GDT Game #81: Chicago at Montreal @ 7 PM on 14 April; Playoff Clinching Scenario, Demidov Debut

[Prime Minister Koivu]

4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Again...Demidov was slated to go fourth. It was not ridiculous of MSL to assume that one of Suzuki, Caufield, and Laine would score. This whole issue is waaaaay overblown.

 

My impression of Laine is that he is a player who is searching. He knows he has a crazy shot. But what else does he have? I think he is not too sure about that himself. 

The things that I’m complaining about are the exact same things that Winnipeg and Columbus fans complained about. 
 

Laine doesn’t LOOK LIKE he even attempts to battle for the puck and he certainly doesn’t win battles. Laine doesn’t SEEM to give a lot of effort except when he has a shot attempt. 
 

Take that elite shot away and Laine wouldn’t even be in the NHL because he is useless outside of that shot. 
 

Surely my judgement is skewed because I’m frustrated but I’m hardly the first person to complain about Laine being useless

[Commandant]

18 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

Laine was useless last night and he has had other attempts at the shootout and looked terrible. 
 

Laine is clearly a shooter, not a dangler. 
 

Demidov on the other hand was on fire the whole game and has significant dangling skill. 
 

Would I have been happy if Laine scored? Of course,  but predictably he didn’t score

 

Where are these other attempts in the shootout where Laine has looked terrible?  Before last night he had two goals on three shots as a hab (career 14/30).  He's the highest percentage shooter on the team (both in season and career). 

 

If he doesn't shoot and the Habs lose the shootout still, the questions would be why is your highest paid player, and best percentage wise shootout player not shooting?

 

Also even if Demidov shot and scored, thats only a tie, not a win.... you still need the 4th shot (which would probably be whoever of the three is replaced by Laine). 

 

Chicago still had their 3rd shot, plus a 4th shot now (as Laine shooting 4th is likely to just be the same thing he did at 2nd) to score and win it. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

13 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Where are these other attempts in the shootout where Laine has looked terrible?  Before last night he had two goals on three shots as a hab (career 14/30).  He's the highest percentage shooter on the team (both in season and career). 

 

If he doesn't shoot and the Habs lose the shootout still, the questions would be why is your highest paid player, and best percentage wise shootout player not shooting?

 

Also even if Demidov shot and scored, thats only a tie, not a win.... you still need the 4th shot (which would probably be whoever of the three is replaced by Laine). 

 

Chicago still had their 3rd shot, plus a 4th shot now (as Laine shooting 4th is likely to just be the same thing he did at 2nd) to score and win it. 

I was going off of memory regarding Laine and shootout attempts and clearly my memory is shit if those are his stats. 
 

Still, Laine was not good last night and I’m frustrated to hell with his effort. The same frustration and complaints that have dogged Laine his whole career. 
 

Show some passion and battle for that puck

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I thought Laine along with Dobeš and Hutson were our best players in our 1-0 loss to Toronto.

 

It’s apparent that people want him to be a player that they envision rather than accept and appreciate who he really is. It has everything to do with expectations versus reality. He hasn’t been the best this season at 5 on 5, but he does put effort in, he does back check, he does fight for the puck, etc. He’s happy when we win and do well. He’s not just a zombie going through the motions.

 

There are three main players on the team who make boneheaded turnovers ad nauseum in Slafkovský, Matheson, and Laine, and I happen to like all of them. With that being said, it’s definitely a deficiency within their game as it’s almost predictable that they will do it. It can be seen from “above” so obviously. 

 

That does not discount all the positives they bring to the lineup.
 

Frankly, for all of those praising Demidov while criticizing Laine’s effort level, Demidov’s back check, or lackthereof on Carolina’s third goal to take the lead was worse than anything I’ve seen from Laine, so at least use a level playing field when assessing. He literally slowed down versus even coasting and then Carolina’s open player scored.
 

It’s true that many Jets fans and CBJ fans have complained about Laine’s deficiencies but a substantial amount (admittedly not all) of them truly came out of the wood works once he was off their team and was either sent packing or requested to leave.

 

Unless the game on Wednesday is meaningless, we need to ice our best team and Laine is certainly a part of that. 
 

As for the shootout, no problem from my end when it comes to the selections, just easy to feel uneasy with the result.

[bar]

Something that bothers me about this team is their reluctance to shoot the puck. They try to make the perfect play and then never generate a scoring chance. Sometimes a harmless shot can bounce around and generate a goal or scoring chance.

 

Also, the players gotta stop treating the puck like its a bomb and panicing with it in their own end. Its frustrating seeing team drive to habs D zone, get some chances, just to see the habs flip the puck out so the other team can regroup and go again.

 

I know this isn't great insight, it's just some stuff that's make me yell at my pc screen.

 

Am I the only one who's not really sold on Monty as a big time goalie? He seems to let in these weak goals at the worst time. I appreciate the work load he gets because of Montreals bend but dont break defence, and panicing with the puck, but I feel like he lets in a soft every other game.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

33 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I thought Laine along with Dobeš and Hutson were our best players in our 1-0 loss to Toronto.

 

It’s apparent that people want him to be a player that they envision rather than accept and appreciate who he really is. It has everything to do with expectations versus reality. He hasn’t been the best this season at 5 on 5, but he does put effort in, he does back check, he does fight for the puck, etc. He’s happy when we win and do well. He’s not just a zombie going through the motions.

 

There are three main players on the team who make boneheaded turnovers ad nauseum in Slafkovský, Matheson, and Laine, and I happen to like all of them. With that being said, it’s definitely a deficiency within their game as it’s almost predictable that they will do it. It can be seen from “above” so obviously. 

 

That does not discount all the positives they bring to the lineup.
 

Frankly, for all of those praising Demidov while criticizing Laine’s effort level, Demidov’s back check, or lackthereof on Carolina’s third goal to take the lead was worse than anything I’ve seen from Laine, so at least use a level playing field when assessing. He literally slowed down versus even coasting and then Carolina’s open player scored.
 

It’s true that many Jets fans and CBJ fans have complained about Laine’s deficiencies but a substantial amount (admittedly not all) of them truly came out of the wood works once he was off their team and was either sent packing or requested to leave.

 

Unless the game on Wednesday is meaningless, we need to ice our best team and Laine is certainly a part of that. 
 

As for the shootout, no problem from my end when it comes to the selections, just easy to feel uneasy with the result.

 

Laine is on a 32-goal pace, pro-rated for 82 games. I personally find it hard to sneeze at that kind of goal-scoring prowess. And I think the impression that he doesn't care is partly an offshoot of his skating style, which is very much of the 'Mario Lemieux' variety in the sense that he appears to be gliding around without effort - but when you look carefully you notice that he's covering a fair bit of ground. 

 

All the same, it's true that he is basically a PP specialist. To me, you can carry a guy like that provided he is on a reasonable contract and you don't expect too much out of him.

 

Expectations are the problem, and on two levels. One is contractual expectations: I doubt he will be too happy to take a big haircut on his next deal. He is making almost $9 mil and is probably worth 5.

 

The other problem is fan expectations. He probably wants $8-9 mil because he's PATRICK LAINE. And fans want him to play like an elite forward because he's PATRICK LAINE. But it seems like PATRICK LAINE no longer exists. What we have instead is this guy: a soft, often-injured, one-dimensional PP shooting machine.

 

Personally, I would try to re-up him at $5-6 mil this summer IF MSL and Suzuki report that he is good in the room and a well-liked member of the team. I'd have trouble paying more than 6.  

 

[Commandant]

I dont think the team is reluctant to shoot and looks for the perfect play.  In fact i think the opposite is the issue.

 

The team has been getting a ton of shot attempts lately but not many shots on goal.  Their shots are being blocked or going wide at a higher than normal rate.  This seems to indicate shooting at bad times/angles, not trying to set up something perfect.

[Commandant]

4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Laine is on a 32-goal pace, pro-rated for 82 games. I personally find it hard to sneeze at that kind of goal-scoring prowess. And I think the impression that he doesn't care is partly an offshoot of his skating style, which is very much of the 'Mario Lemieux' variety in the sense that he appears to be gliding around without effort - but when you look carefully you notice that he's covering a fair bit of ground. 

 

All the same, it's true that he is basically a PP specialist. To me, you can carry a guy like that provided he is on a reasonable contract and you don't expect too much out of him.

 

Expectations are the problem, and on two levels. One is contractual expectations: I doubt he will be too happy to take a big haircut on his next deal. He is making almost $9 mil and is probably worth 5.

 

The other problem is fan expectations. He probably wants $8-9 mil because he's PATRICK LAINE. And fans want him to play like an elite forward because he's PATRICK LAINE. But it seems like PATRICK LAINE no longer exists. What we have instead is this guy: a soft, often-injured, one-dimensional PP shooting machine.

 

Personally, I would try to re-up him at $5-6 mil this summer IF MSL and Suzuki report that he is good in the room and a well-liked member of the team. I'd have trouble paying more than 6.  

 

 

I wouldnt sign him this summer.  I would want to see if his skating and overall game is improved next season based on being further from the injuries as i dont think hes agreeing to 5 or 6 mill in a rising cap environment.

 

Id want to see more before giving what hes likely to ask for.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

35 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I wouldnt sign him this summer.  I would want to see if his skating and overall game is improved next season based on being further from the injuries as i dont think hes agreeing to 5 or 6 mill in a rising cap environment.

 

Id want to see more before giving what hes likely to ask for.

 

Yes, well, I think we agree, just with different emphases. I said would TRY to sign him at 5-6. If, as seems likely, he declines, then Plan B is to see how he does next year and go from there.

 

The problem with Plan B is that Laine strikes me as exactly the type of guy who puts it all together in a contract year, gets paid big bucks, then reverts back to the mean. One headache at a time, though; and if he does have a big year next season, that will be very helpful to us in a year in which we need to do become a serious theat.

[JoeLassister]

I think if you do attempt to try signing Laine at 5-6, he'll request a trade the next morning.

I'd definitely wait until later in the season or even after next season.

[tomh009]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

I dont think the team is reluctant to shoot and looks for the perfect play.  In fact i think the opposite is the issue.

 

The team has been getting a ton of shot attempts lately but not many shots on goal.  Their shots are being blocked or going wide at a higher than normal rate.  This seems to indicate shooting at bad times/angles, not trying to set up something perfect.

Yes. If you look at the shot attempt patterns (on naturalstattrick.org or otherwise), they tend to be from the outside, where they are more likely to be blocked, deflected or go wide.

 

This is the Ottawa game; the hotspot shows the Senators shooting (and scoring!) a lot from close up, the Habs have much less of a concentration of shots near the net. Need to get closer and not just throw the puck on net from the top of the circle.

 

[Commandant]

Yeah the Ottawa game is particularly bad, but I do think it shows recent patterns well.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

19 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Yes. If you look at the shot attempt patterns (on naturalstattrick.org or otherwise), they tend to be from the outside, where they are more likely to be blocked, deflected or go wide.

 

This is the Ottawa game; the hotspot shows the Senators shooting (and scoring!) a lot from close up, the Habs have much less of a concentration of shots near the net. Need to get closer and not just throw the puck on net from the top of the circle.

 

All of our attack comes from the same 4 areas. Not just Ottawa game, this is Montreal’s pattern of attack. &nbsp
 

Ottawa’s map looks like they scramble a lot and create chances from that where Montreal uses set patterns. 

[Colin]

Laine is what he is; he’s always been that. But even here I’d encourage people to pull back and see the bigger picture before running him out of town. Remember Anderson last year? Remember Caufield early on? MSL has always praised patience for people learning a system. It took Anderson over a year to adapt and now he’s integral to the lineup and has been starting games pretty consistently for the Habs to set the tone.
 

Laine is learning - look at his play when he first got here to now. His first games were painful to watch. Yeah, the shot is outstanding, but back then he made pretty much zero effort in any other aspect. I challenge everyone to watch his early games and then recent ones. He *is* better defensively. His core issue, which he’s always had, is competitiveness in tight areas. But even that is better - despite him looking like a perimeter junior hockey player last night. There will be incessant ups and downs for a guy who’s only rediscovering his love for the game.

 

Side note: if Ovie retires after this year (I’d give that a 50/50 right now) they need a big shot winger. And Laine is far more active than Ovie while still being an effective shooter. Laine (50%) retained, Mailloux (whose defence is proportionally worse than Laine’s when taking position into consideration) and a first for Ryan Leonard and whatever contract they need to dump. Washington shouldn’t do it, but I think they’d have to have a serious look.

[hab29RETIRED]

8 hours ago, DON said:

Why?

Because our existing forwards have sucked the last few games in OT and the SO, while Demidov was on fire.

[tomh009]

42 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Because our existing forwards have sucked the last few games in OT and the SO, while Demidov was on fire.

The Habs have had exactly two SO games after the break. Apart from last night, they lost a shootout on 22 March against Colorado by a 2-1 result. Caufield, Suzuki and Dvorak failed, but Laine did score.

 

In OT, their record is 3-4 after the break (yes, they did lose to the Leafs in OT on Saturday).

 

Not major suckage in my view ...

[dlbalr]

5 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

I think if you do attempt to try signing Laine at 5-6, he'll request a trade the next morning.

 

Agreed.  He's not the type to willingly take that steep of a pay cut that early.  He'll want the year to prove he's worthy of a hefty long-term deal.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

The Habs have had exactly two SO games after the break. Apart from last night, they lost a shootout on 22 March against Colorado by a 2-1 result. Caufield, Suzuki and Dvorak failed, but Laine did score.

 

In OT, their record is 3-4 after the break (yes, they did lose to the Leafs in OT on Saturday).

 

Not major suckage in my view ...

That shootout attempt by Caufield against the Avs is etched in my me it was horrible. Last night wasn’t as bad as that, but it as another poor attempt. Makes me wonder if they practice enough. They’ve blown some games in OT when there as an attempt by guys trying to go through the other team - Suzuki last game and Hutson in another. Just high risk plays.