Commandant Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Every goalie, including Price, Shesterkin, and others take breaks. There is a reason why in the last 10 years or so... there are very few goalies in the Stanley Cup final who played 60 regular season games or more. Thats 75% of the season. Goalies are just better when they are rested which is my most teams have their backups playing 30% or more of games.... Ive defended Monty more than anyone and saying that Dobes should play 1 out of every 3 games and the starter should play 2/3rds is not lack of faith in him... but sure run those narratives and put words in people's mouths. Build that strawman argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, Commandant said: Every goalie, including Price, Shesterkin, and others take breaks. There is a reason why in the last 10 years or so... there are very few goalies in the Stanley Cup final who played 60 regular season games or more. Thats 75% of the season. Goalies are just better when they are rested which is my most teams have their backups playing 30% or more of games.... Ive defended Monty more than anyone and saying that Dobes should play 1 out of every 3 games and the starter should play 2/3rds is not lack of faith in him... but sure run those narratives and put words in people's mouths. Build that strawman argument. So let’s have your reasoning behind: 1) Why is Montembeault starting tonight? 2) Why has Shesterkin started 7 games in a row, including a back to back on March 15th and 16th? Of course starting goalies take breaks. Thank you for that information. The point was that they don’t take breaks under this circumstance. Unless one has doubt about their game. I’m also not putting words in anyone’s mouth because when I talk about someone having doubt in Montembeault, I am talking about St. Louis, who would be the one making the decision. Not fans who’s opinion it is to start Dobeš tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1) thats the coach's.choice... one I disagree with. 2) what's the rangers record in those 7 straight starts? 2-4-1 Maybe they should give him a break and put on Quick one of.those games. Quick has been good for.them. You can appeal to authority all you want. If we accept the premise that just cause an NHL coach does something that means its always the right decision and no one can disagree, then we might as well shutdown all message boards as contrary opinions are not allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 3 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: Montembeault confirmed as the starter tonight. This feels like a mistake to me. Monty has let in some bad ones in his last two starts, showing signs of fatigue. He needs a rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, Commandant said: 1) thats the coach's.choice... one I disagree with. 2) what's the rangers record in those 7 straight starts? 2-4-1 Maybe they should give him a break and put on Quick one of.those games. Quick has been good for.them. You can appeal to authority all you want. If we accept the premise that just cause an NHL coach does something that means its always the right decision and no one can disagree, then we might as well shutdown all message boards as contrary opinions are not allowed. Since the question wasn’t answered, I’ll answer it for you. The answer is because they are the starting goalies and both teams are in a playoff race. You insinuate that others are making straw man arguments and then you proceed to use a hypothetical situation as an argument. Perhaps Quick would have won. You know what? Perhaps he would have lost. It proves nothing. I already stated a few days ago that I thought Montembeault had a higher than normal chance to start today’s game precisely because of our situation in the standings. I also stated that I can see reasons why Dobeš could be argued as the starter. It was my opinion prior to St. Louis’ decision and it’s one that I happen to understand. But I also now understand, your opinion is the only one that is valid, meaning you are right and everyone else is wrong, even when it goes against what actual professionals are deciding. Montembeault has played 6 games in over two weeks and in the entire month of March. That’s hardly a lot of games. People are noticing these weak goals now but he’s always let in weak goals. It has nothing to do with fatigue. That is a narrative. He’s also literally not lost a game in regulation since February 8th. Why is that statistic being avoided when discussing his fatigue level? I know some people like to nit-pick which statistics are relevant but I’m going to bring this up anyway. Montembeault’s stats by month (GS = Games Started) (W-L-OT-SO) October: GS 7 - 3-4-0-0 - 3.67 GAA - .891 SV % November: GS 10 - 3-6-2-0 - 2.82 GAA - .900 SV % December: GS 12 - 8-4-0-0 - 2.53 GAA - .909 SV % January: GS 8 - 3-4-1-0 - 3.40 GAA - .889 SV % February (4 Nations): GS 6 - 4-3-1-0 - 2.41 GAA - .899 SV % March - 6 GS - 4-0-2-0 - 2.60 GAA - .906 SV % Two things that stand out: 1) Montembeault’s best month statistically was December, when he played the most games. 2) His other best month has been March, where he is undefeated in regulation, and he has only played 6 games this far. The Habs have 5 games left in March. Dobeš will likely get a game, so he will play 10 games in March. Dobeš will have played 4 games in March. Let’s see what 4/14 equals. Okay I see. Dobeš will have started 28.6% of the games this month instead of the golden 30%. Surely the fact that, once again, the Habs are fighting for a playoff spot may factor into the reason the Habs find themselves 1.4% below that threshold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Since I don't agree that Monty lets in 1-2 questionable goals per game as a matter of course, I don't accept the premise that his last couple of starts have been representative of his play. He is 7th overall in saves above expected, so the stats seem to bear this out. NHL Goalie Advanced Stats 2024-2025 To say that Monty is a legit #1 does not entail saying that he should be starting 60+ games per season. As I've noted a few times, his current season workload is way higher than in any past year of his career. The logical conclusion is NOT that he's 'truly' a mediocre goalie who has somehow fooled everyone, but that he may, indeed, be flagging due to overuse. I still have a weird feeling he's going to show up big tonight. But we need to rest him thereafter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 25 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Since I don't agree that Monty lets in 1-2 questionable goals per game as a matter of course, I don't accept the premise that his last couple of starts have been representative of his play. He is 7th overall in saves above expected, so the stats seem to bear this out. NHL Goalie Advanced Stats 2024-2025 To say that Monty is a legit #1 does not entail saying that he should be starting 60+ games per season. As I've noted a few times, his current season workload is way higher than in any past year of his career. The logical conclusion is NOT that he's a mediocre goalie but that he may, indeed, be flagging due to overuse. I still have a weird feeling he's going to show up big tonight. But we need to rest him thereafter. It’s almost like the chicken and the egg argument because what I am noticing is that it is generally people who have thought rather highly of Montembeault in the past who are saying that he has let in weak goals lately and that means he is fatigued. Is he fatigued or is he simply that level? If you were someone who didn’t think highly of Montembeault throughout his career, you’re not going to think as much of the weak goals. Montembeault has let in many softies over his career. The goals above expected statistic isn’t perfect in this specific scenario because while it does take into consideration weak goals, I never said that Montembeault isn’t capable of making spectacular saves as well. If he makes 10 spectacular saves and lets in one soft goal, the expected goal stat will still show in his favor. Just as an example, perhaps when the team was performing worse, he let in a soft goal but then made many more great saves. This would be versus the past few games where he hasn’t faced many shots (another reason he shouldn’t be fatigued, but I digress). In a small sample size of back to back games, it can’t be said with certainty that those goals are due to fatigue. Sometimes things happen 2 games in a row, and sometimes they happen 20 games apart for reasons that are completely unrelated in both circumstances. I understand that it is late in the season. That for me is the best argument that he could be more tired than the rest of the season. Unfortunately, there are plenty of reasons unrelated to fatigue that these softer goals could have happened. Too many reasons to even get started on listing them. Not to mention that everyone is different and some people even thrive off of higher workloads and facing shots versus no shots. In the end, there is no winning this argument because as you said even if he wins, he should be rested. Like you, I don’t think whether or not he is tired should necessarily be decided simply by the outcome of tonight. If Montembeault wins tonight, I will not ever use it to prove a point. It is a bit of a jump though to say that he has let soft goals in due to fatigue recently and then say that there’s this feeling he will show up big tonight. If fatigue is the reason he has let bad goals in recently, him showing up big simply shouldn’t happen, or it wasn’t necessarily the cause of his bad goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canajun Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 20 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Gallivan was just slightly before my time, but what seems to have separated him from the pack was that - in addition to timing, varying intonations, a feel for the game, etc., which lots of good play-by-play guys possess - he had a genuine interest in the English language. There are a number of contemporary hockey broadcasters and TV commentators I respect, but none have a real skill a turning a memorable phrase. The closest we have is the tiresome Ron MacLean with his endless supply of puns. From the sublime to the asinine. Yes CC, all that and he would get you right into the game by showing his genuine excitement for the action... plus a good helping of east coast folksiness. Bob Cole had it too. Of the current crop, I think Chris Cuthbert is the best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Hes started what... 3 in a row. Tonight is 4. There are 14 games left including tonight. So if the idea is starting goalies play every game in a playoff race, what team has the same goalie making 17 straight starts? Thats where the argument falls apart. Even in playoff races, teams still use their backup from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Habs may possibly ride Montembeault next game against St. Louis as well. They have a back to back against Philly and Carolina later in the week. Philly might be the game Dobeš plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Now that I’m beginning to get pumped for a game rather than amped for a debate, I suppose all we can all do is hope that Montembeault and the Habs have a great game tonight. Islanders are tied 2-2 midway through their game. Rooting for the 🔥s It’s a big one tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Does MSL seem to hurt the confidence of his back ups by favouring Monty ? Dobes has played well enough to earn starts. I guess we will see tonight if the choice was right. I am cheering on Monty as much as anyone here. It would really suck to move away from a top 7 pick AND not make the playoffs. Go Monty Go ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Dobeš is simply happy to play every game he gets to play. I believe that with his attitude during his rookie year. To be clear, I believe Monty should rest, I just don’t see this as being the game based on position in the standing, past decisions, as well as schedule. Another angle that’s overlooked is Monty has been shaky in the two games since the Habs have been playing meaningful games. This is an exaggeration of course because we’ve had many meaningful games but by meaningful, I mean every time we have been inside of a playoff position. There was even a game on January 23rd where it was our first game since having crossed the wildcard boundary and we lost 4-2 to Detroit (Monty had 41 saves on 45 shots). After that, we weren’t in a playoff spot again until the past couple of games where Monty has won one but looked shaky at times and lost one where he looked shaky at times. People say that it’s good for our players to get the experience playing important games and that there’s value to that. There is also value in having Montembeault gain experience playing meaningful games prior to the playoffs (and to a different extent future seasons). I won’t go so far as to say he’s been nervous since we entered a playoff spot, but I did mention the possibility out loud. Here’s a thought: Montembeault has never played a playoff game in the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: Here’s a thought: Montembeault has never played a playoff game in the NHL. He's never played one in the pros, period, as his AHL teams missed the playoffs as well. His last postseason action came in the 2017 QMJHL playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Habs home record: 18-12-4 Avs road record: 19-15-1 With the Islanders loss in overtime, Habs will remain in the playoffs regardless tonight but we could pull away even further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterface Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I hope the Sens and Devils both lose tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Boys are squeezing their sticks a little. Hopefully they loosen up and relax soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 15 minutes ago, Butterface said: I hope the Sens and Devils both lose tonight. Despite the reality that they are facing one another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Habs are turning the puck over in the neutral zone over and over. We have to stop that or we are toast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 MONTEMBAULT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Colorado dominating. Shots are 11-2. Gotta start skating out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Yeah Montreal is being dominated here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 goals and again running around in their own end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Rough first 10 minutes. First 2 shifts looked promising and then they fell apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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