to 13 Years

 

New York Rangers….. 6 Years No Cup

   - Rebuild Start: 2018 (announced via public letter to fans)

   - First Major Pick: Vitali Kravtsov (9th overall in 2018)

 

Carolina Hurricanes

   - Rebuild Start: 2015….. 10 Years No Cup

   - First Major Pick: Noah Hanifin (5th overall in 2015)

 

New Jersey Devils

   - Rebuild Start: 2016….. 8 Years No Cup

   - First Major Pick: Michael McLeod (12th overall in 2016)

 

Kings are about 5 or 6 years in on their rebuild….

 

So it takes 4-6 years to build something that can compete for the Conference and if you are lucky with superstars (Crosby, Kane, Matthews, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid) you can maybe speed up the time frame and compete for a cup in 6 or 7.

 

We are in year 3. You can argue that we will finally get a sniff at a possible Franchise player next year with Demidov…2024 Draft … 3-4 years later we should be cooking. 

 

I think I was guessing we would get competitive in the 2026-27 season (5th year) and look at being a real competitor in 2028-29.

2028-29 is 11 years after Suzuki’s draft year 2017 and he will be 29 almost 30. I guess he will have some gas in the tank still as a seasoned vet. If he keeps salary demands low and we can hang on to younger core players, the future is exciting. Just looks like crap now.

 

You guys see Hughes being able to make the trades to speed up being competitive earlier ? Anderson and Gallagher come of the books end of 2026-27 season. That’s when I see us taking the big steps. Until then steady progression with bumps.

 

 

 

thank you for posting this. I did something similar last year where I also looked at how many elite players each of htese teams had to make the point that the Habs lack elite players in D, G and F. Deminov, Caufield and Slaf will take care of the forwards elite level. Habs will need elite goaltending and defense if they want to win a cup.

[alfredoh2009]

6 hours ago, Butterface said:

sorry I used notes on my iPad to cut and paste stuff there before cutting and pasting it on here… I didn’t want to retype cause I’m lazy.

 

 

I am posting from Linux an my fonts were small. there is a resize button at the top of each post. You can select all text and resize all