Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 3 Share Posted November 3 2 minutes ago, Dalhabs said: Can Xhekaj be sent down without waivers? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 It is too early to call on the coach to be replaced. I think they played better in their last game and I do not think a new coach would do any better. But... Pascal Vincent is doing some incredible work in Laval. Martin St. Louis is feeling the heat in Montreal. I don’t think anything is imminent and St. Louis should be allowed to work his way out of the mess of a season thus far, but I can’t remember the last time the Canadiens had… — Andrew Zadarnowski (@AZadarski) November 3, 2024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 27 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: It is too early to call on the coach to be replaced. I think they played better in their last game and I do not think a new coach would do any better. But... I agree ... but no "but" ... rebuilds and development is never linear ... coaching changes are "win now" moves ... THAT is not where the habs are I-M-O. If MSL needs to be replaced then I want it to be an off-season process when as many candidates as possible are available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 27 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: It is too early to call on the coach to be replaced. I think they played better in their last game and I do not think a new coach would do any better. But... It is too early, if the players are adapting to a new system then you need some patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 As I said in the other thread, the young D haven't quite learned the keys to look for to transition from Man to Man to Zone and back, and when to double team. This is normal for a new system. Remember Florida looked like they were gonna miss the playoffs in Maurice's first year.... then in the second half they took off, made the playoffs and only lost the Stanley Cup final. Then they won the cup, and now they are a powerhouse. Now obviously we won't be exactly the same, our talent level isn't at Florida's level right now, but you still have to assume that we will improve as the d system becomes more natural. There are some growing pains right now, but stick with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 58 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: It is too early, if the players are adapting to a new system then you need some patience. this is the 3rd year players have seen MSL’s system. The coach has said in interviews that the players know the system but that the execution is not there. Let’s see at the 20 game point where they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 Just now, alfredoh2009 said: this is the 3rd year players have seen MSL’s system. The coach has said in interviews that the players know the system but that the execution is not there. Let’s see at the 20 game point where they are MSL's third year coaching, is not the third year in the system. The hybrid Defensive system he installed this year is not what they have played the last two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 As for the players "knowing the system"... yes they know it. They haven't mastered it yet. Mastering a system in hockey, especially at the NHL level when it is SO VERY FAST, is that you know what to do by instinct. It becomes second nature. What I'm seeing now is a team that knows what to do but needs an extra half-second to think about it and at NHL speed, being that half second slower in processing is a killer. The only way for it to become instinctual is to have more and more repetitions playing the system and learning it. And here is the other thing, they aren't robots and won't learn it all at the same speed. So as we go, some will start doing it and others wont, which means it will still look discombobulated until everyone is playing it at full speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 Lines from practice this morning. I like giving Evans a shot on the second line but I wish it was at the expense of Newhook. Happy to see Slafkovsky on the ice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 18 minutes ago, Commandant said: MSL's third year coaching, is not the third year in the system. The hybrid Defensive system he installed this year is not what they have played the last two years. I guess my question would be. Why did MSL wait until his 3rd year coaching to install a new system? My apologies if this has been discussed already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 12 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I guess my question would be. Why did MSL wait until his 3rd year coaching to install a new system? My apologies if this has been discussed already. I don't think anyone has said why. Lets remember that in his first year they had like 4 Rookie Defencemen. Now they have 1 rookie, and while the other D are young, they aren't rookies. Maybe he felt that he wanted them to get some experience before putting it in. Maybe he wanted to teach other aspects first and not overwhelm them. He also came in originally in December, so there isn't a lot of practice time in that first season to change systems. So the question is why not the years after though? Maybe its a change in the defensive assistant coaching. Maybe its seeing the Hybrid system having success with Florida. The NHL has always been a copycat league. Maybe its a system he didn't fully understand at first, as remember he was an inexperienced coach. Maybe this is something he's learned over time and likes it and wants to implement it. There are other possibilities too. I don't think we have a true answer though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 2 minutes ago, Commandant said: I don't think anyone has said why. Lets remember that in his first year they had like 4 Rookie Defencemen. Now they have 1 rookie, and while the other D are young, they aren't rookies. Maybe he felt that he wanted them to get some experience before putting it in. Maybe he wanted to teach other aspects first and not overwhelm them. Maybe its a change in the defensive assistant coaching. Maybe its seeing the Hybrid system having success with Florida. The NHL has always been a copycat league. There are other possibilities too. I don't think we have a true answer though. Fair enough, I can understand not making any drastic changes his 1st year while he is still getting his feet wet as a coach but you would think his 2nd year would be the time for implementing new things. Anyway, just wondered. The players will have to adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 17 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I guess my question would be. Why did MSL wait until his 3rd year coaching to install a new system? My apologies if this has been discussed already. I expect it was a question of implementing changes progressively, and extrapolating from what Commandant said, waiting until the young defencemen were more ready to adapt to the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 3 minutes ago, GHT120 said: I expect it was a question of implementing changes progressively, and extrapolating from what Commandant said, waiting until the young defencemen were more ready to adapt to the change. Perhaps but sometimes change is easier when you are younger before old habits become too ingrained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 7 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Perhaps but sometimes change is easier when you are younger before old habits become too ingrained. Thats true, but the other factor is overwhelming someone with more than they can handle isn't good too. There is a lot of change for rookies entering the league as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 2 minutes ago, Commandant said: Thats true, but the other factor is overwhelming someone with more than they can handle isn't good too. There is a lot of change for rookies entering the league as is. Yeah, it's a balancing act. I guess you just have to trust the coaches to exercise good judgement. It's their job on the line if it doesn't work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted November 4 Author Share Posted November 4 1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I like giving Evans a shot on the second line but I wish it was at the expense of Newhook. At the moment, with the St-Louis blender set to "MAX", there isn't really so much difference between the second line and the fourth line, all are getting ice time as they try to figure out what works and what doesn't. Compare the TOI for the centres (Dach didn't spend any time at C as I recall) in the Pittsburgh game: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 22 minutes ago, tomh009 said: At the moment, with the St-Louis blender set to "MAX", there isn't really so much difference between the second line and the fourth line, all are getting ice time as they try to figure out what works and what doesn't. Compare the TOI for the centres (Dach didn't spend any time at C as I recall) in the Pittsburgh game: Thanks for posting this. Without looking at ice time I would have guessed that Newhook got more. I very much like the kid but I don’t think he fits with Dach - at least Newhook looked pretty good last season with Gallagher, Anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 29 minutes ago, tomh009 said: At the moment, with the St-Louis blender set to "MAX", there isn't really so much difference between the second line and the fourth line, all are getting ice time as they try to figure out what works and what doesn't. Compare the TOI for the centres (Dach didn't spend any time at C as I recall) in the Pittsburgh game: does that website have the average shift length? or can it be calculated from =TOI/shifts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted November 4 Author Share Posted November 4 23 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: does that website have the average shift length? or can it be calculated from =TOI/shifts ? The number of shifts is there. https://moneypuck.com/g.htm?id=2024020138 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted November 4 Author Share Posted November 4 26 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I very much like the kid but I don’t think he fits with Dach - at least Newhook looked pretty good last season with Gallagher, Anderson. That was with Gallagher and Armia over the last third of the season, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 27 minutes ago, tomh009 said: The number of shifts is there. https://moneypuck.com/g.htm?id=2024020138 thanks for sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 5 hours ago, Commandant said: I don't think anyone has said why. Lets remember that in his first year they had like 4 Rookie Defencemen. Now they have 1 rookie, and while the other D are young, they aren't rookies. Maybe he felt that he wanted them to get some experience before putting it in. Maybe he wanted to teach other aspects first and not overwhelm them. He also came in originally in December, so there isn't a lot of practice time in that first season to change systems. So the question is why not the years after though? Maybe its a change in the defensive assistant coaching. Maybe its seeing the Hybrid system having success with Florida. The NHL has always been a copycat league. Maybe its a system he didn't fully understand at first, as remember he was an inexperienced coach. Maybe this is something he's learned over time and likes it and wants to implement it. There are other possibilities too. I don't think we have a true answer though. This talk of systems is actually very helpful. I'd kind of forgotten that we were implementing a new system. MSL isn't doing himself any favours by not mentioning it every chance he gets - because, to me, a lot of what we're seeing can be explained by players struggling to apply the new system. That often happens to teams when they change systems. It explains why this group seems to have lost its mojo and its shared belief: players are no longer quite sure, in that split second, of what they need to do and are no longer confident the other guy will be where he needs to be either. As you say, there's nothing for it but to keep plugging away, keep at it. Eventually a critical mass of familiarity should be reached. At that point, we may still lose a lot of games, but at least the players will be in sync doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 50 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: This talk of systems is actually very helpful. I'd kind of forgotten that we were implementing a new system. MSL isn't doing himself any favours by not mentioning it every chance he gets - because, to me, a lot of what we're seeing can be explained by players struggling to apply the new system. That often happens to teams when they change systems. It explains why this group seems to have lost its mojo and its shared belief: players are no longer quite sure, in that split second, of what they need to do and are no longer confident the other guy will be where he needs to be either. As you say, there's nothing for it but to keep plugging away, keep at it. Eventually a critical mass of familiarity should be reached. At that point, we may still lose a lot of games, but at least the players will be in sync doing it. Good post. If you have to think instead of react then you lose a split second which can be costly playing a fast game. It might explain why the Habs have been dominated for long stretches in their own end. Players weren't sure who to cover. I didn't expect the Habs to win the cup this year so I will be more patient. They didn't have a lot of preseason time for the vets to gel with the new system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 15 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I didn't expect the Habs to win the cup this year so I will be more patient. Most on here predicted a lottery finish and no playoffs. And 0% thought would win the cup, safe bet i think. Currently tied for 29th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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