2024-25 Montreal Canadiens discussion thread

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, Butterface said:

Getting back to the real point, because I don’t think we are disagreeing on anything…..

 

I’m sure everyone said Lindros. With equal talent to score points, we’d choose Lindros’ size and ability to impose his will with strength and intimidation.

 

Now ask yourself if Lindros produced only 90% of Fleury’s output would you now consider Fleury over Lindros ? At what point would you drop Lindros and pick up Fleury ?

 

Now it’s got people thinking about skill versus size. There isn’t a mathematical formula that I know of to measure one versus the other. It’s in the eye of the beholder. But there is a value to truculence, size, intimidation, angst and anger.

 

Armia and Dach play small. Anderson less so, but wow could he ever be good if he did engage an inner Tom Wilson. I am not asking for something he doesn't have. So yeah, to answer chicoutimi’s original question, we need to bring in (not goons) but a few players with the right balance of size and skill. 
 

The guys with size and skill are unicorns and cost a lot. We need some bangers that can still play the game. A couple of Cal Clutterbucks to replace Armia and Anderson. You know guys that no one wants finishing a check on them.
 

 

I follow your point and disagree in principle. Clutterbuck! Really ?!

We have Pezzetta and he is not being played by MSL. The current team philosophy does not use physical intimidating forecheck as a tool in their playbook. The team has been built very similar to what Gainey was building, except that they lack the elite goaltender to bail them out

[Butterface]

37 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I follow your point and disagree in principle. Clutterbuck! Really ?!

 

🤣 don’t disparage Cal ! He hit hard and often.

Long career and only suspended once for 2 games.

 

What is the principle you are disagreeing on ?

 

 

 

[Commandant]

Armia plays small?  He's one of our best forwards at winning battles on the boards, and is at his best playing on a line with other players who work that style.... See when he played with Perry and Staal.... I've also thought he's been good lately on a line with Condotta and Heineman.  I don't think we watch the same player. 

 

And Cal Clutterbuck? He's terrible now.  37 years old and hasn't scored double digit goals since 2016.  Not exactly a piece to pursue in a rebuild. 

 

And if you think that MSL's forecheck and what we had under the Gainey team with Cammalleri, Gomez, Gionta, Plekanec, etc... is the same.  I don't know what to tell you. 

[DON]

Habs are adding softhitting Roy, and softie Laine soon. 

Should we worry what Hughes is doing, in creating a team full of wimpy players?

[Butterface]

4 hours ago, DON said:

Habs are adding softhitting Roy, and softie Laine soon. 

Should we worry what Hughes is doing, in creating a team full of wimpy players?

I’m not worried yet. If we still look like this two, three, four years from now, I will be concerned.

 

He’s brought in players (Newhook and Dach) to add skill. Skill is harder to find than toughness. Toughness with skill is really hard to find (Bennett, Wilson, the Tkachuks).

 

I think if he continues to get high draft picks in 2025 and 2026 and takes all the skill he’s acquired from the past three years and those next two drafts, he will have a huge pool of resources to go out and find the third and fourth line bodies to plug into the lower paying grunt-work jobs. We can’t afford all this skill after their ELCs expire (Hutson, Hage, Fowler, Demidov, Mailloux, Reinbacher, 2025 and 2026 picks) so we need to get our core whittled down.

 

Xhekaj will be a guy who doesn’t break the bank and can be utilized the same way, but on defence. Xhekaj will be solid in a couple of years. A decent 5-6 guy.

 

But while the team sucks and you can benefit from low picks and have multiple extra picks by selling your UFAs, you stock up on skill.

 

We can clear out Armia and Anderson and find better (cheaper % cap) energy guys. Maybe get Gally on a one year team-friendly deal or trade him to a contender so he can try for a cup.

 

In the mean time we need to keep Xhekaj around so Demidov gets a protector. Hopefully we find a forward who can do the job in the offseason unless Anderson wants to step-up more often like he did to Wilson. Anderson sent a message when he stuck up for Guhle. It was good for team morale too.

 

[DON]

I would prefer seeing Struble and/or Engstrom playing over Xhekaj.

But, i am not a big Xhekaj fan.

If just need a goon, waste a winger spot for that.

[Butterface]

2 hours ago, DON said:

I would prefer seeing Struble and/or Engstrom playing over Xhekaj.

But, i am not a big Xhekaj fan.

If just need a goon, waste a winger spot for that.

I don’t think anyone wants a goon…. even me.

 

Yes, it is better to have a winger doing that. Anderson is perfect for the role, just not mean enough and too pricey. Anderson is really not useful until he either starts racking up some points or starts announcing his presence with authority. (crash bang boom). One, the other or both. But him doing neither is no use to us. At the moment he kills penalties for 5.5 million a year. He has been better last 5 games.. I’ll give him that.

 

Maybe Tuch can come up and fill that role next year. Maybe Hughes finds it elsewhere. But I don’t want a one-dimensional Reaves type. I’d rather have a big body, some defensive skills, has anger issues (but picks his spots),  7-10 goals, 10-12 assists. Someone slightly better than Pez that can be a constant in the line up. Pez 2.0

 

Xhekaj is having ups and downs like all these guys. He played fine against the Oilers. Struggled versus Vegas. If we can make Xhekaj into a consistent NHLer, the upside for the team or his trade value will be tremendous. Crushing hits, big slap shot, stands up for team mates. I say we keep playing him until we decide what we want with him.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I dunno. I suspect that if Slaf and Dach were playing like they’re supposed to - big, strong, hard on the puck, and offensively dangerous - the “size” narrative would be at best a minor concern.

 

Right now we have three FW who are meaningful threats: CC, Slick Nick, and Gally. That’s a farce.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Laine is set to return on Sunday or Tuesday. 
 

Where would you play him? What about Roy? Is he going back to Laval or does he have a place? 

 

Caufield - Suzuki - Newhook was good enough to earn more time together. 
 

Anderson - Dvorak - Gallagher is very likely to be kept in tact - Although I wouldn’t mind if Roy took Anderson’s spot. 
 

RHP’s conditioning stint won’t last forever but I don’t see a spot for him. He might get put on waivers. 
 

Caufield - Suzuki - Newhook 

Laine - Evans - Roy/Slafkovsky

Anderson - Dvorak - Gallagher 

Armia - Dach - Heineman 

 

What would you do?

[Commandant]

I thought caufield Suzuki newhook sucked.  Yes newhook got a goal but it was on a line change and the other two were off the ice.  Newhook looked lost with the other two.  I wouldnt keep him there.

 

 

[Butterface]

 

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Laine is set to return on Sunday or Tuesday. 
 

Where would you play him? What about Roy?

 

I’d play Laine on first power play and hope he gets a jump start on a goal or assist. Get him feeling good as soon as possible.

 

I did think Newhook played well with his speed on top line, but I would prefer we get confidence into Laine quickly. If we aren’t putting Slaf on top line, we should be putting Laine there.

 

I don’t hate the idea of sending Slaf down for a few games. JUST A FEW GAMES to hopefully get his mojo back. To play him on the fourth line is doing nothing positive. Either play him on first line to get him on track or put him down to AHL to slow the game down for him and let him get confidence.

 

We are a team of young players, UFAs we are saying goodbye to, millstone contracts, Suzuki and Matheson, Dach and Newhook. We are not a great team. Should we doing better ? If Dach and Slaf could get going again we could be passable. If Montembeault plays like he can every game, we are a better team. If Laine starts pouring in goals, we will win a few more.
 

Until then we will be bad. Bad enough for a top 5 pick. I think we need to be top 3 to get a really good player.

 

As for Roy, because I was away last year I did not see him much. I saw him struggle vs Ottawa preseason. I don’t watch Laval games, but stats show he is back in form. I noticed him once in the game last night. I don’t think he played that much.

 

I’d like to see more of him before making any huge revelations. Keep him on the ice with skilled players and play him more would be my first thought. Let’s see if he can be the player people keep saying he is. 

 

I listened to Marinaro and Lapierre and thought some valid points were made.

https://canadiensaggr.com/media-player/71643/martin-st-louis-enough-is-enough 

 

I disagreed with running out to trade for a centre in the offseason. I still want to hoard assets for two years and then make that kind of deal. Which yes, does begin to eat into Suzuki and Caufield window years. But I think it makes us better for longer.

 

 

 

 

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

26 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I thought caufield Suzuki newhook sucked.  Yes newhook got a goal but it was on a line change and the other two were off the ice.  Newhook looked lost with the other two.  I wouldnt keep him there.

 

 

I liked Newhook’s speed and forecheck but its possible that I’m romanticizing the first period where Caufield was all over the place. 
 

That line wasn’t great in the second or third

[Prime Minister Koivu]

7 minutes ago, Butterface said:

 

 

I’d play Laine on first power play and hope he gets a jump start on a goal or assist. Get him feeling good as soon as possible.

 

I did think Newhook played well with his speed on top line, but I would prefer we get confidence into Laine quickly. If we aren’t putting Slaf on top line, we should be putting Laine there.

 

I don’t hate the idea of sending Slaf down for a few games. JUST A FEW GAMES to hopefully get his mojo back. To play him on the fourth line is doing nothing positive. Either play him on first line to get him on track or put him down to AHL to slow the game down for him and let him get confidence.

 

We are a team of young players, UFAs we are saying goodbye to, millstone contracts, Suzuki and Matheson, Dach and Newhook. We are not a great team. Should we doing better ? If Dach and Slaf could get going again we could be passable. If Montembeault plays like he can every game, we are a better team. If Laine starts pouring in goals, we will win a few more.
 

Until then we will be bad. Bad enough for a top 5 pick. I think we need to be top 3 to get a really good player.

 

As for Roy, because I was away last year I did not see him much. I saw him struggle vs Ottawa preseason. I don’t watch Laval games, but stats show he is back in form. I noticed him once in the game last night. I don’t think he played that much.

 

I’d like to see more of him before making any huge revelations. Keep him on the ice with skilled players and play him more would be my first thought. Let’s see if he can be the player people keep saying he is. 

 

I listened to Marinaro and Lapierre and thought some valid points were made.

https://canadiensaggr.com/media-player/71643/martin-st-louis-enough-is-enough 

 

I disagreed with running out to trade for a centre in the offseason. I still want to hoard assets for two years and then make that kind of deal. Which yes, does begin to eat into Suzuki and Caufield window years. But I think it makes us better for longer.

 

 

 

 

 

A Laval trip for Slafkovsky a la Xhekaj’s trip last season might do Slafkovsky good. 
 

He has lost all of his swagger 

[GHT120]

3 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

A Laval trip for Slafkovsky a la Xhekaj’s trip last season might do Slafkovsky good. 
 

He has lost all of his swagger 

 

It would also give Hughes some time to manage Laine's return to the roster.

[Commandant]

Slafkovsky looks like a guy playing with zero confidence.  Everything I've seen since he was drafted tells me he's a player who cares, and cares a lot.  I don't think he's dogging it.  I think its a situation where he is not playing his natural game cause he is pressing too hard to make a difference. 

 

I know we've seen him getting hit with the stick here, but it might be worth promoting him quickly if he has a few good shifts and helping him get his confidence back.  

 

Hopefully soon, so that when Laine returns.

 

Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky

Laine - Evans - Roy

Anderson - Dvorak - Gallagher

Armia - Dach - Newhook

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

8 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Slafkovsky looks like a guy playing with zero confidence.  Everything I've seen since he was drafted tells me he's a player who cares, and cares a lot.  I don't think he's dogging it.  I think its a situation where he is not playing his natural game cause he is pressing too hard to make a difference. 

 

 

I agree 100% with those comments. I don't why they just didn't leave Slaf, Suzuki, and Caulfield together. I guess coaches like to tinker when maybe they should just leave things alone. Changing linemates all the time can't be good for his confidence. 

[Helmethead]

If I were Marty i'd put Dach back at the 2C position.

 

Minus the half assed attempt to defend that OT goal he had a good game.

 

And he was visibly pissed at himself after it too.

 

Caufield - Suzuki - Slaf

Laine - Dach - Roy

Anderson - Dvorak - Gallagher

Armia - Evans - Newhook

[Butterface]

On 11/25/2024 at 11:55 AM, Butterface said:

A couple of Cal Clutterbucks to replace Armia and Anderson

Maybe English isn’t a first language to everyone here or maybe people just like to glob onto other peoples posts to make themselves feel bigger… sad because I don’t do that to others. But it doesn’t mean go and trade for the actual Cal Clutterbuck. It means go find a couple of Clutterbucks. Young guys, in our teams age bracket, that will lay the body similar to a couple of Cal Clutterbucks. Create space. Forecheck. Play with passion. Get the team going through raw adrenaline.

 

There are some great people here to bounce ideas around. But there are one or two that ride around on white horses and just shoot others down. They find a sentence and manipulate its meaning so they can take a pot shot.

 

The same people who won’t go out on a limb with their own ideas and generate conversations on here. 
 

I’ll say things again that I said when I joined in September. Suzuki will not be part of the core when his contract expires. He is not part of my immediate core of 5 now really. Granted some of my core are not in the NHL yet. It will be two more years before this team starts winning with consistency. With respect to Reinbacher and Slafkovsky the rebuild starts with Demidov. We need to finish very low this year and get a top three pick. It is crucial because I have not seen huge progress with the team. We need more assets. Next year will also be painful.

 

We need more “Brady Tzachuk” emotion and energy and caring. Anderson needs to bring it more. Armia has never had it. He can protect the puck, sure. When is the last time he stood up for a team mate ? When is the last time he crashed the net ? He plays small. No question about it. Give me a Cal Clutterbuck in his prime over Armia in his any day. Cal Clutterbuck came to play everyday.

 

Instead of people trying to bring down others why don’t you bring ideas that might be controversial, but make others think. Ideas that drive the chat in chat boards. Sure bring the facts, bring the pie graphs, bring all the advanced statistics. Change peoples opinions. But please don’t just obfuscate other peoples ideas and change them to try to bring yourself up. It’s puerile. Have some class. Understand satire and sarcasm too. Or are some of us too slow to comprehend ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Commandant]

Are we back on the Suzuki won't be part of the core cause his contract thing again?

 

The guy who has 6 years remaining on his deal?

 

Also how is that Sens rebuild built around Brady Tkachuk going?

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

37 minutes ago, Butterface said:

Maybe English isn’t a first language to everyone here or maybe people just like to glob onto other peoples posts to make themselves feel bigger… sad because I don’t do that to others. But it doesn’t mean go and trade for the actual Cal Clutterbuck. It means go find a couple of Clutterbucks. Young guys, in our teams age bracket, that will lay the body similar to a couple of Cal Clutterbucks. Create space. Forecheck. Play with passion. Get the team going through raw adrenaline.

 

There are some great people here to bounce ideas around. But there are one or two that ride around on white horses and just shoot others down. They find a sentence and manipulate its meaning so they can take a pot shot.

 

The same people who won’t go out on a limb with their own ideas and generate conversations on here. 
 

I’ll say things again that I said when I joined in September. Suzuki will not be part of the core when his contract expires. He is not part of my immediate core of 5 now really. Granted some of my core are not in the NHL yet. It will be two more years before this team starts winning with consistency. With respect to Reinbacher and Slafkovsky the rebuild starts with Demidov. We need to finish very low this year and get a top three pick. It is crucial because I have not seen huge progress with the team. We need more assets. Next year will also be painful.

 

We need more “Brady Tzachuk” emotion and energy and caring. Anderson needs to bring it more. Armia has never had it. He can protect the puck, sure. When is the last time he stood up for a team mate ? When is the last time he crashed the net ? He plays small. No question about it. Give me a Cal Clutterbuck in his prime over Armia in his any day. Cal Clutterbuck came to play everyday.

 

Instead of people trying to bring down others why don’t you bring ideas that might be controversial, but make others think. Ideas that drive the chat in chat boards. Sure bring the facts, bring the pie graphs, bring all the advanced statistics. Change peoples opinions. But please don’t just obfuscate other peoples ideas and change them to try to bring yourself up. It’s puerile. Have some class. Understand satire and sarcasm too. Or are some of us too slow to comprehend ? 

 

 

A lot to digest there.  It's true that some people like to be negative and don't really read an entire post before responding or will twist things to suit their narrative but I think overall most posters here are pretty fair. Sometimes posters will agree with me sometimes disagree. I am not offended when people disagree as I have been around long enough to know that everyone sees things differently. 

 

I think Nick signed that long term contract expecting to be part of the core for a while and I think he will. It's been a frustrating year but things may look a whole lot different in a year or two. I like Brady Tkachuk's emotion but something is missing there, Ottawa seems to be in a big rut, whether they just can't make the pieces fit or that losing mentality is too ingrained, I don't know the answer there. 

[Butterface]

On 11/2/2024 at 2:44 PM, Butterface said:

Goaltending is also why I think we will take a little longer in oven to build this team. Goaltending needs seasoning. Or maybe Fowler will be a Roy, Dryden or Ward. 

 

I think I said in my giant awkward font post that we would get competitive in 2026-27 and be a real competitor in 2028-29.

 

No disrespect to Slafkovsky and Reinbacher, but I think the rebuild began with Demidov.

 

With Reinbacher being hurt and progression likely slowed, we kind of lost some time.

 

Demidov if he is good as he looks will move the needle.

 

Fowler might not be ready out of the gate.

 

So in 2028-29 we have a legit shot and then 2029-30 we have a second chance.After the second shot if we don’t have a cup, we have to renegotiate the Suzuki contract. If it’s too much we have to consider a Stamkos goodbye. We will want to save money for Demidov, Reinbacher, Hage, Fowler, Hutson etc who are younger and more core at that time. But if his demands are reasonable then great.

 

Pittsburgh should have blown up the Franchise. I was shocked when they traded for Swedish Jesus.

 

I won’t condemn Gallagher. He has played his heart out and still contributing to this franchise. But we paid him too much $$ and term. One or the other would have been okay, but not both.

 

Tavares is playing great, but not worth the $$. Money they could use elsewhere. But I do think Toronto has done well in offseason. Smart money. Still hate Reaves (rather Anderson but for less money), but liked Lorentz and Defensemen pick ups….Tanev especially. Back up (or starter) Stolarz too. They have grit, truculence and now defence and a goalie. They may give Florida and the Rangers a hard time. Treliving waited a year for the UFAs he wanted. I wondered why he didn’t do anything much his first year.

 

I think Habs management are doing great things. I hope the fan base can be patient a bit longer before we take the training wheels off and go for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That explains Suzuki from Nov 2nd.

 

Lapierre hinted similar last night. Biron agreed two years in an interview with Gino Reda just over the weekend.

 

As for Tzachuk… not well. Would you rather Tzachuk or Dvorak (Kotkaneimi) on your team now ? I don’t expect present management to make the same mistakes and they can’t make an exact replica of the Senators. So I don’t really care about the Sens. Not sure your argument. Makes no sense.

 

 

[Butterface]

31 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

but I think overall most posters here are pretty fair. Sometimes posters will agree with me sometimes disagree. I am not offended when people disagree as I have been around long enough to know that everyone sees things differently. 

Agree and I will disagree with people and either offer a respectful counter argument or I will think about what they said and not reply.

 

But just to show what petty is I posted something on last nights game chat.

 

Thats how that guy operates and I begin to see why the potato head guy doesn’t like him.
 

 

[Commandant]

1 minute ago, Butterface said:

Agree and I will disagree with people and either offer a respectful counter argument or I will think about what they said and not reply.

 

But just to show what petty is I posted something on last nights game chat.

 

Thats how that guy operates and I begin to see why the potato head guy doesn’t like him.
 

 

 

If you are going to attack me.... please do your research. 

 

Just like you didn't do your research on Suzuki's contract, you also haven't done your research on me. 

 

"The same people who won’t go out on a limb with their own ideas and generate conversations on here. "

 

If you think I don't go out on a limb and present my own ideas on this team and how to rebuild it... you've read very few of my posts.  I don't think anyone here who is a regular would ever accuse me of not presenting ideas and generating conversations.  To suggest otherwise is just ignorance. 

 

If you want to engage with me, I'm more than happy to, but I don't put up with foolishness.... if you say things like the missing piece is a couple of players like Cal Clutterbuck, or that Nick Suzuki won't be part of the team's core, I'm going to dismiss you.  I'm sorry but saying the team's number one centre isn't part of the solution and what the team needs is a fourth line winger who hits more.  This type of mentality is something I'm not going to engage with. 

 

If you actually want to talk about skill, systems, strategies, and hockey talk.... I'll do it all day. 

 

If your solution is we need more grit; and to say the team's best player, captain, highest paid, and on a six year deal is not part of the core.... well yeah, I don't have time to respond to those kinds of posts other than to politely say that they are foolish.

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, Butterface said:

Maybe English isn’t a first language to everyone here or maybe people just like to glob onto other peoples posts to make themselves feel bigger… sad because I don’t do that to others. But it doesn’t mean go and trade for the actual Cal Clutterbuck. It means go find a couple of Clutterbucks. Young guys, in our teams age bracket, that will lay the body similar to a couple of Cal Clutterbucks. Create space. Forecheck. Play with passion. Get the team going through raw adrenaline.

 

There are some great people here to bounce ideas around. But there are one or two that ride around on white horses and just shoot others down. They find a sentence and manipulate its meaning so they can take a pot shot.

 

The same people who won’t go out on a limb with their own ideas and generate conversations on here. 
 

I’ll say things again that I said when I joined in September. Suzuki will not be part of the core when his contract expires. He is not part of my immediate core of 5 now really. Granted some of my core are not in the NHL yet. It will be two more years before this team starts winning with consistency. With respect to Reinbacher and Slafkovsky the rebuild starts with Demidov. We need to finish very low this year and get a top three pick. It is crucial because I have not seen huge progress with the team. We need more assets. Next year will also be painful.

 

We need more “Brady Tzachuk” emotion and energy and caring. Anderson needs to bring it more. Armia has never had it. He can protect the puck, sure. When is the last time he stood up for a team mate ? When is the last time he crashed the net ? He plays small. No question about it. Give me a Cal Clutterbuck in his prime over Armia in his any day. Cal Clutterbuck came to play everyday.

 

Instead of people trying to bring down others why don’t you bring ideas that might be controversial, but make others think. Ideas that drive the chat in chat boards. Sure bring the facts, bring the pie graphs, bring all the advanced statistics. Change peoples opinions. But please don’t just obfuscate other peoples ideas and change them to try to bring yourself up. It’s puerile. Have some class. Understand satire and sarcasm too. Or are some of us too slow to comprehend ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am sorry if I am one of the posters that made you feel that way. In my case English is my third language and I have posted before that I try to do my best: but also that I do not take myself too seriously. I come here to have fun and escape the day-to-day grind 

 

Keep posting. I enjoy your ideas

[alfredoh2009]

3 hours ago, Butterface said:

Agree and I will disagree with people and either offer a respectful counter argument or I will think about what they said and not reply.

 

But just to show what petty is I posted something on last nights game chat.

 

Thats how that guy operates and I begin to see why the potato head guy doesn’t like him.
 

 

if you want to borrow (mod edited)